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Almot's avatar
Almot
Explorer III
Feb 27, 2015

Lithium batteries life?

All this talk about lithiums in place of wet cells got me curious. With $$$ cost, how long will they last? Manufacturers like Balqon are advertising 3,000 cycles for Li-ion. Now, does this depend on DOD and temperature?

This article says that it does. See the 2nd table. 1,000 cycles at 50% DOD. Pretty much the same as wet cells.
Li-ion also deteriorate at elevated temperatures. The 3rd table shows 20% loss of capacity after 1 year storage at 25C.

3,000 cycles??? Am I missing something? Different electrodes?
  • jrnymn7's avatar
    jrnymn7
    Explorer
    Feb 28, 2015
    Jeff,

    The OP's link and mine are indeed to two different types/chemistries of Li battery. The OP's link is in regards to RC batteries, while the article in my link has to do specifically with 12v applications in boats and rv's.

    In the 'recent thread' link I provided, there are links to various other related forum threads provided. (courtesy of Reed)
  • SCVJeff's avatar
    SCVJeff
    Explorer
    Feb 28, 2015
    Almot wrote:
    Jeff, the link is not under construction. The article is. He is apparently editing it. The document is still there, scroll down to read.

    Somewhere at the end he is summarizing the Cons of LiPo, and one of them is - no charging below 32F/0C. Using - yes, charging - no. 32F is what I see even in Mexico at times in the morning, until sun gets high enough. This is worse than AGM going to sleep at -45F.
    I'll go back and look... In the RC world, cold batteries are a big deal, from very limited flight times, to in-flight shutdown. The cold weather fliers (which this week is about 3/4 of the country) usually warm them in the house, then stuff them in a jacket. I'd look a little silly with a GP31 in my jacket. Dunno what the capacities are, but there are graphs out there that can probably be scaled.
  • Almot's avatar
    Almot
    Explorer III
    Feb 28, 2015
    Jeff, the link is not under construction. The article is. He is apparently editing it. The document is still there, scroll down to read.

    Somewhere at the end he is summarizing the Cons of LiPo, and one of them is - no charging below 32F/0C. Using - yes, charging - no. 32F is what I see even in Mexico at times in the morning, until sun gets high enough. This is worse than AGM going to sleep at -45F.
  • SCVJeff's avatar
    SCVJeff
    Explorer
    Feb 27, 2015
    jrnymn7 wrote:
    That article is dealing with hobby/toy plane/toy car batteries.

    Read this for some real world info on 12v LiFePo batteries:

    LiFePo
    I see no mention whatsoever of anything RC related.Either way the chemistry is the same.

    BTW-Your link shows as under construction
  • Almot's avatar
    Almot
    Explorer III
    Feb 27, 2015
    Thanks guys. Have just come from no-internet rural Mexico and missed that 15-pages January thread. Will read now. Gas here is $4 a gallon, btw. Mex govt cancelled the subsidy that was keeping gas prices lower. Which doesn't bother me much, since solar is pumping 1.2-1.5 times more juice - on a bad day in winter - than I'm taking from batteries. But I still like high acceptance rate of Lithiums.
  • KJINTF's avatar
    KJINTF
    Explorer
    Feb 27, 2015
    I'm expecting my very soon to be installed 400amp/hr pack of Four 3.2V Prismatic cells to last > 10 years. Longevity is only one of several dozen reasons LiFePO4 are my choice over any lead acid formulation (FLA, GEL, AGM, ETC..) for my RV house battery bank.

    Do some research and decide for yourself
  • jrnymn7's avatar
    jrnymn7
    Explorer
    Feb 27, 2015
    That article is dealing with hobby/toy plane/toy car batteries.

    Read this for some real world info on 12v LiFePo batteries:

    LiFePo
  • pianotuna's avatar
    pianotuna
    Nomad III
    Feb 27, 2015
    Hi Almot,

    I started a thread on the same article a few weeks ago. It is not specific to the LIPO batteries.

    The deal killer for me is the inability to charge any type of LI in temperatures below freezing.

    On a different note, I just found out that lifeline AGM says their batteries "go to sleep" at -42.7 C (-45 F).

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