microair easy start results

[ktmrfs]

Well, here is a summary of the microair easy start on my coleman MachIII 13.5KBTU AC.

First, the current results before installation. I had the supco soft start cap along with a 10 second time delay on the fan start.

Measured Peak current required to start is 60A,

Results with a single honda 2000
At low altitude, lower temps, with everything else off in the trailer, and the honda eco start OFF.
If I was lucky, the honda would struggle and start the AC, but note something to count on. The honda really struggled. above about 1000Ft or above about 85F, SOL, no way would it start the AC.

With honda 2000 in parallel,
If both had the eco throttle on, usually the honda voltage would drop low enough to have the Progessive Industries EMS relay chatter, even with the PI in bypass mode, voltage was dropping way low,
If one was off eco throttle, then it would start the AC without issues.

So, here is data after the easy start install. Which by the way was pretty straightforward, good instructions. And the easy start removes any start cap on the AC unit, but there IS a start cap INSIDE the easy start, along with the control board.

starting current on a 30A service using the 5 starts recomended before using a generator

No easy start 60A
easy start 1 27.6A
easy start 2 21.5A
easy start 3 22.4A
easy start 4 25.3A
easy start 5 25.0A

now, connected to a honda 2000 in eco mode,
no load honda Voltage 126V RMS
starting voltage sag 116V RMS
running voltage 123V RMS
peak starting current 22.0A

and the generator ramped up the rpm as it started, no overshoot in rpm, start was smooth.

So, IMHO success. We shall see when it hits 90F and 4,000 Ft to see if it will still start in eco mode, but I suspect it definitely will start fine with eco mode off.

Now, all that said, if you want to run the AC and much else you still will be out of luck. the easy start doesn't defy the laws of physics, so running current is still the same, so not much headroom left. But if you run honda's in parallel, running them in eco mode should work just fine.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Could you not run it before on the 2400? Any idea what the voltage was when running?

ewarnerusa wrote:

ewarnerusa wrote:
...Then the generator test -> Yamaha 2400.

Generator test was a success! High altitude blazing hot temps will be the true test though.

[ewarnerusa]

ewarnerusa wrote:
...Then the generator test -> Yamaha 2400.

Generator test was a success! High altitude blazing hot temps will be the true test though.

[pianotuna]

Hi TexasChaps,

Actually I was able to run the roof air from the inverter before having the Microair installed. It seems to have made little difference except for there being two "blips" of the red fault light rather than just one longer one.

Demand with the Microair varied between 134 and 143 amps @ 12 volts.

TexasChaps wrote:


LOL.. I can just hear those batteries crying...

that level of abuse will shorten their life considerably..

[TexasChaps]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi jharrell,

Music to my ears!

Any idea of the wattage draw on your 15k btu unit?

Thanks.

LOL.. I can just hear those batteries crying...

that level of abuse will shorten their life considerably..

[ewarnerusa]

I installed my Micro Air this weekend. Weather was nice and hot when I finished and fired up the air con, then burly thunderstorms rolled in and the temp dropped 20F. So I didn't get my training cycles in. I left the air con at a relatively low setpoint today and hopefully it made it through its cycles. Since I don't have a way to count them while I'm at work, I may do this for one more day to be sure it is all trained up. Then the generator test -> Yamaha 2400.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Any chance of a test with the eco mode *on*?

exploringcarolina wrote:
Completed installation of the Microair Easy Start 364 on a Dometic Penguin II 13.5K unit yesterday. After 5 start ups on shore power, tried AC operation with a Honda EU2000i, Eco mode off. The AC started & ran smoothly with outside temps at 86F at 900MSL.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

My Easy Start is installed and working well. However the installation documentation that comes with it leaves a lot to be desired. I.E. multiple circuit diagrams--and no model number on the Microair Easy Start case. I finally used the wiring diagram that is on the Easy Start.

My ac is a Dometic 13500 btu unit from 2005. The fan only on low draws 227 watts and on high 257 watts. Voltage was 116. Power source is one leg of a 50 amp outlet and I'm the only person on the circuit. Routing is through the Magnum inverter/charger (3012 Hybrid) with load support not enabled. Shore power is limited to 30 amps (my choice) and the cord to the RV is two 25 foot 30 amp RV cords. There is also a Sola Basic autoformer for voltage support.

When running the AC in cooling mode, voltage drops to 108, and wattage is 1526 measured by an Elite watt meter. The battery bank is fully charged.

I have the temperature set at 23.8 C (74.8 f) for cut in. Ambient temperature is 24.2 c (75.6 f).

If I run on the Magnum inverter. I get 2 "blips" where the red "fault" led comes on, one when the fan starts, and about 1 second later when the compressor starts. The Magnum is terribly "finicky" about voltage drop measuring it in the very first sine wave cycle. Before the Microair unit the red fault light would stay on longer. I was hoping the Easy Start would eliminate the fault light entirely, but I guess the Magnum is faster than the ES.

[exploringcaroli]

Completed installation of the Microair Easy Start 364 on a Dometic Penguin II 13.5K unit yesterday. After 5 start ups on shore power, tried AC operation with a Honda EU2000i, Eco mode off. The AC started & ran smoothly with outside temps at 86F at 900MSL.

Matteo at Microair, is great to work with, too.

[Micro-Air]

pianotuna wrote:
If I add power factor correction to the air conditioner will it "play well" with the EasyStart?

As you mentioned in your exchange with road-runner, power factor correction is merely a capacitor added to compensate for the inductance of motors or an autoformer in your case. This won't affect the EasyStart's operation since it is completely outside of its circuit and that of the air conditioner itself.

time2roll wrote:
Does Easy Start continue to learn each time or is it just fixed once the initial starts are complete?
Can the learning take place with normal cycling or is it better to manually cycle the equipment?
If my thermostat is set to "fan on" and just the compressor cycles how will that affect the learning and operation of the Easy Start?

