Ok, I have had a small drip for awhile now.
I thought it was from a hose and have had Cummins look at it several times now.
Today I decided to look at it myself.
This is the mark it leaves after sitting for two days.
I crawled under the unit and the hoses did look dry, and with a flash light shining straight up I found a drip. It is not clear in this photo, but it gives you the location. Starter is to the right (front of the motor home (DP))
So we zoom in a little bit and you can see the drip. When I was under the unit I did not know what the part was, but it turns out it is the bottom of the governor housing.
I went topside and opened the engine compartment and it appears the fuel is leaking from this cover plate.
At first I was concerned with the fact that the bolts holding the plate in place might indicate a heavy spring being held in place by the cover. I now believe it was a warranty safe guard to keep people from playing with the governor settings.
It is quite wet below the plate and not so wet above it. I believe that wind has been blowing the fuel up.
I wiped the part plate clean and find.
I have found it extremely hard to find reference material on the net about Cummins, but I did fine a video on the disassembly of the pump.
Bosch Inline Pump Disassembly Part 1 of 2
I watched the video, there is VERY little conversation or expiation of what is going on but I did capture a screen shot of the cover removed.
My hope is the o-ring has been compressed over time and is leaking. A friend of mine has suggested that the O-rings in the injector pump have been destroyed by the low suffer fuel and I have fuel bypassing the pump into the governor under pressure and that is why I have a leak.
I do use fuel pump lubricant in my fuel.
Has anyone had any experience with this?
I thought it was from a hose and have had Cummins look at it several times now.
Today I decided to look at it myself.
This is the mark it leaves after sitting for two days.
I crawled under the unit and the hoses did look dry, and with a flash light shining straight up I found a drip. It is not clear in this photo, but it gives you the location. Starter is to the right (front of the motor home (DP))
So we zoom in a little bit and you can see the drip. When I was under the unit I did not know what the part was, but it turns out it is the bottom of the governor housing.
I went topside and opened the engine compartment and it appears the fuel is leaking from this cover plate.
At first I was concerned with the fact that the bolts holding the plate in place might indicate a heavy spring being held in place by the cover. I now believe it was a warranty safe guard to keep people from playing with the governor settings.
It is quite wet below the plate and not so wet above it. I believe that wind has been blowing the fuel up.
I wiped the part plate clean and find.
I have found it extremely hard to find reference material on the net about Cummins, but I did fine a video on the disassembly of the pump.
Bosch Inline Pump Disassembly Part 1 of 2
I watched the video, there is VERY little conversation or expiation of what is going on but I did capture a screen shot of the cover removed.
My hope is the o-ring has been compressed over time and is leaking. A friend of mine has suggested that the O-rings in the injector pump have been destroyed by the low suffer fuel and I have fuel bypassing the pump into the governor under pressure and that is why I have a leak.
I do use fuel pump lubricant in my fuel.
Has anyone had any experience with this?
Ok... the old insulation is out and now we need to install the new insulation.
Remember when the old insulation was pulled out it had been glued in and it left a thin layer of foam that the new insulation will not stick to.
The plan is to stick the new insulation to a piece of lauan plywood and than fasten that to the engine housing.
Because of the rear frame of the dog house there is no way to get one piece (2 feet X 56 inches) into the dog house and up on the ceiling. I will create three panels and install one of them at a time.
This insulation was installed before the engine was installed and I cannot reach far enough into the dog house to screw a screw straight up into the ceiling. I can however reach far enough in to screw screws into the frame of the dog house.
So what I will do is screw a piece of 90 degree angle onto the rear cross member of the frame of the dog house to use as a lip to set the three panels on.
Here is the angle
There are two screws that protrude through the ceiling of the engine compartment that needed to be cut off.
Here is the 90 degree angle installed on the dog house frame.
On to building the panels, three pieces of lauan cut to size.
This is a test fit of the lauan pieces, I have spaced the leading edge up with a piece of wood so that when the pieces are installed it will be flush with the ceiling.
