Inverter Mounting Near Battery Box?

[SpencerRB]

While I wait for the Magnum Hybrid inverters to come out, I've been looking at installation options in my Voltage.

I'm aware of the fact that inverters and open batteries in the same compartment are a no-no due to the battery gases creating a potential fire hazard.

I currently have 4 6v GC2 batteries in the front compartment in a vented battery box. If I make sure to fully seal the box, would mounting the inverter within this compartment be acceptable? I'm attempting to keep the wiring run as short as possible, plus I have quite a bit of free space in the front generator/battery compartment.

Thoughts?

[harold1946]

mena661 wrote:
Harold, I don't know why you are being so obtuse here. Or maybe you're just ignoring what you don't want to hear. The genny won't be on when the inverter is on so it doesn't matter if the inverter is in that compartment or not. And that shield around the genny does what? Oh yeah it keeps the heat out of that compartment. Since heat is heat, electronics doesn't pick and choose what hot it dislikes. My original reply was that my inverter gets used in HOT weather. I live in the desert. I've had no issues. Would you like for me to take some temp readings of my genny in the heat? Or would you ignore that as well?

To the OP, I operate my inverter in VERY hot conditions. NEVER had so much as a glitch. And since a generator does not give off heat when it's turned off (unless Harold has some strange genny that runs from alien technology), putting your inverter in that compartment above the genny is a non-issue.

Your ignorance of this inverter/charger is realy apparent. It is part of the design that the charger can operate at the same time as the genny is supplying power in order to charge the battery bank at the same time.

[mena661]

GBaxter wrote:
In reference to supplying fresh air, that would be the best solution....

Thanks for the reply.

[GBaxter]

In reference to supplying fresh air, that would be the best solution. In most coaches fresh air intake is hard to accomplish while keeping out rain, dust and dirt at the same time. You don't want the inverter or the compartment filled with dust and dirt so circulation air inside the compartment is the next best solution. The larger the compartment or if the compartment is connected to other compartments even better.

Most units will never overtemp in the inverting mode simply because most coaches don't have a big enough battery bank to run a large load long enough to get the unit hot. Basically the battery goes dead before the unit gets hot. Charging is where the unit works the hardest for the longest time. Remember the charger has to keep up with all the DC loads in the coach so it is not unusual to see the charger producing 80-100 amps when all the DC lights are on with fans running etc. This can go on for hours and this is when the units run at the highest temps.

We have tested the units in a chamber and tracked the temperature rise and now we are starting to include the temperature de-rating graph with each manual as they are updated. The de-rating chart is for inverting only the charger works differently. In charger mode the temperature inside the unit is monitored and if it rises too high the charger will gradually reduce the output in order to keep the temperature constant.

Gary

[harold1946]

Thought I would post this for those that are not aware of how tamperature affects inverters. All of them have similar "derating" as the temperature rises.
Temp.
C F Cont. output
25 77 100%
30 86 95%
35 95 88%
50 122 62%
60 140 36%
65 149 0%

[harold1946]

There is a list of retail outlets on the magnum website. The MSH3012M is available, retail price is $2,779.00.

[harold1946]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi harold,

Yes, I read that. I wanted confirmation from someone who knows.Why not go to their website and read it for yourself. www.magnumenergy.com The Victron literature says just about the same thing. Xantrex's boost works by transferring the entire load to the battery bank. The MasterVolt Mass Combi 12/4000-200 also has some kind of boost feature.

What would be nicest for me would be a stand alone psw with the kind of heavy duty design that Magnum provides. Unfortunately that's not available just yet. If I could stack two 2000 watt PSW units I'd be in inverter heaven.

I an not familiar with Victron, so can't comment on that, I would have to check it out.
It is my understanding the design of the MSH-M series was to address the issue of supelmenting power to the load as required, rather than transfer the entire load to the battery bank, not total transfer. To my knowledge it is the most advanced/sofisticated inverter available.
Only time will tell if it lives up to expectations, but Magnum has a good reputation for quality and reliability.

That was a direct quote from Magnums website, I just did not put in the quotation marks. I will go back and fix that.

[pianotuna]

Hi harold,

Yes, I read that. I wanted confirmation from someone who knows. The Victron literature says just about the same thing. Xantrex's boost works by transferring the entire load to the battery bank. The MasterVolt Mass Combi 12/4000-200 also has some kind of boost feature.

