Generator sizing issues?

[95jersey]

I have a 2017 Jayco 273 Toy Hauler (30 amp) with a single 13,500 BTU AC (according to their website). It has gas/electric water heater and fridge, micro, 2 (TV's), digital antenna, stereo and LED lights.

I occasionally dry camp and use my Harbor Freight Generator (4000/3200) to run the AC and assorted electronics (water pump, TV, stereo). I try to run the water heater and fridge on gas during these trips. Please no inverter recommendations, not interested in spending the money at this point.

I have run the generator right from the RV power cord as well as tried extension cords (10 guage) to run the generator further from the camper, with mixed success.

With the extension cord, the generator will overload occasionally and "pop the breaker" with the AC on. I have to go outside and reset the fuse. Sometimes this rarely happens and sometimes it happens frequently. I don't get why its so haphazard.

If I don't run an extension cord, it is more reliable, but will still occasionally "pop the breaker". I try to only run the minimal while running the AC such as (lights, water pump, maybe stereo/tv).

The manual says 13,500 BTU AC, but there was an optional 15,000 BTU available from the factory. I bought mine used so not sure which one it has. Also, it never "pops" at start up, it is usually when it has been running for a bit. So it seems the generator has enough power to get the AC going without issue. It is just a random breaker pop for no reason. It never pop's the camper fuse, just the generator.

So few questions...

1)why is the fuse popping more often with an extension cord? how long can you run an extension cord and what size to prevent this?

2)do I need to up size my generator to prevent further overloads? or do I have another issue with the RV?

Harbor Freight has a 4250/3500 and 6500/5500 in my budget. I would rather get the 4250/3500 as it is cheaper/smaller and more quiet, but I don't want to buy it and just have the same issue. They have a 6500/5500 for another $90, but it is another 40lbs heavier and 4db louder.

[George3037]

95jersey wrote:

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

As mentioned before, you don't need a 6500W generator. Way too heavy, noisy, and fuel thirsty to be hauling to the campsite. Also not allowed in many campgrounds due to the noise.
I have 2 generators to choose from for my camping needs. First is the Predator 3500W inverter generator (shown in the above post) and 2nd is a Champion #76533 dual fuel generator rated at 4750/3800W on gas and slightly less on propane. Both are 120V and have a trailer ready TT-30R plug on them. Either will run my TT but of course you have to watch what you turn on as to NOT exceed a 30amp or higher draw for any length of time. The Champ noise level is 68db @ 23' (I measured mine at 62db@ 25') and the Predator noise level is 57db @ 23' (mine measured 54db@25')

[95jersey]

I think I may have found my answers, now that I understand it better. The 6500/5500 has (2) 20 amp and (1) 25 amp outlets. The 4370/3500 has 15 amp outlets. My current generator has 13 amp outlets.

According to google, a 13,500 watt AC takes about 1250 running watts (or 10.4 amps). This gives me 2.6 amp (or about 300 watts) at max. This explains why it is "popping". It is reaching 90% of its max often and simply breaking the circuit.

Based on the above, I should be OK running the AC with the 15amp per outlet generator, but I won't have much if any left over, so for $89 more, the 20/25 amp per outlet generator will give me 2400-3000 running watts (on just one side). Even if I get 85% of this in the real world, this is as much as I need at anytime and they sell them on sale for $400 (or less).

So I have to decide how much money I want to spend and what I want to sacrafice (noise).

[2oldman]

95jersey wrote:
If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

Because even 'experts' like me forget about the fact that cheaper gens do not supply the full rated wattage at one outlet. So, although their advertising isn't lying, it's at best deceiving.

I can't even find the max wattage at one outlet in the manual.

[ScottG]

95jersey wrote:
So just to be clear, the limit is the 13.3 amp per outlet, so moving to even 6500/5500 will be the same issue as the outlet does not exceed 13.3 amp? If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

Bigger, better quality gens have an outlet that is specifically designed to carry the full rated output. It will NOT be a standard 120V outlet.

[95jersey]

So just to be clear, the limit is the 13.3 amp per outlet, so moving to even 6500/5500 will be the same issue as the outlet does not exceed 13.3 amp? If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

[Gdetrailer]

95jersey wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Exactly what generator do you have? Does it include a 30 amp 120v RV connector?

The 4000/3200 HF generators I see split power between a 120/240 twistlock outlet and some 5-20 outlets. Either way you might be only getting half the power due to the split nature of the design.

I have this generator.

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/4000-max-starting3200-running-watts-65-hp-212cc-generator-epa-iii-with-gfci-outlet-protection-63080.html

Yeah, time2roll has hit the nail on the head.

This gen can ONLY supply ONE HALF the rated output on each of the Duplex 120V outlets.

You can ONLY get 1600W or 13.3A from EACH of the 120V Duplex outlets.

You have to think of this gen as having two 120V windings which in order to supply 240V are wired in series fashion (think like a battery where you wire two 6V batteries plus to negative to get 12V).

You ARE lucky that you have been able to operate your A/C from this gen.

NO, you cannot "combine" those outlets to get full rated wattage on 120V only without a MAJOR REWIRE OF THE GEN HEAD.

This IS an issue with any gen which has 240/120 capability that does not have a 120V only type of switch like some of the Champion gens.