I ordered the insulation yesterday and it was here (I had to pick it up)
Here is the insulation out of the box and laid out across the panels.
Now the insulation has been cut to size and stuck to the plywood.
That probably would have been good enough but I used graffer's tape to go around the edges. one piece on top and the edge and a second piece on the edge and back so that the edge actually has two overlapping layers of tape.
Close up.
This stuff is TOUGH stuff. very hard to get off the roll and sticks like you would not believe (thing supper duck tape that can take heat).
Here are the new panels laying beside the old piece of insulation.
So the crowning moment, here are the panels installed. The front slides into the ledge, and then the panel is held up to the ceiling and self drilling screws are used to hold the panel in place (yes I looked to see where the screws would end up, there is a four inch dead space between the top of the dog house and the cabinet in back of the bed. Also remember the old insulation was screwed in place, in fact I used the same screws I took out to put the new insulation in. I also protected the new insulation from the screws with more gaff tape.
In this photo you and see the panel edge sitting on the ledge.
The proof I is in he pudding. I test ran the engine with the RPM raised to 1,000 for 15 minutes and there were no leaks.
I'd like to say this project is done, but it isn't. In the process of removing stuff to get excess I found this.
It was a light for the engine bay, it has power all the time, had no lense or bulb and was connect with a but connector. Obviously the previous owner had been in here, I keep finding stuff like this. I cut it out, I cannot leave this like this.
In my opinion the only way to insure a quality connection is to sober it.
And to use heat shrink tubing to seal the connection.
The light is installed with an on/off switch.
It throws a lot of light, this is what it looks like when the camera meter does not see the bright light.
All done right, no, hot really, the wiring job done on the fuel shut off solenoid is really bad. Do you remember way back when where I described the problem that started this whole problem. if I had done the install myself I wouldn't have spent the last to days installing new insulation. The only thing with the install of the fuel shut off solenoid I will end up not doing is bolting it onto the engine.
I will address that tomorrow and post it in my Fun / Projects / with my 1997 America Dream thread, follow me there.
Remember when the old insulation was pulled out it had been glued in and it left a thin layer of foam that the new insulation will not stick to.
The plan is to stick the new insulation to a piece of lauan plywood and than fasten that to the engine housing.
Because of the rear frame of the dog house there is no way to get one piece (2 feet X 56 inches) into the dog house and up on the ceiling. I will create three panels and install one of them at a time.
This insulation was installed before the engine was installed and I cannot reach far enough into the dog house to screw a screw straight up into the ceiling. I can however reach far enough in to screw screws into the frame of the dog house.
So what I will do is screw a piece of 90 degree angle onto the rear cross member of the frame of the dog house to use as a lip to set the three panels on.
Here is the angle
There are two screws that protrude through the ceiling of the engine compartment that needed to be cut off.
Here is the 90 degree angle installed on the dog house frame.
On to building the panels, three pieces of lauan cut to size.
This is a test fit of the lauan pieces, I have spaced the leading edge up with a piece of wood so that when the pieces are installed it will be flush with the ceiling.
I ordered the insulation yesterday and it was here (I had to pick it up)
Here is the insulation out of the box and laid out across the panels.
Now the insulation has been cut to size and stuck to the plywood.
That probably would have been good enough but I used graffer's tape to go around the edges. one piece on top and the edge and a second piece on the edge and back so that the edge actually has two overlapping layers of tape.
Close up.
This stuff is TOUGH stuff. very hard to get off the roll and sticks like you would not believe (thing supper duck tape that can take heat).
Here are the new panels laying beside the old piece of insulation.
So the crowning moment, here are the panels installed. The front slides into the ledge, and then the panel is held up to the ceiling and self drilling screws are used to hold the panel in place (yes I looked to see where the screws would end up, there is a four inch dead space between the top of the dog house and the cabinet in back of the bed. Also remember the old insulation was screwed in place, in fact I used the same screws I took out to put the new insulation in. I also protected the new insulation from the screws with more gaff tape.
In this photo you and see the panel edge sitting on the ledge.
