fell victim to the scam

[StirCrazy]

so in the fall I saw 310/320 cells go on sale so I decided to order another 4 to make my second battery. problem being is this was a company that never sent the cells out and the delivery date of 3 days ago has come and gone. I did regester a complainte with ali last week and 6 hous after the delivery day passed I got a full refund. so realy the only thing I lost was time.

for you guys who have bought your own cells where have you bought from as we have no real canadian retailers of the cells.

thanks

Steve

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
ya and I know it says it has to be at a spicific voltage to do its balancing... I have to find the littiture, been busy tiling around the fireplace these days off.

just looked it up, cant find out the info what does this look like to you? its a small curent but not sure that means anything.

"Balanced turn-on voltage 3.350 3.400 3.450 V
Balanced turn-on voltage difference 15 M V
Equilibrium mode
Equilibrium current 40 60 M A


Is this somthing like the one you have?
balancer

Looks like the balancer presets for the BMS. The 40-60ma "Equilibrium current" is very low. Being so low, odds are high it's a passive balancer. I'd set it to max. Gets the balancing done faster. Gotta say, with that small of current it's gonna be slow. As for the "Balanced turn-on voltage", wouldn't set it too low because it'll undo a top-balance. There's some debate on the best value. Me, I would never set this any lower than 3.400v. Not sure what "Balanced turn-on difference" is. I would expect it to read, "Balanced turn-off difference", instead. This would be the voltage delta/difference the balancer must reach before turning off balancing functions. I always set ours to 5mv, which is very low. The balancer works much harder/longer, but it's no skin off my back--lol!

The active balancer in the link isn't a Heltec, but it appears to be an exact clone. From all accounts they work just as well as the Heltec. Have to look close, but there's a solder connection/bridge labeled "run" on the circuit board. If you remove the solder bridge and connect a make/break switch you can turn it off and on. I'd keep it off unless the cells are at a high SOC. Otherwise, you can undo a top balance.

BTW, what kind of BMS do you have?

I have the JDB SP04S028-L4S-150A with both uart and bluetooth. I was wondering if I could just put a switch inline with the active charger or just leave the wires there and plug it in when I want it and un plug it when I don't.

[otrfun]

StirCrazy wrote:
ya and I know it says it has to be at a spicific voltage to do its balancing... I have to find the littiture, been busy tiling around the fireplace these days off.

just looked it up, cant find out the info what does this look like to you? its a small curent but not sure that means anything.

"Balanced turn-on voltage 3.350 3.400 3.450 V
Balanced turn-on voltage difference 15 M V
Equilibrium mode
Equilibrium current 40 60 M A


Is this somthing like the one you have?
balancer

Looks like the balancer presets for the BMS. The 40-60ma "Equilibrium current" is very low. Being so low, odds are high it's a passive balancer. I'd set it to max. Gets the balancing done faster. Gotta say, with that small of current it's gonna be slow. As for the "Balanced turn-on voltage", wouldn't set it too low because it'll undo a top-balance. There's some debate on the best value. Me, I would never set this any lower than 3.400v. Not sure what "Balanced turn-on difference" is. I would expect it to read, "Balanced turn-off difference", instead. This would be the voltage delta/difference the balancer must reach before turning off balancing functions. I always set ours to 5mv, which is very low. The balancer works much harder/longer, but it's no skin off my back--lol!

The active balancer in the link isn't a Heltec, but it appears to be an exact clone. From all accounts they work just as well as the Heltec. Have to look close, but there's a solder connection/bridge labeled "run" on the circuit board. If you remove the solder bridge and connect a make/break switch you can turn it off and on. I'd keep it off unless the cells are at a high SOC. Otherwise, you can undo a top balance.

BTW, what kind of BMS do you have?

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
. . . which active balancer did you go with, did your BMS not have active balancing?

