LifePO4 batteries

[Cydog15]

I see a lot of folks are transitioning to Lithium and it reminds me of Solar when it first became popular. It was all about cost per watt. Well there are several companies selling lithium at about the $10 per amp range. BB seams to be the cheapest but their BMS is internal.
Found the Expion 360 line that Airstream is selling and it's 120 Amps in a group 24 box/case whatever you call it. Also has an external BMS that is user serviceable should it ever fail. That got me interested. Anybody using them and what are your thoughts? It does weigh a couple more pounds presumably because there are a few extra cells to get 120 amps in that smaller 24 group box. They also have a monitor that does all of the same things as the Victron and everything is visible on the screen so it's not like the old Xantrex where you have to toggle through the pages. Thoughts?

[Itinerant1]

No that means it's charging 94a+ the balance is being used by what ever is running in the rig.

At the set point of 14-15a it's not over revving. Seeing that it only runs for 1 or 2 hours tops, no biggie. Right now I'm going on 670+ days of continuous boondocking with no hookups only solar charging, not counting the 200+ days of boondocking from the year before. The generator during this period of time has been used maybe a dozen times for a total of less than 24 hours. I think if I would of added the other 100ah battery I contemplated for a total of 600ah lfp I probably would of never had to run the generator at all.

[BFL13]

Does that say your charger is putting out 112 amps but the batteries are seeing 96, so the other 16 is for load support?

The 14a at 122v AC input would be 1708w (and VA with PF correction to 1 )

I am thinking you could run at 13 amps and still get near 90 to the batts. This would have the Honda not over-revving above its rating so much.

EG, if 125 amps is at 18a, then 13 would be about 13/18 x 125 = 90.3a

Be easy to test for that next time you need a generator supply recharge.

[Itinerant1]

Plus more that can be viewed.

[BFL13]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It seems to say that either:

A. You are getting 15 amps from the Honda 2000 and it does not "overload", or

B. You are in "load support" where your inverter is drawing some amps from the battery while the charger is putting 100 amps in, so the net actual charging is less than 100 by however much the inverter is drawing.

Does your monitor show the inverter/charger's DC "amps out" or just the actual charging amps going into the battery, like a Trimetric does?

[Itinerant1]

It's supporting nothing other than it's allowing the generator run at a higher rpm for more power. For max charging under these circumstance. Now if I was to use something drawing more than set amps then the charging would stop till load was done. I personally only use the generator for charging when needed.

Under my charging parameters its taking nothing from batteries. Your getting bogged down in the wording "load support" by Magnum.

Manual...
Standby Mode:
When an external source of AC power (i.e., shorepower or generator) is connected and
qualifi ed on the inverter’s AC input, it operates in Standby mode. In Standby mode, an internal AC transfer relay automatically closes to pass the incoming AC power directly to the inverter’s output to continue powering the connected electrical appliances. The unit is also monitoring the AC input and “standing-by” to switch to Inverter mode if the unit detects a power failure (or low AC voltage). While in the Standby mode, the unit can operate:
a) as a battery charger, which converts the incoming AC power into DC power to recharge
the batteries; or
b) in load support, when the incoming AC source is not large enough to power the inverter loads by itself, additional current from the battery is used to ensure the inverter loads continue to be powered.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

This is similar to stating

If I borrow money at x interest rate to support a debit that is costing me x percentage points, give me a net sum gain or loss...

EXCEPT

Your question is missing Louie The Louse's streetcorner fee. Equal to wear and tear on batteries, and electronics.

Nothing in the life of energy and batteries is free. Put on your reading glasses and study the fine print...

[BFL13]

Itinerant1 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"...there won't be any charging from solar a 1 or 2 hours hold over charge from the eu2000i will give a 100-200ah back in the..."

How can you put that many AH back in with a 2000w gen that can run say a 70amp charger at the most? Two hours x 70 amps is 140AH.(and take off some of that for heat)

I do not question your Li battery bank performance etc as reported. Just fussy about battery charging math.

MSH3012M will charge at 125 amps using 18 amp max from the generator. So in my case I set the incoming load to 15a as not to overload the generator and charging at about 100+/- amps.

18 amps max / 15 amps which it's set for = 83%
.83 X 125 amps dc = 104 amps

LFP will just gobble that charge with no heat showing in cells. 😉

I just don't understand how the 13.3 amp Honda 2000w gen can do that. I do know the charger is PF corrected in this case.

Eu2000i AC Output:120V 2000W max.(16.7A),1600W rated (13.3A). Using the load support on the Inverter/ charger it can be set 1-50a. If I were to set it at 17a you can hear the generator working at full bore as you lower the amp setting by 1a you can hear the generator slightly slowing down or not running full bore. 14-15a set on the Magnum seems to be the sweet spot and charging is 100ah +/-.

If you would like to see recorded readings in an Excel sheet from the system, there are 2 displays, 1 is for the LFP batteries and the 2nd for the Magnum inverter/ charger & pt controller. The top line should basically explain what is being recorded from what display.

