microair easy start results

[ktmrfs]

Well, here is a summary of the microair easy start on my coleman MachIII 13.5KBTU AC.

First, the current results before installation. I had the supco soft start cap along with a 10 second time delay on the fan start.

Measured Peak current required to start is 60A,

Results with a single honda 2000
At low altitude, lower temps, with everything else off in the trailer, and the honda eco start OFF.
If I was lucky, the honda would struggle and start the AC, but note something to count on. The honda really struggled. above about 1000Ft or above about 85F, SOL, no way would it start the AC.

With honda 2000 in parallel,
If both had the eco throttle on, usually the honda voltage would drop low enough to have the Progessive Industries EMS relay chatter, even with the PI in bypass mode, voltage was dropping way low,
If one was off eco throttle, then it would start the AC without issues.

So, here is data after the easy start install. Which by the way was pretty straightforward, good instructions. And the easy start removes any start cap on the AC unit, but there IS a start cap INSIDE the easy start, along with the control board.

starting current on a 30A service using the 5 starts recomended before using a generator

No easy start 60A
easy start 1 27.6A
easy start 2 21.5A
easy start 3 22.4A
easy start 4 25.3A
easy start 5 25.0A

now, connected to a honda 2000 in eco mode,
no load honda Voltage 126V RMS
starting voltage sag 116V RMS
running voltage 123V RMS
peak starting current 22.0A

and the generator ramped up the rpm as it started, no overshoot in rpm, start was smooth.

So, IMHO success. We shall see when it hits 90F and 4,000 Ft to see if it will still start in eco mode, but I suspect it definitely will start fine with eco mode off.

Now, all that said, if you want to run the AC and much else you still will be out of luck. the easy start doesn't defy the laws of physics, so running current is still the same, so not much headroom left. But if you run honda's in parallel, running them in eco mode should work just fine.

[pianotuna]

Hi thanks for the answers!

When training the Micro-Air, would it be wise to use an autoformer to support the voltage? Or does the unit want to see voltage sag?

Is there an "ideal" voltage to train at?

Does the new 5 minute delay mean that I can "train" by switching off the air conditioner and then turning it back on in 30 seconds?

Do you have any information on using the Micro-Air with hybrid inverter/chargers such as the Magnum 3012 which are equipped with a "load support" (not voltage support) feature? I.E. do they "play well together"?

Micro-Air wrote:
Thank you again for everyone's support! I'm here to help et me know if you have any further questions. I am attending the Oliver Travel Trailer factory rally in Hohenwald, Tennessee over the next 2 days, so I may be a bit slow in responding.

[Micro-Air]

ktmrfs wrote:
Well, here is a summary of the microair easy start on my coleman MachIII 13.5KBTU AC...

...So, IMHO success. We shall see when it hits 90F and 4,000 Ft to see if it will still start in eco mode, but I suspect it definitely will start fine with eco mode off.

Now, all that said, if you want to run the AC and much else you still will be out of luck. the easy start doesn't defy the laws of physics, so running current is still the same, so not much headroom left. But if you run honda's in parallel, running them in eco mode should work just fine.

Outstanding report, ktmrfs! Thank you very much for documenting your success story. You obviously used a current ammeter that did a descent job of capturing the start-up surge. If you subtract out the fan amps for your Coleman (~3A), the compressor went from 57A (=60-3) to 19A (22-3), which is actually better than what I measured on that old Coleman in the YouTube video. You got 66% reduction then, which is great. BTW, with some recent Dometic models, we're seeing starting surge reduction percentages into the 70s, which is quite impressive even to us.

