Is a Mean Well RSP-320-15 a good choice for Top Charging?

[racer4]

Hi all,

I am thinking of buying a Mean Well RSP-320-15 (they won't allow a direct link) power supply to use primarily for "Top Charging" the batteries. Is this a good choice for Top Charging?

I have a Cedar Creek 36CKTS with a battery compartment that holds four GC2 batteries. I bought four Trojan T-125 batteries with a combined capacity of 480 AH (20-Hr Rate). There is a 200W solar panel on the roof, factory installed with a Go Power GP-PWM-30 solar controller. The converter is a WFCO 9855 😞 and the Distribution Panel is a WFCO WF-8930/50. The trailer has a residential refrigerator powered by an inverter and batteries when not plugged into utility electric. I figure the refrigerator will use about 140 AH DC daily when powered by the inverter and batteries.

When we are camping without utility electric hookup, I plan to do daily battery recharges, 50%-80% SOC, with a Mean Well RPB-1600-12 (rated for 100A) powered by two Honda EU2000i generators (paralleled).

When we get to a campground with electric hookup, I will fully charge the batteries and then do a "Top Charge" with the Mean Well RSP-320-15. It is rated at 321W (21.4A at 15.0V) with adjustable voltage 13.5 - 18V. I plan to adjust the voltage output to 15.0V, and charge the batteries until they get to 15.0V. The 21A is 4.4% of the battery banks 480AH capacity.

I originally planned to buy and install these two power supplies / chargers in September, but I want to buy the smaller one now to work around a recent problem.

Problem: I bought the trailer in May. The 120VAC electric worked properly on a 4 week trip and for 3 days at home. The outlet at home is a standard 15A outlet that I have used for years to power RVs (light usage, converter and refrigerator) when parked in the driveway. I turned off the two main 50A 120VAC electric circuit breakers, turned them back on and then every circuit on the right side of the breaker box was dead. All the circuits on the left side work. I checked the GFCI outlet in the bathroom. The two buttons on it do nothing, no click, the reset button will not stay in when pushed. I cannot find another GFCI outlet in the trailer. I tried to open the circuit breaker box to check the right side 50A main breaker, but one of the four cover screws will not loosen. It turns roughly, like the nut flange is broken, but does not loosen. The refrigerator/ inverter circuit and the converter circuit are among the dead circuits. I can plug the refrigerator/inverter into the working vacuum cleaner circuit. I can't reach the converter plug to plug it in somewhere else.

RV repair shops are booked up here now for many weeks. I have a trip planned in a few weeks (paid in advance, no refunds). Until the AC electric is fixed, I want to work around the problem. The 200W solar panel should keep the batteries mostly charged, if we conserve DC electric use and stay in campgrounds with electric hookups to power the residential refrigerator. While traveling the trucks DC electric wire in the 7-way connector to the trailer should should supply most of the power needed for the inverter/refrigerator. If the batteries need additional charging I plan to use the smaller Mean Well RSP-320-15, adjusted to 14.8V. Thus the reason to buy it now, instead of in September.

I think the 120VAC electric problem is a bad main 50A circuit breaker. There are two 50A breakers, one for each side of the box. Does anyone have another idea as to why the right side circuits only would be dead? Anything else I can check?

Do you think my work around plan for the electric problem will work for about 15 days travel?

Is the Mean Well RSP-320-15 a good choice for top charging? Is my top charging plan right?

Thanks,

Chris

[racer4]

Thanks Mex. I copied your post and added it to a file with some of your other postings, for future reference.

landyacht318 and all,
I looked through the Mean Well models for ~24A Current Rating and Constant Current Limiting Overload Protection and found the SE-350-15.

One thing I am not clear on and would like some help. If I charge the batteries with the on-board converter (Iota DLS-55/IQ4, Bulk 14.8V, Absorb 14.2V) until it goes into float mode, and then turn it off and start charging with a Mean Well SE-350-15 adjusted to 15.0V (rated at 23A @ 15.0V), will it charge at 23A? Or will the amps be significantly lower because the batteries are close to fully charged?

To meet Mex's Top Charging formula, they need to be Top Charged at ~5% of battery capacity. In my case 480 AH capacity X 5% = 24A.

Thanks all.

