Generator/ Reverse Polarity Question

[TheHound]

Hey folks,

My knowledge on these matters is marginal at best so I am hoping someone here might have some suggestions regarding this issue I encountered today.

I went to test my shiny new Surge Guard 34930 with my 3200 watt inverter genny (using a Surge Guard bonding plug) but I am getting a reverse polarity message and it will not pass power through.

To check further, I bought a 30m to 15f adapter and then plugged in my tester. With the bonding plug inserted it came back with HOT/NEU REV based on the little legend thingy.

When I remove the bonding plug, I get just the middle light (open ground) which I understand is normal with inverter generators.

Very puzzled as all my research said the bonding plug corrects this issue and allows for the use of a SP. Any thoughts? 🙂 Thanks!

[wnjj]

TheHound wrote:

wnjj wrote:
Pic 6 looks like the white wires are on the correct neutral pin on the 30A (right pin when looking at the front of the gen). Then from there, I can't quite tell but it looks like one of those exact wires heads over to the right side of the 20A which is supposed to be HOT.

In summary, the right side of the 30A should connect to the left side of the 20A (white) and the lower left of the 30A should connect to the right side of the 20A (black).

The green and green/yellow wires are fine as they are.

Thank you. Now let's see if I have this correct 🙂

TO DO:
- disconnect black wire from left side of 20 amp which is below the green wire
- disconnect white wire from right side of the 20amp and reconnect to the left side of the 20 amp where the black wire was
- connect black wire to right side of 20 amp where the white one was.
- leave red wire and green/yellow wires as they are

How am I doing? lol

Looks great. Hopefully there's enough slack to do that.

[TheHound]

wnjj wrote:
Pic 6 looks like the white wires are on the correct neutral pin on the 30A (right pin when looking at the front of the gen). Then from there, I can't quite tell but it looks like one of those exact wires heads over to the right side of the 20A which is supposed to be HOT.

In summary, the right side of the 30A should connect to the left side of the 20A (white) and the lower left of the 30A should connect to the right side of the 20A (black).

The green and green/yellow wires are fine as they are.

Thank you. Now let's see if I have this correct 🙂

TO DO:
- disconnect black wire from left side of 20 amp which is below the green wire
- disconnect white wire from right side of the 20amp and reconnect to the left side of the 20 amp where the black wire was
- connect black wire to right side of 20 amp where the white one was.
- leave red wire and green/yellow wires as they are

How am I doing? lol

[wnjj]

Pic 6 looks like the white wires are on the correct neutral pin on the 30A (right pin when looking at the front of the gen). Then from there, I can't quite tell but it looks like one of those exact wires heads over to the right side of the 20A which is supposed to be HOT.

In summary, the right side of the 30A should connect to the left side of the 20A (white) and the lower left of the 30A should connect to the right side of the 20A (black).

The green and green/yellow wires are fine as they are.

[TheHound]

road-runner wrote:
Do the 2 green wires from the 20 amp outlet run to the hour meter? How many wires run to the hour meter? Knowing these two things could help in seeing the big picture.

It's pretty darn crowded in that spot but it looks like I get thin white, green and red wires going to the hour/voltmeter. Cheers!

[road-runner]

enblethen wrote:
Yellow with green strip goes to the silver screw.

The only pics I see the striped wire going to a screw are #1 and #2, which are the same picture. I really don't think I can discern the screw color from the picture. If I were forced to make a choice from just the picture, I'd pick silver. Going against that is that thehound says it's under a brass screw, and when eliminating the other possibilities, the only thing left for it is to be the ground wire. I do have a hard time keeping it all straight in my head, and that's really a serious rats nest in there.

I still want to know what's behind so many of these generators being miswired the same way. Is it random bad workmanship, or is something else behind it? Considering the typical workmanship of RVs, maybe bad workmanship is just simply the answer.

[wnjj]

enblethen wrote:
Yellow with green strip goes to the silver screw.

I respectfully disagree. I think the striped wire is likely the ground. That can be checked with an ohm meter or physically followed to see if it goes to the chassis or ground lug.

The swapped wires are those feeding the left and right side screws on the 20A receptacle.

Pic 1 also shows the green/yellow wire on the 30A receptacle at what looks to be the top (ground) terminal.