The proof I is in he pudding. I test ran the engine with the RPM raised to 1,000 for 15 minutes and there were no leaks.
I'd like to say this project is done, but it isn't. In the process of removing stuff to get excess I found this.
It was a light for the engine bay, it has power all the time, had no lense or bulb and was connect with a but connector. Obviously the previous owner had been in here, I keep finding stuff like this. I cut it out, I cannot leave this like this.
In my opinion the only way to insure a quality connection is to sober it.
And to use heat shrink tubing to seal the connection.
The light is installed with an on/off switch.
It throws a lot of light, this is what it looks like when the camera meter does not see the bright light.
All done right, no, hot really, the wiring job done on the fuel shut off solenoid is really bad. Do you remember way back when where I described the problem that started this whole problem. if I had done the install myself I wouldn't have spent the last to days installing new insulation. The only thing with the install of the fuel shut off solenoid I will end up not doing is bolting it onto the engine.
I will address that tomorrow and post it in my Fun / Projects / with my 1997 America Dream thread, follow me there.
Update with pictures as promised.
With Cummins unwilling to look and see if the problem resulted from the leak from last year and the pump costing $8,450, I needed to resolve this myself.
The first thing to do was to eliminate the possibility that I had a high pressure leak soaking the insulation.
I covered the top of the engine from the very rear of the A/C compressor to the very front of the engine with an oil absorbent rag. The injection pump is in front of the A/C compressor and the governor is in front of that, so the whole engine and suspected problem areas were covered.
I then closed up the engine compartment and drove the Motor Home about 15 miles, or twenty minutes, the route went from my storage place to my driveway. The route has several hills where the Motor Home has to work to get up them.
Backed it into my drive way and opened up the engine compartment and found no spots coming from under the rag, only spots where it was hard up against the soaked insulation.
So to orientate you, here we are looking at the rear of the engine.
Move in a little closer
Now it gets interesting, and when I was looking at this I did not realize what I now think it means until I saw the pictures. This is the area above the injection pump where we had the leak a year ago.
And a closer shot of the area.
This area is completely dry now, but to me it looks like the area was hammered upward. This area is directly above the connections that were loose a year ago. I believe this damage is a result of fuel under pressure beading the heck out of the insulation.
This insulation was originally glued in place and than had seven screws with large washers holding it in place.
To get to the screws out the air purge/expansion tank needed to be removed
I had actually had this tank out before as it had developed a leak and I took it out and had it soldered up.
Now I have room to get in to remove the screws holding the insulation in place.
Now I can remove the insulation.
I think there is a little fuel in the insulation.
This is the area that was directly above the governor and the area where I found the drip.
I actually found what might have been a good substitute for this insulation, but I elected to order the correct "under Hood" insulation. It should be here by 10:30 tomorrow. I purchased some lauan plywood that I will mount the insulation to. The original insulation was glued in place and when I pulled it down it left a thin layer of foam that the new insulation will not stick to.
I will have to make several small panels so that I can fit them up over the engine.
As I was dead in the water on this project I flushed the water system, and filled the fresh water tank. I had taken pictures of the valve settings last winter before I winterized other wise I would never have been able to figure out how they should be set now. They still make no sense to me.
Robert is coming over tomorrow to explain it to me.
The hot water heater fires up, which is good. My electronic gauges for the gray and black water no longer read once they are more than half full and the 3/4 mark on the fresh water tank does not light up. Yet another project.
So that is where I'm at right now. I hope to get the panels made up tomorrow and maybe installed.
With Cummins unwilling to look and see if the problem resulted from the leak from last year and the pump costing $8,450, I needed to resolve this myself.
The first thing to do was to eliminate the possibility that I had a high pressure leak soaking the insulation.
I covered the top of the engine from the very rear of the A/C compressor to the very front of the engine with an oil absorbent rag. The injection pump is in front of the A/C compressor and the governor is in front of that, so the whole engine and suspected problem areas were covered.
I then closed up the engine compartment and drove the Motor Home about 15 miles, or twenty minutes, the route went from my storage place to my driveway. The route has several hills where the Motor Home has to work to get up them.