[landyacht318]

Apologies for not seeing that there is indeed a Meanwell rsp-320-15.

But it still has hiccup mode on overload, not constant current limiting on overload.

It says maximum voltage is ~15 too. While actual max voltage is likely higher, will it go as high as 16? Trojan just updated their EQ voltage spec to 16.2v.

Also I have no idea how long it would be before hiccup mode is initiated. To get this meanwell to work, one might have to start it while the other charging source has the batteries up in the 95%+ range, and then the batteries should, perhaps, not be able to exceed the ~21 amp draw of the rsp-320-15 and should not trigger the hiccup mode.

I've found that on the screwy31, after the prescribed time at absorption voltage, when Specific gravity was still lagging and more time at 14.7 to 14.9 was doing nothing but bubbling, that cranking voltage upto 16v would require about 5% of the battery capacity in amperage.

If it took more than ~6.25 amps to reach 16v on this 130 Ah rated battery, I left it at 14.7 or 14.9 for longer then tried again.

This is not Mex's prescribed regimen as I was not current limiting, only voltage limiting, but I did get as many deep cycles as could be expected from that battery, and it is still cycling, just much shallower, and resting on concrete.

I use my Meanwell rsp-500-15 in place of all other plug in charging sources. 40 amp Bulk charger, top charger, equalizer and float.

Twisting a potentiometer to dial in the desired voltage is not the rocket science the automatic' just fine' world believes to be necessary.

There is the Meanwell HEP series which does have a current trim pot and constant current limiting on overload.

http://www.meanwell.com/search/HEP-600/HEP-600-spec.pdf

The meanwell SE-350-15 has constant current limiting and a claimed voltage range of 13.5 to 18, which is about the same claimed range of my rsp-500-15 whose actual range is 13.12 to 19.23v

http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=se-350

If one is maxing out these power supplies so that they are up against the constant current limiting wall, then please increase ventilation over and through the unit. The casing is used as a heatsink so even a weak fan blowing over it will help keep the over temperature protections from kicking in.

Also the small 60x 10 or 60x 15mm computer fans are of suspect quality, and are fairly easy to replace with more reliable and higher airflow dual ball bearing fans.

I've more details about the meanwell rsp-500-15 in this thread:

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27969414.cfm

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"I never understood the term "top charging". Sounds like you want to use an unregulated 2-stage charger for offgrid and on-grid charging to Absorb, and regulated 1-stage charger for 15V "equalizing"

BATTERY COUNCIL INTERNATIONAL Makes a concise and clear formula available for equalizing flooded lead acid batteries. This precise and exact formula has been been used in the industry, the military, battery manufacturers, around the world since 1938

Charge each cell at FIVE PERCENT OF RATED AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY (constant current) 2.66 amperes to a maximum limit of 15.96 volts, or until such time as the electrolyte solution in all cells reverts to original new density

CONSTANT CURRENT is difficult to achieve. With a six cell battery a FIFTY WATT 12-volt light bulb put IN SERIES with the charger's positive lead will allow a "close-enough" constant amperage flow.

The term "To cause the electrolyte to equalize" is not the same as EQUALIZATION. This isn't a word game. The BCI formula has proven infinite times to be the safest, fastest and most reliable way to cause H2SO4 electrolyte to revert to OEM density.

The term EQUALIZATION has been abused by HERB TARLEK promoters to the point where it has been hopelessly clouded FUBAR. Are you ready to challenge 70 some-on years of engineering expertise? If you want to EQUALIZE a battery AND NOT PLAY WITH IT, follow the BCI recommendation. Yep. It's a free country and folks can do what they wish with their own batteries. Their time. Their money. Their mistakes.

BUT THERE IS A GLITCH in deep-cycling batteries that are used for long-term boondocking.

Car jar batteries SULFATE EASILY even when rigid recharging protocol is followed. "Why is this?" you ask. It is because very few off-grid batteries are allowed to be 100% recharged other than at very wide spaced charging sessions. It is expensive. It is time consuming and irritating as hell to listen to a generator for hours on end.

There had to be a 'better way" than cycle the batteries then do handstands trying to equalize the cells using the BCI protocol. Are you still with me?