[enblethen]

Yellow with green strip goes to the "green" screw. (brain dead)

[wnjj]

road-runner wrote:
The one thing I can say for sure is that the generator you have does not follow the wiring diagram! This means that you/we have to attempt to guess what the builders were trying to accomplish, which opens up a minefield of bad assumptions.

I'm thinking the yellow wire with green strip is the chassis ground wire. You should be able to follow it to confirm that. I'm also thinking that the 20 amp duplex outlet is wired backwards, only because white wires are by convention used for neutral. But that's bringing in an assumption that the builders meant to follow the convention. I'm curious what others looking at it conclude. Do the 2 green wires from the 20 amp outlet run to the hour meter? How many wires run to the hour meter? Knowing these two things could help in seeing the big picture.

I agree with your assessment.

The power comes from the breaker to the 30A, then the black and white are swapped on the 20A downstream receptacle. By convention, black=hot=brass screw and white=neutral=silver screw. The black and white are swapped on the 20A screws. The green wires can probably stay where they are since the generator isn't bonded internally anyway.

Even if that isn't what they intended, we know that swapping the the hot & neutral on either the 30A or 20A will fix the bonding problem and it makes the most sense to fix the one that isn't wired to standards.

[TheHound]

road-runner wrote:
The one thing I can say for sure is that the generator you have does not follow the wiring diagram! This means that you/we have to attempt to guess what the builders were trying to accomplish, which opens up a minefield of bad assumptions.

I'm thinking the yellow wire with green strip is the chassis ground wire. You should be able to follow it to confirm that. I'm also thinking that the 20 amp duplex outlet is wired backwards, only because white wires are by convention used for neutral. But that's bringing in an assumption that the builders meant to follow the convention. I'm curious what others looking at it conclude. Do the 2 green wires from the 20 amp outlet run to the hour meter? How many wires run to the hour meter? Knowing these two things could help in seeing the big picture.

Thanks for your reply. I am going to check which wires run to the hour meter and will report back. Cheers!

[road-runner]

The one thing I can say for sure is that the generator you have does not follow the wiring diagram! This means that you/we have to attempt to guess what the builders were trying to accomplish, which opens up a minefield of bad assumptions.

I'm thinking the yellow wire with green strip is the chassis ground wire. You should be able to follow it to confirm that. I'm also thinking that the 20 amp duplex outlet is wired backwards, only because white wires are by convention used for neutral. But that's bringing in an assumption that the builders meant to follow the convention. I'm curious what others looking at it conclude. Do the 2 green wires from the 20 amp outlet run to the hour meter? How many wires run to the hour meter? Knowing these two things could help in seeing the big picture.

[TheHound]

MrWizard wrote:
never mind, no comment
i need to see bigger pictures

Not sure if this works for you as well but when I follow the link and then click on the picture, I get a zoom option and you can zoom in pretty far. Thanks!

[MrWizard]

never mind, no comment
i need to see bigger pictures

[TheHound]

enblethen wrote:
Yellow wire with stripe should be the floating neutral!

Thanks for the reply. So, based on that what wire do I swap with it on the 30a receptacle?

Cheers!

[enblethen]

Yellow wire with stripe should be the floating neutral!

[TheHound]

Well, I did the deed and will try my best to describe the wiring of these receptacles and hopefully the issue can be identified.

Unlike the pic from the other reverse polarity thread, my panel was a jungle of wires so I took a series of photos that may or may not be of use :R

Thanks a ton. Beer & pizza if you roll through Toronto!

30amp receptacle
- left side top post - SINGLE YELLOW WIRE w/ GREEN STRIPE (brass screw)
PIC 30A LEFT TOP
- left side bottom post - RED (goes to breaker) AND BLACK (brass screws)
PIC 30A LEFT BOTTOM
- right side - TWO WHITE WIRES ON SAME POST (silver screw)
PIC 30A RIGHT SIDE


20amp receptacle
- left side top - GREEN WIRE (silver screw)
- Left side middle - BLACK WIRE (silver screw)
PIC 20A LEFT TOP & MIDDLE
- left side back (corner) - YELLOW WIRE w/ GREEN STRIPE
PIC 20A LEFT BOTTOM
- right side top - WHITE WIRE (goes to parallel plug) (brass screw)
- right side bottom - GREEN WIRE (brass screw)
PIC 20A RIGHT SIDE