Incandescent bulbs work, LED do NOT work

[Munk888]

Hi. I've searched to the best of my ability folks mentioning why incandescent bulbs work and LED do not work, but I've been fruitless in my endeavor.

I have a 2003 Fleetwood Tioga and only 1 dual light fixture has this issue: incandescent bulbs work fine, but ANY LED that I have tried do not work at all. It is the strangest thing. I've tried multiple combos of LED, LED that work in other fixtures, but still, no life.

Any ideas as to why the LED do not work in just this one fixture? It is the dual light fixture on the port side of the house section, right above the couch.

[wa8yxm]

Same here... Put in a couple of LED marker lights they are polarity sensitive.. one other issue too. about 5 fuses later I figured out the other issue. work great now.

As I and others said. Some add a diode bridge so the polarity is not an issue
Some do not.
There are a couple base designs
The "Bayonet" base (1136/1141 are two examples) you can not "Turn it over" unless you make a 2 part bulb Some companies do that some use bridges and some you have to rewire.

The Wedge base.. Well if they don't work try turning 'em around (My Marker light was like that).

[mich800]

wa8yxm wrote:

pnichols wrote:

However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

Well yes. but LED's come in baically 3 (time many) Types only 3 affect this thread however

Some: as you point out, use a bridge so they work no matter which lead is positive

Some you can turn the lamp over or you plug it into the adapter the other way

Some you have to re-wire the socket.

I have all 3 kinds in this RV.

The "many" refers to Lumens and color temp and design of lamp and so many things that have nothign to do with this thread for me to list.

But as I said the led is like a check valve in a water line. Water only flows if the INLET is "positive" (has pressure) (Yes this too is not correct for electricity but I'm trying to KISS the issue)

If you install a check valve backwards nothing flows
Same for the LED.

I will also add, requiring the correct polarity on a LED bulb does not equal cheap. I have encountered can-bus compatible bulbs that do require to be inserted the correct way. They were not cheap quality.

[maillemaker]

However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

Read the answer to the 2nd FAQ question down from the top at the rvledlites.com website. RV Led Lites sells only high quality LED lites - many of which don't have many of the problems you get with cheap(er) LED lites:
https://rvledlites.com/greggwilsondesigns/full-width/

I have been burned by cheap ebay RV LED lights - they flicker when the water pump comes on, they smell of ozone, and they dim if left on for a long time.

But **** if I'm spending $16 per bulb for lightbulbs.

[wa8yxm]

pnichols wrote:

However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

Well yes. but LED's come in baically 3 (time many) Types only 3 affect this thread however

Some: as you point out, use a bridge so they work no matter which lead is positive

Some you can turn the lamp over or you plug it into the adapter the other way

Some you have to re-wire the socket.

I have all 3 kinds in this RV.

The "many" refers to Lumens and color temp and design of lamp and so many things that have nothign to do with this thread for me to list.

But as I said the led is like a check valve in a water line. Water only flows if the INLET is "positive" (has pressure) (Yes this too is not correct for electricity but I'm trying to KISS the issue)

If you install a check valve backwards nothing flows
Same for the LED.

[Munk888]

Sooo, thanks again all! I opened up another fixture and noticed a white plastic wire plug that has the black and white wires in respective orientation. Pull the problematic fixture out and guess what? No factory looking white Gizmo! But in it's stead, a wire nut! The issue isn't with that soldered ma do dad, but with the actual wires coming INTO the fixture! Clipped, flipped, tested, and Bam! LED work! Now to tidy it all up. I heart you all!

[mich800]

Munk888 wrote:
They look the same! Cept one works with LED, and the other don't...

That doesn’t mean they are the same on the fuse block or power source. Did you check the polarity of both fixtures with a meter?

[Munk888]

They look the same! Cept one works with LED, and the other don't...

[Munk888]

So, finally getting around to working on this, and the wire setups are identical! Let me try to get non-gigantic pics.