By actual trial-and-error, using timers, kWh meters, and hundreds of hydrometer dunking (yes I had a minimalist crew helping me) I found a better way to stretch out the intervals between full-on equalizations.

Not a mere "twice as long". That's wouldn't be worth squat.

Ten times as long, is worth note. Need to equalize every two weeks? how about changing that to every TWENTY WEEKS?

A new charge protocol had to be devised.

After running through an infinite number of permutations, I devised an easy to follow regimen that achieved this objective.

The 5% of total ampere hour capacity is near impossible to improve on. It achieves time/amplitude maximum efficiency to SAFELY revert latticed plate sulfation back into solution. The proof is in the loupe. 10X magnification and intense inspection of positive plate material, along with specific gravity confirmation, allowed for proof without a shadow of any doubt the 5% total amp hour formula is optimum.

Different amplitude of E were tried, analyzed and rejected. It's a bell curve, results versus time. I kept in mind the entire time, that Generator Run Time had to be maximized with minimum plate erosion.

14.9 - 15.2 volts proved to be optimum. Remember though this is arrived at using the 5% of total amp hour capacity. 5 amperes for a 100 amp hour battery 10 amperes for a 100 ampere hour battery and 20 amperes charge rate for a golf car battery.

Current limitation. An auto parts store 50-watt (4+ amperes or 100-watt (8+ amperes) would act as a crude but effective amperage throttle. By mixing and matching 50 and 100 watt bulbs, a Fred Flintstone grade form of current control could be utilized.

There are alternative ways. The DROK 600-watt 12 as much as 60 volt BOOSTER as sold on AMAZON has both voltage and current limiting potentiometers (the blue things with the white adjustment screw)

The Meanwell RSP can reach 16.0 volts but the Megawatt or standard Meanwell can not; EXCEPT if the DROK booster is connected (get the drift?)

I needed a simple yet accurate name for the 15.0 v charging protocol. Such drivel as 'semi-equaliation' would only cloud the picture. TOP CHARGING identifies the protocol exactly and that's what I named it.

Not every flooded battery needs to be charged. But the longer and more frequent the bookdocking sessions become, the more a generator is used to recharge the batteries, the handier TOP CHARGING becomes. It is to circumvent being forced to do an equalization. Yes, solar panels help, but if the batteries regularly do not achieve 100% full charge using specific gravity as the goal, then slowly but surely the cells are going to sulfate. Time of sulfation is critical. Screw around too many times at 93% state of charge and the sulfation will harden. And there is no going back.

Folks that truly understand their flooded battery bank, use solar in a similar way. Periodically, they frugalize night-time energy depletion of the battery bank and the next day, allow the array to control overcharge a 5% rate to 15.0 volts. if it can't be done in a single session, more frugality and "tomorrow is the next day".

Landyyacht can tell you more about the RSP Meanwell because he has more experience with it than I have. But remember, there is no current throttling and that 5% of total amp hour capacity formula is crucial.

I am not going to write all this, yet again. Ignore it, junk it, copy it to hard drive, so whatever you wish with it but my poor fingers are aching now. Only an act of God would convert this to a "Sticky" so use it or lose it...

[racer4]

rjxj - Using a Dremel to cut the screw head off is a good idea. Thanks for the better link to the datasheet for the RSP-320-15. As you said, scroll down to page two.

Almot - I want to use a 100 amp charger when off grid and using a generator to charge the batteries from 50% to 80% quickly to reduce the generator run time. After many 50% to 80% charges and later at a campground (on grid), I will Top Charge to 15.0V to remove any sulfate build-up from the previous under charges (50-80). I got this method from Mexicowanderer, I hope I understand it right.

landyacht318 - "Also, it does not have constant current limiting on overload, so if the batteries were discharged enough to draw more than the Meanwell could provide, it would shut off until overload was removed, making it more useless for battery charging."

I was wondering if the Overload Protection mode (and more) was suitable for charging. Still I wonder if the batteries were fully charged by the converter, then charged with the RSP-320-15, if it wouldn't go into overload and shut down. I'll look for another model with constant current limiting. I want to have output of about 20-24 amps (4-6% of battery capacity) to fit Mexicowanderer's formula for Top Charging.

westend - "It sounds like you have lost one leg of the 50 amp service."
That's what I think. I put a meter on the end of the power cord and got 120V on L1 and L2. The power cord connects to a Marinco socket on the side wall, and from there the cord goes to the circuit breaker box. Since the problem appeared immediately after turning the main breakers off and on, I suspect the right side 50A main breaker.
Thanks for the tips on getting the screw off.

