Doing an electrical system from scratch, need some help!

[rbts]

Hey everyone! I joined this forum specifically to ask this question and I hope someone here can help me figure it out.

My wife and I purchased a used 2011 Forest River R-Pod with the intention of doing a light remodel (paint and replacing vinyl floor) and it is now a down-to-the-studs remodel after finding water damage in the floor and walls that wasn't noticeable until the floor was removed.

Anyway, since I have the opportunity to put whatever I want into an empty shell of a camper, I'm doing everything from scratch with new components since the original systems looked awful, maintenance heavy and childishly wired in my opinion. We're going for a low energy solar/shore power setup thats as maintenance free as possible.

I've done literal days of research now and think I have it all figured out except for one detail. Without specifications (since I've only decided on one component), here's what I've planned:

Solar panels (wattage TBD)
Solar charge controller
Spartan Power 2200w inverter/charger (also includes a transfer switch): ***Link Removed***
AGM batteries (probably two 6V, haven't calculated my needs yet).

What I'm stuck on is probably the simplest part of the setup, the distribution panel. Initially I had trouble because I didn't even know the right keywords to search for, and could only find residential sized breaker panels.

The problem I'm having now is that I can find extremely few options that DON'T include a converter/charger. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I'll be needing one with the inverter/charger I've chosen as our camper will be connected to the 30amp shore power for the majority of our trips.

I've currently found these two that I think complete the system, providing a DC panel and an AC panel in compact form without also adding in a converter/charger:

***Link Removed***
***Link Removed***


Will either of these work to complete the system, am I missing something, or is there a better product I should be looking for?

[theoldwizard1]

SoundGuy wrote:
All this is "going in the right direction"? For someone who says he "mostly" camps with shore power? :S I suppose you'll be helping the OP to pay for all this stuff too, eh? :W

But all this "techno speak" is FUN, and you are correct, it is NOT MY MONEY !

SoundGuy wrote:
Good grief, for the cost of all this the OP would be better to put his $$ into more battery reserve IF he finds he needs it and perhaps later add a stand alone 1000 watt inverter if he wants to run a toaster or coffee machine those few times each season he may camp without shore power, just as I do. This need not be any more complicated nor expensive than this. 🙂

There you go being logical !

[time2roll]

OK I understand you want all that equipment for ease of use. Pace yourself. Get the RV panel with converter and go camping.

Then start completing your plan to add the inverter and solar. Besides that I am an advocate for separate components so that if one item fails it is far easier to diagnose, adapt, bypass and repair. So I recommend a separate stand alone inverter, separate transfer switch(s), separate charging system. This feeds right back into just get the RV electric panel with converter to do the charging.

You can still enjoy the travelling, outdoors and some nature without toast for a few days. Besides you can make toast on a skillet with propane. Likewise a dozen ways to make coffee with propane instead of a Keurig.

[donn0128]

rbts wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Why do you want an inverter charger? Are you planning to run everything on 120VAC instead of 12VDC? In a RV 12VDC is much more convienent. You already have the battery, so use a converter charger of your choice, make everything 12VDC except the one or two things you think you want as 120VAC.
In a small RV like your RPod you will not have enough space to put enough batteries to run much on 120VAC.

The inverter is for the ability to run some AC appliances for short amounts of time while not plugged in to shore power (laptop charger/toaster/etc.) I know DC is far more efficient, but my goal is to make everything as versatile and painless a system as possible.

OK, lets assume you want to make toast. My toaster is rated at 1100 watts@120VAC. That translates to 11,000 watts @12VDC. Your fooling yourself if you think you could actually do that and still have battery power enough to run lights, water pump, and control power for the refer. RPods are pretty small and you simply do not have enough space for that many batteries nor roof space for solar panels. Make toast in the oven, make coffee on a stove top coffee maker. There is nohing 120VAC that you need when boondocking. If you want to watch TV a simple 25 dollar plug in inverter will do.
I think since you still at the planning stage that you need to sit down, make an honest assessment of your needs. Take each 120VAC appliance you think you want to power and calculate how many 12VDC amps that it will use. Remember you should never dischaege a battery below about 50% meaning a battery with 200AH capacity you should only use around 100AH before recharge. Second you need to calculate how you are going to draw XXX amps out of a battery per minute and how big everything is going to need to be. Heck, a 2000 watt inverter needs 2ga wire at minimum. Your going to want a lot of 0ga wire. And that stuff is expensive. Just price it out to see the falicy of your idea in such a small RV.
Definitely not trying to be mean, but trying to get you to open your eyes and not make a huge mistake.