Steve

Our JBD 200a BMS has a passive balancer. Most of the popular DIY-type BMS's (like JBD and Daly), along with most budget lifepo4 batteries sold on Amazon use passive balancers. Unfortunately, they're inefficient ("burn" vs. move current), slow (50-150ma) and sometimes only work when there's charge current present. It can take days to resolve significant imbalances.

We purchased a 4S Heltec active balancer and only switch it on to resolve larger imbalances. Specs say it can move up to 5a (5000ma). We've seen it resolve a 200-250mv delta down to 5mv within an hour or two. Pretty quick. The only time we find the need to switch on the Heltec is after we've done repeated, high c discharges from 100% to 10%. We may do these deep discharges a couple times a day during the summer when we run the a/c during breaks on the road (use a dc2dc to charge). With this kind of abuse, the cells tend to drift a bit. We charge the cells to near 100%, then turn on the Heltec. Everything resolves to <5mv in <30 min. (it more or less accomplishes a top-balance).

interesting, Im pritty sure the JBD I goty has active ballancing but now Im going to have to double check.

I wouldn't mind being wrong. Not gonna complain if our JBD indeed has an active balancer--lol! Active would make it a more efficient (moving current vs. burning it). Unfortunately, either way, it's still very slow. So, still need the Heltec. Let me know . . .

ya and I know it says it has to be at a spicific voltage to do its balancing... I have to find the littiture, been busy tiling around the fireplace these days off.

just looked it up, cant find out the info what does this look like to you? its a small curent but not sure that means anything.

"Balanced turn-on voltage 3.350 3.400 3.450 V
Balanced turn-on voltage difference 15 M V
Equilibrium mode
Equilibrium current 40 60 M A


Is this somthing like the one you have?
balancer

[otrfun]

StirCrazy wrote:

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
. . . which active balancer did you go with, did your BMS not have active balancing?

Steve

Our JBD 200a BMS has a passive balancer. Most of the popular DIY-type BMS's (like JBD and Daly), along with most budget lifepo4 batteries sold on Amazon use passive balancers. Unfortunately, they're inefficient ("burn" vs. move current), slow (50-150ma) and sometimes only work when there's charge current present. It can take days to resolve significant imbalances.

We purchased a 4S Heltec active balancer and only switch it on to resolve larger imbalances. Specs say it can move up to 5a (5000ma). We've seen it resolve a 200-250mv delta down to 5mv within an hour or two. Pretty quick. The only time we find the need to switch on the Heltec is after we've done repeated, high c discharges from 100% to 10%. We may do these deep discharges a couple times a day during the summer when we run the a/c during breaks on the road (use a dc2dc to charge). With this kind of abuse, the cells tend to drift a bit. We charge the cells to near 100%, then turn on the Heltec. Everything resolves to <5mv in <30 min. (it more or less accomplishes a top-balance).

interesting, Im pritty sure the JBD I goty has active ballancing but now Im going to have to double check.

I wouldn't mind being wrong. Not gonna complain if our JBD indeed has an active balancer--lol! Active would make it a more efficient (moving current vs. burning it). Unfortunately, either way, it's still very slow. So, still need the Heltec. Let me know . . .

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
. . . which active balancer did you go with, did your BMS not have active balancing?

Steve

Our JBD 200a BMS has a passive balancer. Most of the popular DIY-type BMS's (like JBD and Daly), along with most budget lifepo4 batteries sold on Amazon use passive balancers. Unfortunately, they're inefficient ("burn" vs. move current), slow (50-150ma) and sometimes only work when there's charge current present. It can take days to resolve significant imbalances.

We purchased a 4S Heltec active balancer and only switch it on to resolve larger imbalances. Specs say it can move up to 5a (5000ma). We've seen it resolve a 200-250mv delta down to 5mv within an hour or two. Pretty quick. The only time we find the need to switch on the Heltec is after we've done repeated, high c discharges from 100% to 10%. We may do these deep discharges a couple times a day during the summer when we run the a/c during breaks on the road (use a dc2dc to charge). With this kind of abuse, the cells tend to drift a bit. We charge the cells to near 100%, then turn on the Heltec. Everything resolves to <5mv in <30 min. (it more or less accomplishes a top-balance).

interesting, Im pritty sure the JBD I goty has active ballancing but now Im going to have to double check.