[road-runner]

pnichols wrote:

However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

All of mine have this, so I incorrectly assumed it was a standard feature on all of them these days.

[wnjj]

pnichols wrote:
However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

Yep. It's called a diode bridge and is the same device that is used to convert AC to DC. In an AC application, the diode bridge takes the alternating forward and reverse polarity and "converts" it to a single polarity. In the LEDs you refer to, it takes either forward or reversed polarity DC and converts it to forward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge

[pnichols]

wa8yxm wrote:
Electroincs 102
LED stands for Light Emitting Diode.. When FORWARD biased they give off light.

What does Forward Biased mean?

A Diode is kind of like a check valve in a water line (You know what those are right. water only flows one way) Forward Biased means the voltage is applied in such a way as the current (or water in the plumbing example) flows.

However ... quality LED bulbs do have circuitry driving them that doesn't care about the incomng 12 volt polarity.

Read the answer to the 2nd FAQ question down from the top at the rvledlites.com website. RV Led Lites sells only high quality LED lites - many of which don't have many of the problems you get with cheap(er) LED lites:
https://rvledlites.com/greggwilsondesigns/full-width/

[wa8yxm]

Electroincs 102
LED stands for Light Emitting Diode.. When FORWARD biased they give off light.

What does Forward Biased mean?

A Diode is kind of like a check valve in a water line (You know what those are right. water only flows one way) Forward Biased means the voltage is applied in such a way as the current (or water in the plumbing example) flows.

[pnichols]

I've had LED lights in our motorhome since around 2008 - but not always the same LED lights.

All LED lights ARE NOT the same, so you have to shop for them after doing your homework so as to know as much as possible before you buy. You CANNOT merely "price shop" if you want great LED service in your RV.

I've gradually migrated to higher priced LED lights in several receptecles in our RV to get better performance. The latest one I just recently bought and installed was designed in the U.S. (but built overseas), and is not affected by the polarity of the RV's receptacle and is specially vented so that it will never fail from it's own internal heat.

Here's what to watch for in an LED bulb:

1. Does it have the right socket on it to match your RV receptacle?
2. Is it insensitive to polarity so that is doesn't matter how your RV receptcles are wired polarity-wise?
3. Are it's electronics designed so as to not create static noise in radios, TV's, etc..
4. Is it bright enough ... in other words, does it have a high enough lumen rating? (To duplicate a 40 watt incandescent bulb's brightness takes about a 430 lumen LED.)
5. How is it's light radiated so that you can aim it if necessary to better distribute it's light where you want it ... or does it's light merely shine in all directions - which makes it less bright where you want it.
6. What is the "temperature" of it's light? To duplicate the warm ambience of an incandescent bulb takes a WARM WHITE LED bulb. LED bulbs come in different types (temperatures) of the colors of their light, so you have to be careful to check this when you buy. We dislike the white/bluish or "natural daylight" type of light inside our RV, so all receptacles have warm white LED bulbs in them.

For what it's worth, our RV's outside light by the door that lights up the entire area under the awning for awhile had a natural daylight LED bulb in it. I eventually grew to really dislike this sterile hospital-room type of light when outside doing things in the evening. I replaced it with a high power, aim-able, cool running, polarity indifferent, no static noise, 60,000 hour warm white color LED bulb and wow ... how nice!

[Harvey51]

I had an experience with a home AC fixture having the same problem. A seniors forum acquaintance had bought a new LED fixture to replace an old incandescent one at the foot of the basement stairs. My first thought was that the new LED was defective. I brought a cord with me, hooked The LED light up to the cord and plugged it in - worked perfectly. Next I checked the voltage on the black to white wires coming out of the electrical box in the ceiling - 120 volts. Hooked up the fixture - No light. Took it down and by some fortunate accident I was a bit rough on the black wire and it pulled out of a wire nut connected it to the black wire from the breaker box.

I tossed the pigtail wire and connected the wire from the LED fixture to the service wire with the same wire nut and the LED light worked perfectly. Just a loose connection problem.