[SoundGuy]

rbts wrote:
Solar panels (wattage TBD)
Solar charge controller
Spartan Power 2200w inverter/charger (also includes a transfer switch): ***Link Removed***
AGM batteries (probably two 6V, haven't calculated my needs yet).

theoldwizard1 wrote:
First, I think you are going in the right direction ! If you are going to have an inverter it should be the "hub" of your power distribution system. The built in transfer switch will make things easier. You might want to look at Samlex inverter/chargers only because they are designed to accept generator AND solar input directly into the inverter/charger.

Check out Blue Seas Distribution Panels. Theses are marine distribution panels for both DC and AC. Probably a bit more expensive than typical RV panels, but they are well built.

The only 6V (golf cart) AGM batteries I have seen are Trojan Reliant T105-AGM. Not cheap.

All this is "going in the right direction"? For someone who says he "mostly" camps with shore power? :S I suppose you'll be helping the OP to pay for all this stuff too, eh? :W

Good grief, for the cost of all this the OP would be better to put his $$ into more battery reserve IF he finds he needs it and perhaps later add a stand alone 1000 watt inverter if he wants to run a toaster or coffee machine those few times each season he may camp without shore power, just as I do. This need not be any more complicated nor expensive than this. 🙂

[theoldwizard1]

rbts wrote:
I know I'm a classic case of a newbie wanting all the bells and whistles before the experience. While the trailers maiden voyage will be largely shore power sites, we're planning for shorter boondocking trips after, so I'm going for a system that will seamlessly move between both.

I strongly recommend that you consider a DC-DC charging system so that when boondocking your batteries will be recharged while you are driving to your next destination. Read this regarding charging a house battery from a vehicle alternator.

DC-DC battery charging

The other way to recharge your house batteries while driving is small (1000W?) inverter in the tow vehicle and a standard 120VAC extension cord connecting to a pigtail wired to the inverter charger in the trailer. Sounds crazy, but it works.

[rbts]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

rbts wrote:

Solar panels (wattage TBD)
Solar charge controller
Spartan Power 2200w inverter/charger (also includes a transfer switch): ***Link Removed***
AGM batteries (probably two 6V, haven't calculated my needs yet).

First, I think you are going in the right direction ! If you are going to have an inverter it should be the "hub" of your power distribution system. The built in transfer switch will make things easier. You might want to look at Samlex inverter/chargers only because they are designed to accept generator AND solar input directly into the inverter/charger.

rbts wrote:
What I'm stuck on is probably the simplest part of the setup, the distribution panel. Initially I had trouble because I didn't even know the right keywords to search for, and could only find residential sized breaker panels.

Check out Blue Seas Distribution Panels. Theses are marine distribution panels for both DC and AC. Probably a bit more expensive than typical RV panels, but they are well built.

The only 6V (golf cart) AGM batteries I have seen are Trojan Reliant T105-AGM. Not cheap.

Thank you! I've been looking at Blue Sea/Paneltronics this morning because I'm a sucker for design, though it is a steep price.

I'll check out those inverters, I haven't ordered the Spartan yet, though reviews and reports say it works wonderfully with solar and generator, and in the price point not much seems to offer the same surge capability and other features.

[theoldwizard1]

Matt_Colie wrote:
You will need separate AC and DC panels, I would suggest that you actually do three panels:
AC shore power
AC inverter power
DC

There is some logic there, but it certainly complicates the build ! A person with good "common sense" will know not to turn on the A/C or the toaster AND the coffee pot when on inverter power. Or they will learn quickly !

[rbts]

diazr2 wrote:
My opinion is you are putting in a lot of components that you will not use. The stuff you are installing is mostly used for boon-dockers who spend days off the grid. Also the more electronics you install the more things that will go wrong down the road. I once installed an inverter . It was pretty much a waste of money. When it wasn't beeping at me that there wasn't enough power in the batteries to run what I wanted to run it would just down right not work. So simplification just don't use one. I rarely camp off grid. When I do I just use 12 V power and a small generator.

I know I'm a classic case of a newbie wanting all the bells and whistles before the experience. While the trailers maiden voyage will be largely shore power sites, we're planning for shorter boondocking trips after, so I'm going for a system that will seamlessly move between both. I've done a lot of power calculations for the necessities and already know we can fit a battery bank that will provide that.

I'd rather have solar for modest needs than a generator for luxury needs.