Regarding altitude and the Honda EU2000i, we recently worked with 2 different customers who did run into some trouble. Turns out, up to about 3000, all seems okay with the Honda EU2000i. However, we had one customer at 4600' and another at 5300', and they both needed to install the high-altitude carburetor jet kit to get the Honda to keep running after the startup was over with. This was because the running amps were in between Honda's '1600W rated amp spec and their 2000W maximum amp spec. We all know that that the Honda will maintain 2000W just fine without declaring overloads up to 16.7A (2000W). However, the customer at 5300' only had 15A of steady-state draw after the compressor start-up was long over with, and the Honda's output voltage rapidly collapsed after it went just a little over 15A as the compressor warmed up (in 3 to 5 minutes). When this voltage collapse happened, the compressor stalled, and the EasyStart detected this and shut it down immediately. Note that since the output current of the Honda was less than its overload limit (167A), the Honda did not indicate any sort of "problem" per se, during this voltage collapse. This is just how these inverter generators work. If the engine and alternator cannot keep the internal DC Bus (capacitor bank) charged adequate as the inverter section is taking energy away (to drive the output AC waveform), then the DC bus voltage gets drained and the inverter has less voltage to work with. The good news is after this customer at 5300' installed the high-altitude kit, all worked well.

pianotuna wrote:
I believe the Micro Air does a time delay already?

Bobbo wrote:
BTW, the EastStart video says it has a 5 second delay. When the fan starts, the EasyStart delays 5 seconds before letting the compressor begin to start.

time2roll wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
BTW, the EastStart video says it has a 5 second delay. When the fan starts, the EasyStart delays 5 seconds before letting the compressor begin to start.

I have never understood why the fan should start before the compressor. At home the compressor starts first.

Maybe the fan will get the generator off idle and ready to ramp up the throttle.

All great questions, gentlemen, and you're all correct, but I have more to add. Back last June when I made the YouTube video, we only had that black-enclosure EasyStart 364 which provided only a 5-second delay. Now, our newest beige, IP65 (fully weatherproof) enclosure model has a new circuit board inside that provides one extra feature. It has an "intelligent" short cycle prevention timer that keeps track of how much time has elapsed since the last time the compressor was running. It will prevent a restart from occurring for a minimum of 5 minutes, and it will keep track of the elapsed time even when power is completely removed (that's the intelligent part). For example, if your A/C's thermostat turns off, and then turns back on again in 3 minutes, the EasyStart will only wait an additional 2 minutes before restarting the compressor. The same is true if AC power was completely removed from your trailer, and then comes back again in less than 5 minutes. Of course, if the elapsed time is greater than 5 minutes, the EasyStart will only wait its usual 5 seconds before smoothly and quietly ramping up the compressor.

During the time that the compressor is off, your system's fan will be running, but you won't be getting any cold air. This is normal and often even happens even with some digital thermostats that show an hour glass icon indicating it is waiting too start the cooling cycle.

Speaking of the fan starting first, we do know that this helps the Honda respond in ECO mode and be at a higher output level by the time the compressor was started (5 seconds later). It does certainly help, but the Honda is actually smarter than that. We later found that the Honda will control its engine throttle dynamically and it does set it to several "in between" points for various output current levels. So, with the fan on by itself, that's only ~3A. The Honda does increase the engine throttle, but only to a point. The key to the success with EasyStart is that the compressor starting ramp is obviously extended to about 1 second, and the Honda's response time in ECO mode can closely track it and its reserve capacity in its DC bus capacitor bank can source the required surge current as well. The Honda is quite the exceptional machine, and all of the other manufacturers had to play catch-up, or are still in the process of doing so.

------

Thank you again for everyone's support! I'm here to help et me know if you have any further questions. I am attending the Oliver Travel Trailer factory rally in Hohenwald, Tennessee over the next 2 days, so I may be a bit slow in responding.

[ktmrfs]

pnichols wrote:
What his excellent report also shows is what an outstanding piece of engineering the Microair Easy Start represents.

Way to go .... both ktmrfs and Micro Air Corp.!!!!

Now ... combine the Micro Air Easy Start with one of the new high efficiency 13.5K RV rooftop air conditioners ... and a single little Honda 2000i just might really shine at any temperature and altitude with Eco mode off or maybe on.

yes that would be ideal. the new energy efficient ones draw around 10A which is similar to the polar cub on my smaller trailer.

Now another comparison I can describe. my smaller trailer has a coleman power cub, 9,000BTU AC. it is much lower starting current and the honda 2000 will start and run it at 6,000ft plus on hot days.