Backed it into my drive way and opened up the engine compartment and found no spots coming from under the rag, only spots where it was hard up against the soaked insulation.
So to orientate you, here we are looking at the rear of the engine.
Move in a little closer
Now it gets interesting, and when I was looking at this I did not realize what I now think it means until I saw the pictures. This is the area above the injection pump where we had the leak a year ago.
And a closer shot of the area.
This area is completely dry now, but to me it looks like the area was hammered upward. This area is directly above the connections that were loose a year ago. I believe this damage is a result of fuel under pressure beading the heck out of the insulation.
This insulation was originally glued in place and than had seven screws with large washers holding it in place.
To get to the screws out the air purge/expansion tank needed to be removed
I had actually had this tank out before as it had developed a leak and I took it out and had it soldered up.
Now I have room to get in to remove the screws holding the insulation in place.
Now I can remove the insulation.
I think there is a little fuel in the insulation.
This is the area that was directly above the governor and the area where I found the drip.
I actually found what might have been a good substitute for this insulation, but I elected to order the correct "under Hood" insulation. It should be here by 10:30 tomorrow. I purchased some lauan plywood that I will mount the insulation to. The original insulation was glued in place and when I pulled it down it left a thin layer of foam that the new insulation will not stick to.
I will have to make several small panels so that I can fit them up over the engine.
As I was dead in the water on this project I flushed the water system, and filled the fresh water tank. I had taken pictures of the valve settings last winter before I winterized other wise I would never have been able to figure out how they should be set now. They still make no sense to me.
Robert is coming over tomorrow to explain it to me.
The hot water heater fires up, which is good. My electronic gauges for the gray and black water no longer read once they are more than half full and the 3/4 mark on the fresh water tank does not light up. Yet another project.
So that is where I'm at right now. I hope to get the panels made up tomorrow and maybe installed.
So to tell the story here I need to go back to last year.
I find no record of ever talking about this, but I'm sure that I have somewhere.
Last year I was having problems with the engine not shutting down right after the key was turned off.
Turned out that it was a rather common problem with the 8.3 Cummins engine, and I found a rather good article on it here Fuel Shut Off Solenoid Replacement
There is a new and improved solenoid produced by Cummins.
So while it was there for general maintenance I had them replace it.
I solved the problem of the engine running after the key was turned off.
This was done right before last years race at Bowling Green.
Just out side of Bowling Green last year we pulled into a Loves for fuel and found the back of the Motor Hone covered in fuel and the front of the trailer also covered in fuel.
I called Cummins and in concert with the Loves mechanical the fuel lines to the injector were tightened (they were lose), we got the Motor Home, trailer and engine washed at a Blue Beacon and were on our way.
No more problems.
Now I told that story to tell this one.
I have been having a small drip for some time and on each general maintenance a Cummins I have asked them to look for the problem.
This thread was started because I found the drip on the bottom of the injector, and though I had found the source.
First I thought it was a hose running along the left side bottom of the engine, than found the drip on the bottom of the injector/governor.
Today the weather broke and I spent a good deal of time looking at the problem. The quote of $8,450 for just the pump was an eye opener.
So in poking around and moving wire harnesses around I discovered hidden in the depths of the engine on top of the governor another spot of fresh oil/fuel.
I should mention at this point my noise does not work well and when I took some of the oil/fuel from the bottom of the governor I detected no fuel smell.
So a long shot with the wire harness pulled to one side.
This was well hidden, but certainly gave me hope that it was not coming from the injector pump.
Let's get a little closer.
So where is this coming from, we are now above pretty much everything mechanical.
Directly above this is the air intake running to the turbo on the far side of the engine, and above that completely out of sight unless you bend down into the engine compartment and look up at the top of the dog house is a foam insulation pad.
It is kind of hanging like insulation does with age, but there is some wetness on the intake pipe.
So ... could this be where the oil/fuel is coming from. How is it getting wet?
I looked from the rear of the Motor Home being a contortionist with a flash light an the telephoto zoomed out the way out and on the back side of the air intake there appears to be to fresh streams of fluid.
