Low Voltage & Charger Efficiency a thread mutation

[MEXICOWANDERER]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Hi, This is a question and not a statement...

Has anyone out there experimented with different chargers and converters and has come to a conclusion WHICH charger or converter loses LEAST amperage potential at 100 volts versus 120 volts? Read "potential" it is a percentage differential. That is to ask, WHICH brand and model of converter or charger is LEAST negatively affected by low voltage.

Thank You


This would be worthy of a new thread. Wish I had some answers but if I had to speculate IOTA would perform best with low voltage. Or Xantrex Truecharge has a fairly low input voltage rating and will tolerate high voltage also.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Excellent. I learned some things. After the Yamahahaha 5500 diesel I decided to go with diesel driven alternators and the trace 4024. With today's tiny hairpin alternators a person could build one tiny and powerful charger. I love my three stage fully adjustable regulator model, with 30 ohm 5 amp rheostat bypass. It was rare when I had "hookups". But then I did not demand a hands-off space shuttle either.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
For generator users. I figured a rational discussion would be worthwhile.

In that context I can be more specific. The PD converters have an 'interesting' relationship with generators that can be good or bad depending on the circumstance, because of the converter's dependence on the AC waveform's peak voltage, and its lousy power factor. The 'hot ticket' is a Honda inverter generator paired with a PD converter. The Hondas stand alone with a target output voltage around 125 instead of most other's 120, and it maintains the peaks when faced with the bad power factor load, allowing the PD converter to exceed its specs. If the PD converter is sized too big for the generator (e.g. 60 or 80 amp converter with an eu1000i), the converter can be manually kicked out of boost mode until the battery draw goes down. With a non-Honda inverter generator, the PD converter should still work pretty good. Pairing the PD converter with an AVR generator results in reduced performance. The poor power factor load 'confuses' the AVR. The generator output is still in the 120 RMS ballpark, but the peaks are way down and the PD converter's output suffers. With a smaller conventional generator this turns into an advantage, allowing a 'tiny' generator power to a 'huge' converter at reduced power. A conventional generator in the 750-1,000 VA ballpark will run a 60 or 80 amp PD converter in boost mode in the same situation that will overload an eu1000i.

In summary: With an inverter generator or small conventional generator, PD is a good choice. With a larger conventional generator, another brand (one example being WFCO) will perform much better. Having only 2 generators and a few converters I'm making broad statements without a lot of data, but other forum posts have been consistent with the conclusions.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yes smkettner, it was certainly your question and remark and I copied cut and pasted then found out after posting just as the power failed, that the credit failed to copy like I wanted. When the power fails the microwave tower and internet signal goes dead -- please forgive the slight...

The question was posed in proxy by me (for others). For generator users. I figured a rational discussion would be worthwhile. No worries about me 🙂 I can power a small village in Michoacan.

[LScamper]

Adjust your own input voltage!

20 AMP 110V 2kVa VARIAC 0-130V OUTPUT.

$90.00 + $23.00 shipping.

I have one, not the quality of an industrial variac but not bad and cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-AMP-110V-VARIAC-AUTOTRANSFORMER-VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-POWERSTAT-0-130V-OUTPUT-NEW-/221224728483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33820577a3

[time2roll]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
This would be worthy of a new thread. Wish I had some answers but if I had to speculate IOTA would perform best with low voltage. Or Xantrex Truecharge has a fairly low input voltage rating and will tolerate high voltage also.

Hey this part was mine from the original post down deep in the other thread 😉

[msiminoff]

I haven't done any testing, but I would expect that the various Power Factor Corrected chargers to perform well in low input voltage conditions.
For example: Xantrex TRUECharge, Samlex BP-1210, Sterling ProCharge , ProMariner's ProNautic line, Victron Phoenix, etc, etc...

I do have an IOTA DLS-30 and a Variac sitting around, so I can easily test that one and report back. I do not own a B&D VEC1093DBD, but I expect that it would perform poorly with low input voltage.

Cheers,
-Mark

[Golden_HVAC]

I would expect the True Charger to keep putting out 20 amps - probably well below 100 volts, as it has a high frequency trnasformer, and should work to it's full potential even at a lower voltage.

I have one, but not really a easy way to test it out. Right now I have a full 119 volts, I could reverse the wires in my "Booster" transformer to buck it to only 96 volts, and see what happens, but it would take a couple of hours, and frakely I don't have time to spare on such a project.

My Trace M1512 inverter charger should also keep producing power at a very low input voltage too. Also due to the high frequency transformer, they use short bursts of power, to generate something like 400Hz, then transform this to the correct voltage, then change it back to 60 Hz. Or in the case of charging, change it back to DC power.

You can probably contact Trace and see what they say about low input voltage on their products.

You might also get a lot of advice on "Correct the input voltage to make it 105 - 125 volts" and this is a easy thing to do. A 500 watt 12 volt transformer is good for about 40 amps output. You wire this in series with your 95 volts input voltage, and you get 107 volts output. If you have a 16 volt transformer, you can get about 110 volts output (depending on the transformers input voltage ratio, it might be a volt or two +/- this output).

Once while camping in Bowling Green Ky, I was in the pits of a large drag racing event. I was seeing input voltage to my RV around 105 volts after my 12 volt booster, so I changed it to boost by 24 volts. This gave me about 112 volts input while running the A/C, and some other small things like a computer and monitor. My input was from a 20 amp receptical fed from a power pole and some #2 wire up there (no fuses) and 50' of #14 gauge wire, 25' of #12, 30' of #10 extension cords, then the booster, then the 30' #10 RV power cord. So you can guess why my voltage drop was a LOT!

I made my booster out of a 1,000 watt 12/24 volt transformer, with two windings, each 500 wattts or 41 amps at 12 volts (with 120 volts input). I figure with 95 volts input, each winding put out about 9.5 volts, giving me about 112 volts under load (reverse figuring means I was only getting in about 90 - 95 volts?) Anyway it worked.

I did not need to run my charger while camping - most of the time the 400 watt solar system is more than enough power to run any lights, and other 12 VDC things in the RV. So I really have no idea what my charger will do under low voltage conditions, I have not needed to find out. My "Charger" is the solar controller, not the shore power charger most of the time.

I actually converted my Truecharger 20 by installing #8 gauge battery jumper cables to the output, and installed a #16 gauge 20' extension cord to the 120 volt input, and use it as a portable charger now. If I had access to a Variac, it would be really easy to get 90 VAC, and test the charger at that input voltage, and I would be happy to post the results. I already have a DC clamp on meter, the rest would be easy.

Fred.

[pianotuna]

Hi Mex,

The Iota "drops the ball" below 95 volts. I'd vote for it.

[HiTech]

Possibly VEC1093DBD. Worth checking if someone has one. Having an auto former is a bit more of a problem, but a long extension cord might serve a similar purpose in a low voltage test.

Jim