What would be nicest for me would be a stand alone psw with the kind of heavy duty design that Magnum provides. Unfortunately that's not available just yet. If I could stack two 2000 watt PSW units I'd be in inverter heaven.

[harold1946]

mena661 wrote:
Should your inverter be mounted in a place where fresh air is available?

I would answer that inquiry for you but you have me blocked.
Harold "the troll" :B:B:B

[harold1946]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi GBaxter,

Part of the reason for me mentioning the Victron was because the 12 volt Magnum was simply not available.

Magnum is an excellent product, and I'm sure it is well tested.

One of the problems with Victron is that in boost mode it draws all the power from the battery bank, until the load drops enough for the shore power or other source to take over.

May I ask how the Magnum works for it's boost mode?

Magnum has been offering 12 volt inverters for many years. The MSH3012M is the newest addition to the line.
Scroll back five posts, its in the text, first paragraph.

[harold1946]

GBaxter wrote:
FYI,

MSH3012M are being built and shipping so call Magnum and ask who they are being shipped to so you can order one.

To Harold, thank you for reading and understanding the manual and posting GOOD advice.

pianotuna on recommending Victron several times, good inverter but just three words we all understand these days for Magnum " MADE IN USA"

last item 100 cfm: this means that in order to maintain the ambient temperature in and around the compartment (whatever it may be) the inverters 2 fans each push 50 cfm. So if you want to supply the fans with enough air in order to meet their cfm rating you need to supply openings large enough to intake and exhaust 100 cfm. Remember to subtract for any louvers or screens when calculating the area needed for venting.

Gary

Good advice on the intake and exhaust, thats one thing I forgot to mention.
I am glad to hear someone realized I am not a troll. I only hope Spencer RB heeds the advice I gave him.

Now will someone please relay to Mena661 that he should at least delete the mis-information he posted.

[pianotuna]

Hi GBaxter,

Part of the reason for me mentioning the Victron was because the 12 volt Magnum was simply not available.

Magnum is an excellent product, and I'm sure it is well tested.

[mena661]

Should your inverter be mounted in a place where fresh air is available?

[GBaxter]

FYI,

MSH3012M are being built and shipping so call Magnum and ask who they are being shipped to so you can order one.

To Harold, thank you for reading and understanding the manual and posting GOOD advice.

pianotuna on recommending Victron several times, good inverter but just three words we all understand these days for Magnum " MADE IN USA"

last item 100 cfm: this means that in order to maintain the ambient temperature in and around the compartment (whatever it may be) the inverters 2 fans each push 50 cfm. So if you want to supply the fans with enough air in order to meet their cfm rating you need to supply openings large enough to intake and exhaust 100 cfm. Remember to subtract for any louvers or screens when calculating the area needed for venting.

Gary

[harold1946]

SpencerRB wrote:
Appreciate the opinions, on both sides.

To clarify, the inverter I plan is use is the new MSH3012M. 3k watts, 12v.

Additionally, the proposed location would be above the battery/generator box (unable to see in picture). I have not measured the compartment temperature while the gen is running but it would be a good exercise. The gen box is fully sealed from the rest of the compartment, and I could easily add some insulation if the heat transfer is too much (if it doesn't overheat the inside of the gen box).

Regarding ventilation, there are a couple 3" drain holes on the floor of the compartment. I could easily punch an exhaust hole in the side with a cpu fan if needed.

"The MSH-M series combines both the energy from the AC input and the batteries to power the inverter loads. Often referred to as a boost system. This feature gives the inverter the ability to recharge the battery bank when there is surplus power, or to deliver more power to the loads if they require more than the AC input can supply."
Having said that, It is possible for both the generator and the inverter to run at the same time. Thats when the ventilation system will be the most critical in your installation.
The generator vents out the bottom of the compartment, along with the exhaust. If the intake vent for the inverter is picking up these hot fumes and feeding them into the inverter, at the very least it will shut down the inverter on over temp, or possibly the gas fumes will destroy the circuitry.
The MSH-M series inverters have two internal fans capable of 100 CFM.
The statement made by an uninformed poster about the generator and inverter never running at the same time is not correct, it is designed to do just that when the load demand requires it or battery charging is taking place, and does so automatically.
Hopefully you have downloaded the installation and owners manual and will study it carefully.