CA Traveler - Thanks for the tip on a screw extractor. I depends on the shape of the broker nut flange. Pulling out while turning might lock the nut flange in place.

Thank you all the the help. Please keep them coming!

[CA_Traveler]

westend wrote:
It sounds like you have lost one leg of the 50 amp service. Inspect shore cable, circuit breaker, and neutral bus. The most likely failure is your adapter followed by the 50A male plug, then 50A female plug if so equipped and then the ATS. Could be the 50A breaker.

You might try a vise grip pliers on the stripped fastener. By pulling and turning at the same time, it may loosen. Alternatively, cut/grind the head off. Three screws will hold the cover on when you are done replacing the circuit breaker or tightening wires. Also a screw extractor might do the job.

But get the cover off to check and mark all CBs on L1 or L2.

[westend]

It sounds like you have lost one leg of the 50 amp service. Inspect shore cable, circuit breaker, and neutral bus.

You might try a vise grip pliers on the stripped fastener. By pulling and turning at the same time, it may loosen. Alternatively, cut/grind the head off. Three screws will hold the cover on when you are done replacing the circuit breaker or tightening wires.

[azrving]

This
link then click on datasheet then page two.

[landyacht318]

There is no MeanWell rsp-320-15, there is only a rsp-320-12 and its maximum voltage is ~13.2v, making it useless as a top charger.

Also, it does not have constant current limiting on overload, so if the batteries were discharged enough to draw more than the Meanwell could provide, it would shut off until overload was removed, making it more useless for battery charging.

I have the Meanwell rsp-500-15, which does have constant current limiting on overload, and it will do 40 amps and the voltage range with an aftermarket 10 turns 1K ohm bourns potentiometer is 13.12v to 19.23v. The original potentiometer the range was 13.23 to 19.23v.


I modified it further than just the 10 turn potentiometer, It has extra ventilation and heatsinking, for extra longevity and reduced running of the meanwell provided 40mm fan, which is very loud.

With Ventilation and heatsinking improvements, at 75F, the loud fan does not switch on unless providing more than 34 amps. Without these additional Noctua fans and heatsinks, it would cycle on and off at just 6 amps.

[Almot]

racer4 wrote:
When we are camping without utility electric hookup, I plan to do daily battery recharges, 50%-80% SOC, with a Mean Well RPB-1600-12 (rated for 100A) powered by two Honda EU2000i generators (paralleled).

When we get to a campground with electric hookup, I will fully charge the batteries and then do a "Top Charge" with the Mean Well RSP-320-15. It is rated at 321W (21.4A at 15.0V) with adjustable voltage 13.5 - 18V. I plan to adjust the voltage output to 15.0V, and charge the batteries until they get to 15.0V.

I never understood the term "top charging". Sounds like you want to use an unregulated 2-stage charger for offgrid and on-grid charging to Absorb, and regulated 1-stage charger for 15V "equalizing" when you get to campground with hookups. Otherwise, if you don't need to EQ, why not using that 2-stage charger on hookups again.

Upgraded 2-stage converter should be able do the former. Yes, this other Minnie could do the latter.

[azrving]

I have a mega watt 30 power supply that goes to 15 volts. I also bought a meanwell 30 amp that goes to about 17 volts. I would have to go look at it as I dont remember the model. I also upgraded the converter to a PD 4655(?). On top of all that I also have a Quick charge 50 amp industrial 36 pound battery charger that cost $400

For the fastest charging I use the Quick charge then I would use the PD converter. I would upgrade the converter first and be able to yell in the window "Hun, turn on the switch or flip number 3 breaker on as I showed you". The mega watt will smoke if pushed a little too hard. The meanwell is much more substantial but for the same money you can do a good converter upgrade.

Edit: I'll be back. I'm going out to find a model number

Mine is RSP-500-15 Voltage range 13.5 to 18 v 33 amps

If you have a die grinder or dremel tool you may be able to grind the head off the screw.