Sorry for the poor photo, I took many and this was the best one I got.
Note the injector line are dry.
I have two schools of thought now.
One is I have a pin hole leak in a line that is soaking the insulation.
Two is when the lines were loose from the install of the fuel shut off solenoid (and I have no idea why they would have to be loosened to install the solenoid (unless they were in the way of the install)). When the back of the Motor Home was soaked and the front of the trailer was covered in fuel this insulation was soaked also. If this is the case once again having service done for me as proven it is best to do it yourself even if you do not know what you are doing.
The wiring to the solenoid is poor (wires cut to short so they will not fit into the wire loom).
I will be going to Cummins tomorrow and have them look at this, if there is no high pressure leak, I hope they step up and replace the insulation and clean the engine.
It is a hope, but suspect I will not have the result I hope for. I have been very happy with the other work they have performed so will burn no bridges over this.
Thoughts?
I find no record of ever talking about this, but I'm sure that I have somewhere.
Last year I was having problems with the engine not shutting down right after the key was turned off.
Turned out that it was a rather common problem with the 8.3 Cummins engine, and I found a rather good article on it here Fuel Shut Off Solenoid Replacement
There is a new and improved solenoid produced by Cummins.
So while it was there for general maintenance I had them replace it.
I solved the problem of the engine running after the key was turned off.
This was done right before last years race at Bowling Green.
Just out side of Bowling Green last year we pulled into a Loves for fuel and found the back of the Motor Hone covered in fuel and the front of the trailer also covered in fuel.
I called Cummins and in concert with the Loves mechanical the fuel lines to the injector were tightened (they were lose), we got the Motor Home, trailer and engine washed at a Blue Beacon and were on our way.
No more problems.
Now I told that story to tell this one.
I have been having a small drip for some time and on each general maintenance a Cummins I have asked them to look for the problem.
This thread was started because I found the drip on the bottom of the injector, and though I had found the source.
First I thought it was a hose running along the left side bottom of the engine, than found the drip on the bottom of the injector/governor.
Today the weather broke and I spent a good deal of time looking at the problem. The quote of $8,450 for just the pump was an eye opener.
So in poking around and moving wire harnesses around I discovered hidden in the depths of the engine on top of the governor another spot of fresh oil/fuel.
I should mention at this point my noise does not work well and when I took some of the oil/fuel from the bottom of the governor I detected no fuel smell.
So a long shot with the wire harness pulled to one side.
This was well hidden, but certainly gave me hope that it was not coming from the injector pump.
Let's get a little closer.
So where is this coming from, we are now above pretty much everything mechanical.
Directly above this is the air intake running to the turbo on the far side of the engine, and above that completely out of sight unless you bend down into the engine compartment and look up at the top of the dog house is a foam insulation pad.
It is kind of hanging like insulation does with age, but there is some wetness on the intake pipe.
So ... could this be where the oil/fuel is coming from. How is it getting wet?
I looked from the rear of the Motor Home being a contortionist with a flash light an the telephoto zoomed out the way out and on the back side of the air intake there appears to be to fresh streams of fluid.
Sorry for the poor photo, I took many and this was the best one I got.
Note the injector line are dry.
I have two schools of thought now.
One is I have a pin hole leak in a line that is soaking the insulation.
Two is when the lines were loose from the install of the fuel shut off solenoid (and I have no idea why they would have to be loosened to install the solenoid (unless they were in the way of the install)). When the back of the Motor Home was soaked and the front of the trailer was covered in fuel this insulation was soaked also. If this is the case once again having service done for me as proven it is best to do it yourself even if you do not know what you are doing.
The wiring to the solenoid is poor (wires cut to short so they will not fit into the wire loom).
I will be going to Cummins tomorrow and have them look at this, if there is no high pressure leak, I hope they step up and replace the insulation and clean the engine.
It is a hope, but suspect I will not have the result I hope for. I have been very happy with the other work they have performed so will burn no bridges over this.
Thoughts?