[theoldwizard1]

rbts wrote:

Solar panels (wattage TBD)
Solar charge controller
Spartan Power 2200w inverter/charger (also includes a transfer switch): ***Link Removed***
AGM batteries (probably two 6V, haven't calculated my needs yet).

First, I think you are going in the right direction ! If you are going to have an inverter it should be the "hub" of your power distribution system. The built in transfer switch will make things easier. You might want to look at Samlex inverter/chargers only because they are designed to accept generator AND solar input directly into the inverter/charger.

rbts wrote:
What I'm stuck on is probably the simplest part of the setup, the distribution panel. Initially I had trouble because I didn't even know the right keywords to search for, and could only find residential sized breaker panels.

Check out Blue Seas Distribution Panels. Theses are marine distribution panels for both DC and AC. Probably a bit more expensive than typical RV panels, but they are well built.

The only 6V (golf cart) AGM batteries I have seen are Trojan Reliant T105-AGM. Not cheap.

[diazr2]

My opinion is you are putting in a lot of components that you will not use. The stuff you are installing is mostly used for boon-dockers who spend days off the grid. Also the more electronics you install the more things that will go wrong down the road. I once installed an inverter . It was pretty much a waste of money. When it wasn't beeping at me that there wasn't enough power in the batteries to run what I wanted to run it would just down right not work. So simplification just don't use one. I rarely camp off grid. When I do I just use 12 V power and a small generator.

[2oldman]

rbts wrote:
I know DC is far more efficient, but my goal is to make everything as versatile and painless a system as possible.

Efficiency is a moot point when you're pumping 1200w into a toaster. 12v appliances like coffee makers are painfully slow because they don't draw the wattage needed to work as well as the 120v versions. If they did you'd have to hook them up with 4/0 cables.

You're good.

[Matt_Colie]

RBTS,

You will not find what you seek in the normal RV stock. What you want if a common marine item. Or, with a drill press and layout tools, roll your own. You will need separate AC and DC panels, I would suggest that you actually do three panels:
AC shore power
AC inverter power
DC

I did a lot of boat work before the depression, and I did several performance cruisers (retired racing sloops) this way and it was well received.

Advice: Run all the copper you can imagine now. If you think you might ever want another circuit there, but it in now. Copper is cheap when compared to labor.

Matt

[drsteve]

rbts wrote:

donn0128 wrote:
Why do you want an inverter charger? Are you planning to run everything on 120VAC instead of 12VDC? In a RV 12VDC is much more convienent. You already have the battery, so use a converter charger of your choice, make everything 12VDC except the one or two things you think you want as 120VAC.
In a small RV like your RPod you will not have enough space to put enough batteries to run much on 120VAC.

The inverter is for the ability to run some AC appliances for short amounts of time while not plugged in to shore power (laptop charger/toaster/etc.) I know DC is far more efficient, but my goal is to make everything as versatile and painless a system as possible.

If you plan to run stuff like a toaster, microwave, coffee maker, and the like, you better have a large battery bank. Very large.

[rbts]

donn0128 wrote:
Why do you want an inverter charger? Are you planning to run everything on 120VAC instead of 12VDC? In a RV 12VDC is much more convienent. You already have the battery, so use a converter charger of your choice, make everything 12VDC except the one or two things you think you want as 120VAC.
In a small RV like your RPod you will not have enough space to put enough batteries to run much on 120VAC.

The inverter is for the ability to run some AC appliances for short amounts of time while not plugged in to shore power (laptop charger/toaster/etc.) I know DC is far more efficient, but my goal is to make everything as versatile and painless a system as possible.

[rbts]

DrewE wrote:
New members unfortunately can't post links until a few other posts are made (for spam prevention/remediation), so I can't tell which units you're thinking of.

The Progressive Dynamics PD5000 panel or the Parallalax 80D panel would both be perfectly reasonable choices. Bestconverter sells them (and they're good and helpful people to deal with, and quite knowledgable about RV power systems).

It's also reasonable to have separate AC and DC distribution panels if that ends up suiting your installation better. DC fuse panels in just about any size and shape and description are quite easy to find. Small AC panels that are not wired for 240V split phase use are harder to find. In some cases, it might be possible to safely tie the two legs together via main lugs or similar...or just to ignore one of the legs, or something. I suspect you already understand this, but the 120V panel in an RV should keep the ground and neutral independent, like a sub-panel in a house (but unlike the main panel where they are bonded together).

Thank you, thats very helpful! It is only 120V in the trailer and I did not know the ground and neutral should be independent. I also just found the 80D and a bunch of options from Paneltronics which seems to be the premium solution.