Lug nuts for steel wheels?

[myredracer]

I've just had a need to mount the spare tire on our TT for the first time while I deal with a tire issue. The lug nuts for the alloy wheels are conical but are they the correct ones to be using with steel wheels? Or is that what's normally done? The holes in the steel wheel are quite a bit larger in diameter than the studs.

[Lynnmor]

I contacted etrailer and asked about the Dexstar wheel and any other of that approximate size.

Amswer:
"The # AM20552 that you referenced does have a taper built into the holes for the lug nuts. Nothing we offer is going to have a flat surface there".

There is no way that I would use the wheel as you describe it. There were larger wheels made that used a 5/8" flanged nut, but this is an oddball.

[brulaz]

myredracer wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Their catalogue does specify lug nuts with the 60 degree taper.I noticed that too and I asked and she said something about it means you CAN'T use it with tapered nuts. There is an asterik after "60" but I can't see a reference anywhere to that.
...

I guess if you mount a spare steel wheel and it rolls off on you, you will find out why. :S

My wheels, both the steel spare and alloy, require the tapered lug nuts to center the wheel. The wheels/drum are lug- not hub-centric. Without the taper, or round-bottom, lugs the wheel could slither about 1/4" in all directions.

[myredracer]

brulaz wrote:
Their catalogue does specify lug nuts with the 60 degree taper.I noticed that too and I asked and she said something about it means you CAN'T use it with tapered nuts. There is an asterik after "60" but I can't see a reference anywhere to that.

I have the TT at the frame shop now and asked the owner (very knowledgeable guy) and he shrugged his shoulders, rolled his eyes, and said they're just going cheap and doing that now.

If the wheel has no taper in the lug holes, I imagine the tapered nuts eventually deform the edges of the hole to fit the lug nuts degree of taper. Yes, it would seem that way. There is a bit of a taper already from deforming the metal. I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of miles it takes along with repeated torquing before they stay tight?

I guess if you mount a spare steel wheel and it rolls off on you, you will find out why. :S

[brulaz]

Their catalogue does specify lug nuts with the 60 degree taper.

If the wheel has no taper in the lug holes, I imagine the tapered nuts eventually deform the edges of the hole to fit the lug nuts degree of taper.

[myredracer]

I spoke to Dexstar today and was told that their steel wheels do not have a taper in the holes. The lady I spoke to also said that their wheels do NOT require a special lug nut. Their engineer isn't in today and I am going to call back again.

I snugged up the lug nuts today fairly tightly before heading off. Did not torque them to the 90 - 125 lb-ft they specify. When I got to my destination about 5 miles away, I found the nuts all needed to be tightened a fair bit. Not a good thing I would say. Makes no sense that a tapered lug nut is supposed to work on a wheel hole with no taper.

[Lynnmor]

I stand corrected. I just assumed that the wheel came from China because all my wheels are China made.

I would call Dexstar and find out what the deal is. It may be a special wheel that closely fits the bolts/lugs and uses a conventional fastener. Whatever, it ain't right.

[brulaz]

myredracer wrote:
The wheel is OEM from KZ. I just checked it again in case I was dreaming or something, and nope - no taper in the holes. Wheel cannot be reversed either. I'm used to seeing a "bulge" in steel wheels too.

What's even stranger is that it's made in the US by Dexstar. Not a suspect hecho en China item. It's 15x6", "Mini-mod" style, #17-222 which is not on their website.
...

I don't see that in the Dexstar catalogue either.

But all their other 15x6 Mini-Mod wheels list 1/2” - 20 60* as the bolt size. The "60" apparently indicates the bolt's shoulder angle that the wheel matches. In fact pretty much ALL their trailer wheels in the catalogue are listed with 60 degree angle bolt shoulders.

Think maybe KZ cheaped out on you.

[myredracer]

The wheel is OEM from KZ. I just checked it again in case I was dreaming or something, and nope - no taper in the holes. Wheel cannot be reversed either. I'm used to seeing a "bulge" in steel wheels too.

What's even stranger is that it's made in the US by Dexstar. Not a suspect hecho en China item. It's 15x6", "Mini-mod" style, #17-222 which is not on their website.

