LifePO4 batteries

[Cydog15]

Figured I'd repost this, start over and maybe the same 4 or so guys that hijacked it would be tired out and let others that ARE using LiFePO4 get a word in and discuss it.

I see a lot of folks are transitioning to Lithium and it reminds me of Solar when it first became popular. It was all about cost per watt. Well there are several companies selling lithium at about the $10 per amp range. BB seams to be the cheapest but their BMS is internal.
Found the Expion 360 line that Airstream is selling and it's 120 Amps in a group 24 box/case whatever you call it. Also has an external BMS that is user serviceable should it ever fail. That got me interested. Anybody using them and what are your thoughts? It does weigh a couple more pounds presumably because there are a few extra cells to get 120 amps in that smaller 24 group box. They also have a monitor that does all of the same things as the Victron and everything is visible on the screen so it's not like the old Xantrex where you have to toggle through the pages. Thoughts?

[babock]

I have 2 BattleBorn and 700W Solar to charge them.

For my trailer, adding 2 GC batteries and a secure box would up my tongue weight way too much for my comfort. Instead of close to 200# on my tongue(Includes aluminum box), I have 60# of Battleborns mounted back from the tongue inside my trailer. Way less chance of my batteries getting stolen where they are now mounted.

The batteries charge way faster than FLA. They stay in bulk charge until they are completely charged.

You can keep them discharged with no ill affects. In fact, you want to store them slightly discharged.

They have very low internal resistance. No longer will you have low voltage alarms running your inverter like you do with FLA.

I installed them at the same time I installed my entire solar system. I will be talking the 30% tax credit which includes the cost of the batteries. My $925 Battleborns will be a net $647.50.

[Cydog15]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I do have a question for owners of lithium

You can not simply throw the term "lithium" around when taking about batteries ! There are 2 basic chemistries: LiCoO2 and LiFePO4. There are several god articles on Wikipedia and many related ones.

LiCoO2 batteries are the most popular and have had the most amount of research and development done in the past 10+ years. The chemistry of the anode, cathode and electrolyte has been changing and the exact chemical make up bu manufacturer is a closely guarded secret. LiCoO2 batteries have the highest energy density and are the one that will explode if over charged/discharged.

LiFePO4 batteries are considered "safer" because they will not catch fire when over charged/discharged. Again, many chemical "variations on a theme". They have a lower output voltage (3.2 vs 3.7) any lower energy density.


LiPo (Po = polymer i.e. plastic) cells use the same/similar chemistry to LiCoO2, except the electrolyte is a gel and they can be manufactured into different shapes including a flexible "bag". This makes them very lightweight but more likely to suffer from physical damage.

Thanks are you aware of any "manufacture" marketing LiCoO2 to the RV industry or marine or fleet for that matter? Seems everything is LiFePO4. BB, Stark, Relion, Dragonfly (same company as BB) etc.

[Cydog15]

KJINTF wrote:
Have had a 12.8 Volt 200amp/hr LifeMnPO4 prismatic pack in the RV for over 3 years now. It's used in conjunction with the golf cart FLA system. Installed a cell based / pack based monitoring/alarm system the cells typically stay within 15mv of each other. With out any doubt it's the best upgrade / modification to date. 600 watts of solar, 2Kw sinewave inverter, etc. We did not get an RV to save money instead we purchased it to have a good time and enjoy the toy.

Suggest you take a look at prismatic cells/pack Vs the many smaller "C" size or similar cells that make up the plug and play drop in batteries.

Thank you.

[Lwiddis]

Almost 24 hours and still one conversion and one probably this winter. “I see a lot of folks are transitioning to Lithium.” Not per this forum.

[theoldwizard1]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I do have a question for owners of lithium

You can not simply throw the term "lithium" around when taking about batteries ! There are 2 basic chemistries: LiCoO2 and LiFePO4. There are several god articles on Wikipedia and many related ones.

LiCoO2 batteries are the most popular and have had the most amount of research and development done in the past 10+ years. The chemistry of the anode, cathode and electrolyte has been changing and the exact chemical make up bu manufacturer is a closely guarded secret. LiCoO2 batteries have the highest energy density and are the one that will explode if over charged/discharged.

LiFePO4 batteries are considered "safer" because they will not catch fire when over charged/discharged. Again, many chemical "variations on a theme". They have a lower output voltage (3.2 vs 3.7) any lower energy density.


LiPo (Po = polymer i.e. plastic) cells use the same/similar chemistry to LiCoO2, except the electrolyte is a gel and they can be manufactured into different shapes including a flexible "bag". This makes them very lightweight but more likely to suffer from physical damage.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I could never date Sophia Loren, but that did not stop me from hanging her picture above my alternator test bench. 🙂

I am interested in learning about the construction, makeup, and control of lithium accumulators. Real world versus reviews and manufacturer's hyperbole should be studied as to it's significance.

I do have a question for owners of lithium

Have you studied how lithium battery manufacturers determine ampere hour capacity? Is it exactly the same formula (from beginning to end) as the formula used on lead acid batteries?

At this point I am going to cheat and not search forever for manufacturer's recommendations for charging...guilty grin...

Instead I'll ask owners what the manufacturer's rules are in regard to connecting -their- lithium bank to their vehicle charging system. Bulk amperage limit, absorbsion voltage limit. Float limit. Comparison of temperature compensation between flooded and lithium. For me this is not the time to critique but to learn.

[Lwiddis]

So far (posted 15 hours ago) one RVer has converted and one RVer says he's probably converting this winter...probably.

Still doesn't sound to me that "...a lot of folks are transitioning to Lithium..."

[SidecarFlip]

Until the price gets reasonable (and it will at some point) they are not on my 'to purchase' list.

[KJINTF]

Have had a 12.8 Volt 200amp/hr LifeMnPO4 prismatic pack in the RV for over 3 years now. It's used in conjunction with the golf cart FLA system. Installed a cell based / pack based monitoring/alarm system the cells typically stay within 15mv of each other. With out any doubt it's the best upgrade / modification to date. 600 watts of solar, 2Kw sinewave inverter, etc. We did not get an RV to save money instead we purchased it to have a good time and enjoy the toy.

Suggest you take a look at prismatic cells/pack Vs the many smaller "C" size or similar cells that make up the plug and play drop in batteries.

[folivier]

LifeBlue also has Lithium batteries comparable to Battleborn and Trojan has just announced that they will be selling their Trillium brand of Lithiums.
Battleborn & Lifeblue have 10 year warranties so I wouldn't be too concerned about BMS problems. There are other companies that are producing similar batteries but info is scarce on them.
For the price (as of now) BB & LB are probably the best option until Trojan posts their price and warranty info.
Other manufacturers like Relion, Victron, Mastervolt are much more expensive. And to buy individual cells (which are all made in China) then add the cost of a BMS, etc. puts these close to BB & LB prices.
I'll probably be converting my Foretravel to 300 amp hours of Lithium sometime this winter so have been researching this and emailing BB & LB.

[Lwiddis]

“I see a lot of folks are transitioning to Lithium...”

I don’t. Still too expensive for the average Joe and Jane RVer to figure into their budget.