[otrfun]

StirCrazy wrote:
. . . which active balancer did you go with, did your BMS not have active balancing?

Steve

Our JBD 200a BMS has a passive balancer. Most of the popular DIY-type BMS's (like JBD and Daly), along with most budget lifepo4 batteries sold on Amazon use passive balancers. Unfortunately, they're inefficient ("burn" vs. move current), slow (50-150ma) and sometimes only work when there's charge current present. It can take days to resolve significant imbalances.

We purchased a 4S Heltec active balancer and only switch it on to resolve larger imbalances. Specs say it can move up to 5a (5000ma). We've seen it resolve a 200-250mv delta down to 5mv within an hour or two. Pretty quick. The only time we find the need to switch on the Heltec is after we've done repeated, high c discharges from 100% to 10%. We may do these deep discharges a couple times a day during the summer when we run the a/c during breaks on the road (use a dc2dc to charge). With this kind of abuse, the cells tend to drift a bit. We charge the cells to near 100%, then turn on the Heltec. Everything resolves to <5mv in <30 min. (it more or less accomplishes a top-balance).

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

otrfun wrote:
The larger 280-310ah cells are by far the most popular. We're partial to the smaller 200/230ah cells because 4 of these cells, a 200a BMS, heating pads, thermostat, active balancer, etc. will all fit inside a plastic Group 24 battery box. Having a portable (40 lb.), standalone 200/230ah battery that can support max c-rates (charge & discharge) down to 0f, is a big plus for us. Two of these will fit inside our truck camper's existing battery compartment (sized for 2 Group 27 batteries) with only some small modifications to the ends of the battery boxes.

I can get that, my issue is I have a old camper (1991) that only has one compartment for a single battery, but that holds my leveling blocks and water hose just perfectly haha. I have a useless space by the furnace and fridge that will just fit (width and hight) a single battery made from the larger size cells. with the battery installed there is still room to put an inverter in front of it if I decide and this space is about 1 foot from my power center so all the wiring will be short.

Ref using the battery compartment for storage, yup, old habits die hard--lol!

You're fortunate to have the option to locate everything in the same general area. Reduces cable losses and makes installation and maintenance easier.

Our TC would have required extensive modifications to do the same. We elected instead to locate everything (lifepo4, inverter, dc2dc, etc.) throughout our TC and use 4/0 and 2/0 cable to keep losses to a minimum. Completed everything about 18 mo. ago. Everything's been working flawlessly. That 200ah lifepo4 is a powerhouse. Use it to power the microwave and a/c all the time.

ya, well I kinda took away the real storage to get the two 6V GC batteries in there so I had a little tiny storage where the old battery was, so I think of it as gaining my storage back haha

which active balancer did you go with, did your BMS not have active balancing?

Steve

[otrfun]

StirCrazy wrote:

otrfun wrote:
The larger 280-310ah cells are by far the most popular. We're partial to the smaller 200/230ah cells because 4 of these cells, a 200a BMS, heating pads, thermostat, active balancer, etc. will all fit inside a plastic Group 24 battery box. Having a portable (40 lb.), standalone 200/230ah battery that can support max c-rates (charge & discharge) down to 0f, is a big plus for us. Two of these will fit inside our truck camper's existing battery compartment (sized for 2 Group 27 batteries) with only some small modifications to the ends of the battery boxes.

I can get that, my issue is I have a old camper (1991) that only has one compartment for a single battery, but that holds my leveling blocks and water hose just perfectly haha. I have a useless space by the furnace and fridge that will just fit (width and hight) a single battery made from the larger size cells. with the battery installed there is still room to put an inverter in front of it if I decide and this space is about 1 foot from my power center so all the wiring will be short.