I spun it around numerous times while gradually tightening the nuts in a criss-cross pattern to try and get the wheel properly centered. Dropped the wheel on the ground and gradually tightened some more. Will drive up our driveway a few hundred feet and check tightness again before heading off down the street and then recheck once more after that.

[brulaz]

Lynnmor wrote:

myredracer wrote:


It just doesn't seem right to be using a conical shaped lug nut when the holes in the rims are drilled into flat metal with no mating conical shape. The sides of the lug nuts get forced against a sharp right angle edge.

Have been messing around with vintage European cars over the decades and the steel wheels have a cone shape with a lug nuts or bolt specifically for steel. And the alloy wheels use a different nut or bolt and they also have a different taper angle.

Can't see the conical nuts holding as wheel on steel wheels or centering as well as alloy wheels
:R

Wow, it does seem like you have a bastard wheel. No wonder you asked, what we thought was a simple question.

I just looked at my steel spare and it does have a taper that is slightly less than 1/8". If you have one that is a simple straight hole, I wouldn't use it. I guess that the first lug tightened is the one that decides the wheel location? Is there any chance that the taper is on the reverse side?

They used to form a bulge at each hole so that the taper would be more pronounced, but maybe that cost a nickel to do. China Bomb wheels now, what's next?

My steel spare wheel also has the taper. So did my previous trailer's spare.

Where did this odd-ball steel wheel come from?

[mkirsch]

For roadside emergency use, don't sweat it. Use the spare to get to the nearest tire shop, get the primary tire fixed, put it back on, and be on your way.

This whole deal of having to have left-hand threaded lug nuts on the left wheels or else they will come flying off is no longer relevant. Every car, truck, and trailer that rolls off an assembly line these days has all right-handed lug nuts. Clearly they figured out how to keep the lug nuts tight regardless of which way the wheel turns.

If it were such a chronic problem, the federal government would have mandated left-hand threaded lug nuts on the left side of the vehicle decades ago.

[Lynnmor]

myredracer wrote:


It just doesn't seem right to be using a conical shaped lug nut when the holes in the rims are drilled into flat metal with no mating conical shape. The sides of the lug nuts get forced against a sharp right angle edge.

Have been messing around with vintage European cars over the decades and the steel wheels have a cone shape with a lug nuts or bolt specifically for steel. And the alloy wheels use a different nut or bolt and they also have a different taper angle.

Can't see the conical nuts holding as wheel on steel wheels or centering as well as alloy wheels
:R

Wow, it does seem like you have a bastard wheel. No wonder you asked, what we thought was a simple question.

I just looked at my steel spare and it does have a taper that is slightly less than 1/8". If you have one that is a simple straight hole, I wouldn't use it. I guess that the first lug tightened is the one that decides the wheel location? Is there any chance that the taper is on the reverse side?

They used to form a bulge at each hole so that the taper would be more pronounced, but maybe that cost a nickel to do. China Bomb wheels now, what's next?

[myredracer]

But every once in a while, I have run into left hand threads. Wouldn't work too well on RVs for all the non-handy types out there that would end up forcing them on.

It just doesn't seem right to be using a conical shaped lug nut when the holes in the rims are drilled into flat metal with no mating conical shape. The sides of the lug nuts get forced against a sharp right angle edge.

Have been messing around with vintage European cars over the decades and the steel wheels have a cone shape with a lug nuts or bolt specifically for steel. And the alloy wheels use a different nut or bolt and they also have a different taper angle.

Can't see the conical nuts holding as wheel on steel wheels or centering as well as alloy wheels

Just seems like a cheap way of doing it on RVs, but it's in keeping with other things tho... :R

[RJsfishin]

If there is a problem w/ dissimilar metals, that's what neverseize is for. And despite the controversy on lubricating lugs, I have never in 50 yrs had any neverseized lugs come loose on my boat trailers that get dipped in salt.
But then, I use it on cars sometimes too,.....never a problem.

LH threads ?? Yeah, I remember when Mopar started that joke many yrs ago.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

RoyB wrote:
This post brings up a question for me... My wheels are aluminum and wondering now if you have to use special lug nuts that are compatible with aluminum corrosion wise...

Roy Ken

The biggest brawl I have encountered with aluminum is mating it to stainless steel. Results in thread clogging white powder.