Charging readings are highlighted in orange 9/23/17, 5/12/18, 9/19/18, 9/23/18

Other than that all I can say it works.

Load support! That's cheating. You are as bad as PT! 🙂

So if load support is by taking some from the batteries to help the generator, and you are charging them at the same time, are you gaining anything from the higher charging amps?

If there is indeed a "loop" you might do better by staying under the 13.3a gen rating.

[Itinerant1]

BFL13 wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"...there won't be any charging from solar a 1 or 2 hours hold over charge from the eu2000i will give a 100-200ah back in the..."

How can you put that many AH back in with a 2000w gen that can run say a 70amp charger at the most? Two hours x 70 amps is 140AH.(and take off some of that for heat)

I do not question your Li battery bank performance etc as reported. Just fussy about battery charging math.

MSH3012M will charge at 125 amps using 18 amp max from the generator. So in my case I set the incoming load to 15a as not to overload the generator and charging at about 100+/- amps.

18 amps max / 15 amps which it's set for = 83%
.83 X 125 amps dc = 104 amps

LFP will just gobble that charge with no heat showing in cells. 😉

I just don't understand how the 13.3 amp Honda 2000w gen can do that. I do know the charger is PF corrected in this case.

Eu2000i AC Output:120V 2000W max.(16.7A),1600W rated (13.3A). Using the load support on the Inverter/ charger it can be set 1-50a. If I were to set it at 17a you can hear the generator working at full bore as you lower the amp setting by 1a you can hear the generator slightly slowing down or not running full bore. 14-15a set on the Magnum seems to be the sweet spot and charging is 100ah +/-.

If you would like to see recorded readings click on the Excel sheet from the system, there are 2 displays, 1 is for the LFP batteries and the 2nd for the Magnum inverter/ charger & pt controller. The top line should basically explain what is being recorded from what display.

Charging readings are highlighted in orange 9/23/17, 5/12/18, 9/19/18, 9/23/18

Other than that all I can say it works.

[MrWizard]

i'm more interested in this



Tesla battery $1289

5.2 KwHr

[time2roll]

Link explains cost.

[mchero]

And the cost?

[time2roll]

pnichols wrote:
"Powerwall" sounds like a Tesla buzz-word marketing term to me.

What are the details on it's components and how they play together - really?

i.e. Just a generous capacity lithium battery - flat configuration for wall mounting - an inverter somewhere - what goes outside the home verus inside the home - etc?

You gotta love those tech sounding fuzzy product names and descriptions nowadays.

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

Usable Capacity: 13.5 kWh
Depth of Discharge: 100%
Efficiency: 90% round-trip
Power:7kW peak / 5kW continuous
Supported Applications
Solar self-consumption
Back-up power
Time-Based control
Off-grid capabilities (coming soon)
Warranty:10 years

Scalable: Up to 10 Powerwalls
Operating Temperature: -4°F to 122°F / -20°C to 50°C
Dimensions: L x W x 😧 45.3" x 29.7" x 6.1"
(1150 mm x 755 mm x 155 mm)
Weight:276 lbs / 125 kg
Installation: Floor or wall mounted, Indoor or outdoor
Certification:North American and International Standards, Grid code compliant

[BFL13]

Itinerant1 wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"...there won't be any charging from solar a 1 or 2 hours hold over charge from the eu2000i will give a 100-200ah back in the..."

How can you put that many AH back in with a 2000w gen that can run say a 70amp charger at the most? Two hours x 70 amps is 140AH.(and take off some of that for heat)

I do not question your Li battery bank performance etc as reported. Just fussy about battery charging math.

MSH3012M will charge at 125 amps using 18 amp max from the generator. So in my case I set the incoming load to 15a as not to overload the generator and charging at about 100+/- amps.

18 amps max / 15 amps which it's set for = 83%
.83 X 125 amps dc = 104 amps

LFP will just gobble that charge with no heat showing in cells. 😉

I just don't understand how the 13.3 amp Honda 2000w gen can do that. I do know the charger is PF corrected in this case.

[pnichols]

"Powerwall" sounds like a Tesla buzz-word marketing term to me.

What are the details on it's components and how they play together - really?

i.e. Just a generous capacity lithium battery - flat configuration for wall mounting - an inverter somewhere - what goes outside the home versus inside the home - etc?

You gotta love those tech sounding fuzzy product names and descriptions nowadays.

[Itinerant1]

BFL13 wrote:
"...there won't be any charging from solar a 1 or 2 hours hold over charge from the eu2000i will give a 100-200ah back in the..."

How can you put that many AH back in with a 2000w gen that can run say a 70amp charger at the most? Two hours x 70 amps is 140AH.(and take off some of that for heat)

I do not question your Li battery bank performance etc as reported. Just fussy about battery charging math.

MSH3012M will charge at 125 amps using 18 amp max from the generator. So in my case I set the incoming load to 15a as not to overload the generator and charging at about 100+/- amps.

18 amps max / 15 amps which it's set for = 83%
.83 X 125 amps dc = 104 amps

LFP will just gobble that charge with no heat showing in cells. 😉