Moving up to a higher wattage gen may not help unless you go to the 8750W gen at $599.. I CAN assure you that you DO NOT WISH TO GO WITH THE 8750W gen. It IS LOUD, HEAVY AND THIRSTY.

I have one of these 8750W gens for my whole house power backup, it weighs 235 empty, it is so loud that I use very high quality hearing protection when near it and uses about 6 gallons of gas for 10hrs at half load..

This is what you NEED to get in order to get full wattage on 120V..



Much quieter at 57 DB, lighter weight at 99 lbs, runs 11 hrs at 25% load with 2.6 gallon fuel tank.

Currently $769

[2oldman]

time2roll wrote:
Yes you are basically running on just one side of the generator getting 1/2 the listed power.

Good call!

[time2roll]

95jersey wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Exactly what generator do you have? Does it include a 30 amp 120v RV connector?

The 4000/3200 HF generators I see split power between a 120/240 twistlock outlet and some 5-20 outlets. Either way you might be only getting half the power due to the split nature of the design.

I have this generator.
https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/4000-max-starting3200-running...

Yes you are basically running on just one side of the generator getting 1/2 the listed power.

You want something like this with a NEMA 30-TT connector

https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100233-3400-watt-inverter/

[Gdetrailer]

boogie_4wheel wrote:
Replace the breaker on the generator. It may be a lazy one and it is tripping prematurely.

What is the outlet voltage while the A/C is running? Measure any outlet at/in the trailer.

Wrong answer.

You do not simply RANDOMLY REPLACE stuff without REAL TESTING, that is basically "throwing" your money right down the hole.

And before you or anyone else suggests, you also do not just replace a breaker or fuse with a HIGHER CURRENT BREAKER OR FUSE, they ARE already fitted with the MAXIMUM BREAKER OR FUSE SIZE for the device.

[95jersey]

MrWizard wrote:
The house breaker will only let you draw 30 amps max for a limited sustained period

How ever, a larger generator will allow for more start surge capacity for the A/C

I won't run an RV fridge on 120v electric unless I'm out of propane
That 250w-300w of poorer is better used as extra overload allowance for the A/C

Your situation might be better resolved by installing the micro air starter system on your A/C unit

Just to keep this in mind, the breaker will pop while the AC is running, not starting. It starts fine every time. It could be running fine for hours, then pop out of nowhere in the middle of running without any thing else turned on. It doesn't seem to be a start up issue.

Another thing to keep in mind, if I hook it up to any standard plug on my house with a basic home depot 10/12 gauge cord, it runs fine and never shuts down.

[MrWizard]

The house breaker will only let you draw 30 amps max for a limited sustained period

How ever, a larger generator will allow for more start surge capacity for the A/C

I won't run an RV fridge on 120v electric unless I'm out of propane
That 250w-300w of power is better used as extra overload allowance for the A/C

Your situation might be better resolved by installing the micro air starter system on your A/C unit

[pnichols]

Boomerweps wrote:
To give you an idea of your power usage to compare to available amperage, here's my measurements on my TT:
Fridge 328 watts 2.733 amps
Bathroom fan 40 watts 0.333 amps
Microwave 1230 watts 12.05 amps
AC 1446 watts 12.05 amps
D.C. Inverter at idle batteries charged 14watts 0.117 amps
Water heater 1245 watts 10.38 amps
Toaster 692 watts 5.77 amps
Electric space heater 1500 watts 12.5 amps
Electric griddle 1500 watts 12.5 amps
Single serve coffee maker 800 watts 6.67 amps

Add 'em up, read 'em and weep, but don't go over 30 amps!

Because of the above, I added an extra stand alone receptacle with its own power inlet on my TT. I also run an extension cord separate from the power source to a table under my awning for cooking gear and such. Also I shut off my air conditioner when using the microwave. Those two with the converter (amp draw depending on battery charge status) and fridge and anything else using electricity could put me over 30 amps. Heating elements are always a large draw. Water heater, space heater, cooking elements.

Since we're talking about generators, I guess that means that we're talking about drycamping.

So ....:

1. What combinations of the items on your list do you really have to run at the same time?

AND

2. What is the impact of propane on electrical power usage with regards to your list?

Our 4000 watt built-in generator and propane supply can handle just about any really necessary simultaneous combination from the list.

[95jersey]

time2roll wrote:
Exactly what generator do you have? Does it include a 30 amp 120v RV connector?

The 4000/3200 HF generators I see split power between a 120/240 twistlock outlet and some 5-20 outlets. Either way you might be only getting half the power due to the split nature of the design.

I have this generator.

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/4000-max-starting3200-running-watts-65-hp-212cc-generator-epa-iii-with-gfci-outlet-protection-63080.html

[time2roll]

Exactly what generator do you have? Does it include a 30 amp 120v RV connector?

The 4000/3200 HF generators I see split power between a 120/240 twistlock outlet and some 5-20 outlets. Either way you might be only getting half the power due to the split nature of the design.

[boogie_4wheel]

Replace the breaker on the generator. It may be a lazy one and it is tripping prematurely.

What is the outlet voltage while the A/C is running? Measure any outlet at/in the trailer.