Freaking RV manufacturers

[afidel]

Just a small rant, after coming out to my trailer this morning to find it at a balmy 58 degrees I started troubleshooting. Checked for Propane, checked the control circuit, finally pulled the panel to the back of the heater. After checking the electrical was good to the sensors and blower and valve I decided to just hit the reset on the control board. Sure enough that fixed the issue. How do you make a control board that needs to measure 2 sensors and control 2 valves that crashes! I would fail a first year EE student that managed to do something that stupid. Anyway glad that I had 2x electrical heaters under automation control so it didn't get down to freezing in the trailer last night, while the pipes are winterized I have a bunch of food in jars in the pantry because I like to make myself lunch without going into the house.

[StirCrazy]

way2roll wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

way2roll wrote:

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

:R

When pigs fly on their own and "man" has completely stopped "climate change".

Business is very complicated, just because there is "competition", does not necessarily mean lower cost, nor does it mean better quality or a combination of both.

Take a good hard look at automobiles, we have plenty of foreign brand names who have dipped their feet into the US market.. If you were correct, the domestic name brands would have 100% perfect builds and be affordable for all.

The truth is even the foreign brands build junk, they ship the junk to us and it is not priced any cheaper than the domestic brand names...

Wrong. In the 70's this is exactly what happened. The US auto industry was completely overtaken by foreign brands forcing US to step up in terms of quality, efficiency, longevity and price. The US auto industry would not be where it is today had that not happened. The rest is rhetoric and moot because it actually happened. You could also name a dozen other products where this occurred.

If someone creates a better and cheaper product people will buy it. It's only a matter of time.

Were they realy that much better, I say no, but let me explain my reasioning. in the early 70's epa or what ever they were clled then and the goverment made some big changes and mandated fuel milage requirments and also horsepower limits that afected registration rates, insurance and taxes (not sure if this was universal in both Canada and the US or in every state) so this put the North american industry into a state of flux and redesign, cars started getting smaller in size and engines, which also ment new engine designs. the invsion of the Forgine car maers was perfectly timed as which ford, cheve and dodge were having new design blues the normal quality toyotas, datsun, honda, ect showed up. these cars were not new and were on there 3, 4 or more generation of the same platform so the bugs were worked out, and it was only in the early 80's when the north american companies caught up and passed them.

To me it was to be expected and nothing to do with bad quality, but rather new product blues, like you see any time they bring out a new engine design or such.

[LouLawrence]

way2roll wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

way2roll wrote:

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

:R

When pigs fly on their own and "man" has completely stopped "climate change".

Business is very complicated, just because there is "competition", does not necessarily mean lower cost, nor does it mean better quality or a combination of both.

Take a good hard look at automobiles, we have plenty of foreign brand names who have dipped their feet into the US market.. If you were correct, the domestic name brands would have 100% perfect builds and be affordable for all.

The truth is even the foreign brands build junk, they ship the junk to us and it is not priced any cheaper than the domestic brand names...

Wrong. In the 70's this is exactly what happened. The US auto industry was completely overtaken by foreign brands forcing US to step up in terms of quality, efficiency, longevity and price. The US auto industry would not be where it is today had that not happened. The rest is rhetoric and moot because it actually happened. You could also name a dozen other products where this occurred.

If someone creates a better and cheaper product people will buy it. It's only a matter of time.

This is why Toyota just became the #1 selling vehicles in the US. For the 1st time in history, GM slipped to #2. If you build it, they will come.

[RLS7201]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
My daughter's water heater on her 6 year old Jayco has never worked correctly since the day they bought it. It will start up, run up to temp, shut off and not restart. Cycle the power switch and it runs another cycle. Various sensors, switches and igniters have been replaced. At least the light on the control panel by the kitchen sink blinks to tell you the water heater did NOT restart. Sigh !

If you are talking about an Atwood water heater, the problem could well be the primary 140° thermostat. If the heater shuts down on the ECO 180° thermostat, it will do exactly as you indicate. Set of thermostats are about $15.00.

Richard

[nickthehunter]

way2roll wrote:

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

Yes, that must be why we have such a over stock of chips in this country (tongue firmly planted in cheek), cause the imports "are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete."

[way2roll]

Gdetrailer wrote:

way2roll wrote:

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

:R

When pigs fly on their own and "man" has completely stopped "climate change".

Business is very complicated, just because there is "competition", does not necessarily mean lower cost, nor does it mean better quality or a combination of both.

Take a good hard look at automobiles, we have plenty of foreign brand names who have dipped their feet into the US market.. If you were correct, the domestic name brands would have 100% perfect builds and be affordable for all.

The truth is even the foreign brands build junk, they ship the junk to us and it is not priced any cheaper than the domestic brand names...

Wrong. In the 70's this is exactly what happened. The US auto industry was completely overtaken by foreign brands forcing US to step up in terms of quality, efficiency, longevity and price. The US auto industry would not be where it is today had that not happened. The rest is rhetoric and moot because it actually happened. You could also name a dozen other products where this occurred.

If someone creates a better and cheaper product people will buy it. It's only a matter of time.