Ref using the battery compartment for storage, yup, old habits die hard--lol!

You're fortunate to have the option to locate everything in the same general area. Reduces cable losses and makes installation and maintenance easier.

Our TC would have required extensive modifications to do the same. We elected instead to locate everything (lifepo4, inverter, dc2dc, etc.) throughout our TC and use 4/0 and 2/0 cable to keep losses to a minimum. Completed everything about 18 mo. ago. Everything's been working flawlessly. That 200ah lifepo4 is a powerhouse. Use it to power the microwave and a/c all the time.

[StirCrazy]

so this turned out to be a blessing in the end, I found another place to order from that yes will be double the price but still comparable to two high quality 6V deep cycles, maybe even a little cheeper. the other ones I figured I would recive B grade cells which would probably be perfectly fine for what I need in the camper, so considering the new ones are A grade direct from eve thats reasonable for a price.

I am going to down size to 280AH cells and get the new K ones from eve. this version has a working temp range of -30C to +60C so even PT would be able to use these ones aside from a week or two a year 😉

[StirCrazy]

otrfun wrote:
The larger 280-310ah cells are by far the most popular. We're partial to the smaller 200/230ah cells because 4 of these cells, a 200a BMS, heating pads, thermostat, active balancer, etc. will all fit inside a plastic Group 24 battery box. Having a portable (40 lb.), standalone 200/230ah battery that can support max c-rates (charge & discharge) down to 0f, is a big plus for us. Two of these will fit inside our truck camper's existing battery compartment (sized for 2 Group 27 batteries) with only some small modifications to the ends of the battery boxes.

I can get that, my issue is I have a old camper (1991) that only has one compartment for a single battery, but that holds my leveling blocks and water hose just perfectly haha. I have a useless space by the furnace and fridge that will just fit (width and hight) a single battery made from the larger size cells. with the battery installed there is still room to put an inverter in front of it if I decide and this space is about 1 foot from my power center so all the wiring will be short.

[otrfun]

The larger 280-310ah cells are by far the most popular. We're partial to the smaller 200/230ah cells because 4 of these cells, a 200a BMS, heating pads, thermostat, active balancer, etc. will all fit inside a plastic Group 24 battery box. Having a portable (40 lb.), standalone 200/230ah battery that can support max c-rates (charge & discharge) down to 0f, is a big plus for us. Two of these will fit inside our truck camper's existing battery compartment (sized for 2 Group 27 batteries) with only some small modifications to the ends of the battery boxes.

[StirCrazy]

S Davis wrote:
I purchased 28 EVE cells from Docan Power in two purchases. The cells are excellent, but they are the LF280N which is the previous model. There have been reports of bloated cells and slightly low capacity with the newer LF280K.

I was looking at there site, they don't have the fancy lazer duel bolt conectors but they do have the 304AH which will match my current battery.

which company has been shipping new 280K's that are bloated and don't pull capacity, I have head nothing but good about them , but they were all new cells.

[S_Davis]

I purchased 28 EVE cells from Docan Power in two purchases. The cells are excellent, but they are the LF280N which is the previous model. There have been reports of bloated cells and slightly low capacity with the newer LF280K.

[StirCrazy]

time2roll wrote:

otrfun wrote:
The 230ah and 280ah EVE cells sold at 18650batterystore.com (located in Atlanta GA and ship worldwide) would be my hands-down, first choice in terms of price, cell quality, and excellent after the sale support. Check-out the two threaded hole terminals on these cells. Larger contact area and much better mechanical support vs. the typical one-hole terminals used on the vast majority of cells.

+1 to seek out these factory terminals with two points of attachment.

ya I was looking at these, a lot of companys are going to lazer welded studs on top now, but this is a whole new game ')