But if I compare subjective starting to the MachIII with easy start, the MachIII and easy start presents a lower initial load to the honda. If in eco mode the polar cub will cause the honda to immediately reve to full throttle and the rpm will vary for a few seconds before settling down as it gets over the inrush load.

with the MachIII and easy start, the honda rev's up to final rpm without any fuss in one smooth rev cycle.

so IMHO the easy start would be a must have for me on even the newer high efficiency AC units, and I may install one on the polar cub as well. I just need to make sure there is a spot to mount the easy start box.

[ktmrfs]

time2roll wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
BTW, the EastStart video says it has a 5 second delay. When the fan starts, the EasyStart delays 5 seconds before letting the compressor begin to start.

I have never understood why the fan should start before the compressor. At home the compressor starts first.

Maybe the fan will get the generator off idle and ready to ramp up the throttle.

that's the easy start reasoning. However, my reasoning is different. I'd rather not have the extra few amps draw as the compressor tries to start given the honda's marginal surge capability for this application. So I changed my agastat delay to 10 seconds, lets the compressor get going, then the honda is rev'd up and then the fan starts.

so far it doesn't show any issue starting compressor first.

either way probably is ok. the big thing is that in neither case does the compressor and fan try to start at the same time. the fan in mine has a start cap, but there is still an inrush load above normal running load, and staggering them is the best thing to do.

[otrfun]

ktmrfs, thank you for your helpful and informative post. Not many take the time to test and document inrush (startup) current like you have. It's obvious from your inrush current measurements the MicroAir Easy Start is working as advertised. Thanks again.

[time2roll]

Bobbo wrote:
BTW, the EastStart video says it has a 5 second delay. When the fan starts, the EasyStart delays 5 seconds before letting the compressor begin to start.

I have never understood why the fan should start before the compressor. At home the compressor starts first.

Maybe the fan will get the generator off idle and ready to ramp up the throttle.

[Bobbo]

Just bought a TT. We have not yet decided whether to buy a generator or not. If we do, I will order the EasyStart that I have bookmarked in my browser.

BTW, the EastStart video says it has a 5 second delay. When the fan starts, the EasyStart delays 5 seconds before letting the compressor begin to start.

[pnichols]

What his excellent report also shows is what an outstanding piece of engineering the Microair Easy Start represents.

Way to go .... both ktmrfs and Micro Air Corp.!!!!

Now ... combine the Micro Air Easy Start with one of the new high efficiency 13.5K RV rooftop air conditioners ... and a single little Honda 2000i just might really shine at any temperature and altitude with Eco mode off or maybe on.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Even though both the generator and air conditioning are way out of my line of expertise, may I offer my praise at a fine piece of documentation. Not only displays your results but the efficacy of the concept. 🙂

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I believe the Micro Air does a time delay already?

[time2roll]

My agastat is sitting on the shelf since I went Dometic digital.
If you need it and are going to actually use it let me know.

[ktmrfs]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Kt,

Thanks for the information. I've ordered a unit. I'm hoping that with the kit the Magnum inverter will not display the red overload light.

let us know how it turns out. I think you have a good chance. If possible see if you can find a time delay for the fan. I had an agastat time delay, but I believe it has been discontinued. It allows anything from 0.5 seconds to 10 seconds of delay, hooks into the 12V control line for the fan, and is adjustable by a resistor. 1Mohm gives 10 seconds.

[pianotuna]

Hi Kt,

Thanks for the information. I've ordered a unit. I'm hoping that with the kit the Magnum inverter will not display the red overload light.

[RSD559]

Thank you for the effort and the post. We're looking at the Easy Start kit for our annual week long reunion at Lake Siskiyou in Northern California. They've been replacing the 30 amp plugs in our campground loop with 20 amp plugs. Don't know if our spot is downgraded yet. They want to get the loop back to small trailers and tent trailers. And force the big RVs to go to the full hookup sights. But the loop is perfect for our big family. Our new trailer has a 15k btu A/C unit, so I don't know if there is any hope. But, from what I've read about the Easy Start, it will help your A/C be less harsh on itself, it that makes any sense. So it will be a good investment.