[Gdetrailer]

way2roll wrote:

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

:R

When pigs fly on their own and "man" has completely stopped "climate change".

Business is very complicated, just because there is "competition", does not necessarily mean lower cost, nor does it mean better quality or a combination of both.

Take a good hard look at automobiles, we have plenty of foreign brand names who have dipped their feet into the US market.. If you were correct, the domestic name brands would have 100% perfect builds and be affordable for all.

The truth is even the foreign brands build junk, they ship the junk to us and it is not priced any cheaper than the domestic brand names..

Yes, I have been in different foreign brand autos, lots of shoddy cheap poor workmanship in them and folks here are happier than a pig in mud buying one rather than buying a domestic manufacturer brand.

The company I left over a yr ago had brought in a top manufacturing manager who's credentials included top manager at Honda and Toyota.. Doesn't care one squat about the people, only care was to "maximize the profit $ per square ft of manufacturing space".. Yeah, that IS what you are dreaming about there sir.

If you really think other countries build better and cheaper RVs then perhaps you should start an import company to import them, you should be able to make a huge killing if what you say is true. if they are better then you shouldn't have to service them and if they are cheaper and can sell them for less than domestic built RVs then you should have a booming business model.

Other countries may build and sell RVs cheaper, but consider that the wages, working conditions, hrs, cost of living, cost of materials in those countries are not the same.. They don't work 40hr weeks often working many more hrs, get no paid vacation/sick time, get no raises basically get paid a fraction of our standards considered as poverty..

[Grit_dog]

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Well said.

[way2roll]

LouLawrence wrote:
That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

Right. Competition in the marketplace is what fuels better quality and prices. When we start to see foreign RV's being imported that are better made and cost less US manufacturers will change it's process to compete. Until then it's going to be the status quo of paying for shiny gadgets.

[LouLawrence]

That's nonsense. If it was true that not paying MSRP for something made them bad then ever car on the road would be bad as well. Manufacturers and dealers set a high MSRP as the consumer has come to expect a huge discount. The manufacturer and the dealer still make the expected profit when the unit is sold. The consumer simply "feels better" about his amazing negotiating powers!

[Gdetrailer]

afidel wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

bikendan wrote:
As far as I know, RV manufacturers don't make control boards!:h

They also don't make the appliances. Kind of like blaming your Home Builder/Contractor for the HVAC system problems. Doug

Exactly, contractor grade, aka **** shoveled out at the lowest price possible meant to last just long enough for the warranty to have not expired. I blame the RV manufacturers because they've squeezed the suppliers to the point where every possible corner is cut, apparently including making a 4 function board that can crash.

Hmm.. This is like the "kettle calling the pot black?"

Perhaps one should look into the mirror and blame THAT person in the mirror?

Ask the question.. How many RV owners have paid or was willing to pay MSRP or even above for their RV?

The forum at times has been polluted with How many percent off BELOW MSRP is a "good" price..

The fault for the junk in RVs is at the consumer level, the manufacturer simply adjusts costs of building a rig to the price points that the consumer is willing to spend and still retain enough profit to pay the workers, suppliers and overhead and yet have a few messily pennies leftover to pay the owners so they too can afford a roof over their heads..

Consumers are also to blame for all of the faulty electronic junk included in the RV by demanding it has all the latest gadgets which allows the owner to never have to get out of bed to turn lights on or off or adjust the temperature..

My RV is barebones and it is reliable, manual pilot light water heater, manual (although digital) non internet T stat for the furnace and manual A/C switch and adjustments.. Lights are on hardwired switches also. Yep, my RV is a 1984 vintage but with simplicity it is much more dependable.

[Grit_dog]

afidel wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

bikendan wrote:
As far as I know, RV manufacturers don't make control boards!:h

They also don't make the appliances. Kind of like blaming your Home Builder/Contractor for the HVAC system problems. Doug

Exactly, contractor grade, aka **** shoveled out at the lowest price possible meant to last just long enough for the warranty to have not expired. I blame the RV manufacturers because they've squeezed the suppliers to the point where every possible corner is cut, apparently including making a 4 function board that can crash.

You must be a control board expert. I am not. It seems reasonable there would be a reset to me.
If you’re going to keep bitsching, it would help me and others if you explained to by you think this is unacceptable and how the control panel should be constructed.

That is if you’re not just miffed they you had to reset a switch in your hidey hole. Did I read that right, you spend your days in your camper in your driveway? Why is that?

[bucky]

At least it reset. Must have been the deluxe model.

[afidel]

dougrainer wrote:

bikendan wrote:
As far as I know, RV manufacturers don't make control boards!:h

They also don't make the appliances. Kind of like blaming your Home Builder/Contractor for the HVAC system problems. Doug

Exactly, contractor grade, aka **** shoveled out at the lowest price possible meant to last just long enough for the warranty to have not expired. I blame the RV manufacturers because they've squeezed the suppliers to the point where every possible corner is cut, apparently including making a 4 function board that can crash.

[dougrainer]

bikendan wrote:
As far as I know, RV manufacturers don't make control boards!:h

They also don't make the appliances. Kind of like blaming your Home Builder/Contractor for the HVAC system problems. Doug