Hello time2roll. To add to what jharrell and pianotuna contributed for you, the EasyStart does not continue to learn after the first 5 starts are completed. This is one of its big advantages. Next, you can allow the EasyStart to conducts its learning with normal cycling, providing you know you completed all 5 starts before you start moving back and forth between generator and utility. The only reason we recommend manually cycling and waiting around for the 5 minutes for each trial is to make sure they all get completed. Depending on the weather, your A/C could run all night in one, very long, single cycle. Lastly, you can set the A/C's thermostat to "Fan On" instead of "Fan Auto", and that will not affect the learning of the EasyStart. Typically, depending on the manufacturer and the model of the A/C's control, the fan is already running first before the compressor starts anyway. When powered from an adequate utility source, the EasyStart and its learning is not affected by any of the current going to the fan. However, when powered from a generator, the fan will obviously consume some of the generator's capacity (typically 3A for 1 fan motor with Dometic models, or for 2 fan motors with Coleman models) before the compressor is started. Thus this is one of the reasons for doing the learning on utility so that each starting trial can be better compared to each other without any variability introduced by the fan's affect on the the power source.

[pnichols]

Just as a sidenote ... I always scratch my head wondering about "why Honda requies jet changes for optimizing it's performance at high altitudes, while an Onan generator has an ultra-convenient knob you turn for optimizing it's performance at high altitudes?".

I must be missing something here: Does Honda need to do it more right in their portable inverter generators and design in a twist knob for fuel-air mixture adjustments ... or is Onan kidding us in that we're really not doing anything when we turn a knob to change fuel-air mixture in their built-in constant RPM generators? :h

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Thanks for the help. Mine was set to 80 vac for the drop out. I've moved it to 60.

I do know that on a 30 amp connection with the Magnum set to 24 amps, that the autoformer reacts fast enough to cut in before the compressor motor gets up to full speed. But that's no match for 1/60 of a second.

jharrell wrote:


Not sure if a Autoformer would do any good, it is just a extremely quick voltage drop due to compressor drawing huge start amps, not sure the Autoformer would even respond quick enough.

Edit: Just read the thread, look like you ran into the same issue, I really think the Magnum is too sensistive.

The setting is under Setup->Charger Settings->VAC Dropout. Page 25 in the manual has a detailed explanation.

[jharrell]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi jharrell,

You may be interested in my autoformer thread. Find it here:

Where on the ARC remote do I find disconnect voltage?

I agree about RV's including the Easy Start or some similar product. But then, they would have to spend a nickle more (can't say pennies in Canada any more--the don't exist).

Not sure if a Autoformer would do any good, it is just a extremely quick voltage drop due to compressor drawing huge start amps, not sure the Autoformer would even respond quick enough.

Edit: Just read the thread, look like you ran into the same issue, I really think the Magnum is too sensistive.

My Surgeguard which disconnects at 102V to protect things never even saw it, the Magnum is UPS grade with 16ms (one cycle) switch over but too sensitive when you have A/C on the circuit. Would be nice if magnum let you adjust the sensitively beyond 60V more like how many cycles at X volts or something.

The setting is under Setup->Charger Settings->VAC Dropout. Page 25 in the manual has a detailed explanation.

[pianotuna]

Hi road-runner,

I was told a simple capacitor could be used to correct the power factor on my autoformer thread. But I would not want to mess up the Micro Air.

road-runner wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If I add power factor correction to the air conditioner will it "play well" with the EasyStart?

Is there a device for that? The run capacitor is of course doing static PFC, but since the power factor changes with the voltage, waveform, and motor load the effectiveness of the correction varies. I suppose it's technologically possible to do active PFC on a load as large as an air conditioner. I've never see such a device, which of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I've measured the power factor of a Dometic 13.5 unit under varying conditions, the worst power factor I observed was 0.93, not too shabby. An active device would have to introduce some power-stealing overhead and/or efficiency loss, so I'd question if in this case it could provide enough of a net improvement to be worth it. Maybe other air conditioners have a worse PF. I looked only one time.

[pianotuna]

Hi time2roll,

Nope it learns on the first five starts only. If you move the unit to another air conditioner there is a way to have it learn the new one.

Their detailed reply to me above indicated that the new unit (i.e. not black) would do the learning inclusive of the 5 minute delay. Their web site specifies a 4 minute delay--but that could be a typo.

Can't answer the "fan on" but I think the idea is to maximize the surge and minimize the voltage drop during the learning process.

time2roll wrote:
Does Easy Start continue to learn each time or is it just fixed once the initial starts are complete?
Can the learning take place with normal cycling or is it better to manually cycle the equipment?
If my thermostat is set to "fan on" and just the compressor cycles how will that affect the learning and operation of the Easy Start?

Thanks again to the OP for posting data and thanks to the ES rep for posting real answers to the technical questions.

[pianotuna]

Hi jharrell,

You may be interested in my autoformer thread. Find it here:

Sola Basic autoformer test

Where on the ARC remote do I find disconnect voltage?

I agree about RV's including the Easy Start or some similar product. But then, they would have to spend a nickle more (can't say pennies in Canada any more--the don't exist).

jharrell wrote:
I had disconnect voltage dropped all the way to 60V still did it, Magnum only needs one cycle below 60V to trip. This is a a bug in my mind, but Magnum disagreed.

Anyway Easy-Start solved it and allowed me to start and run the A/C completely off battery if I want. IMO all RV A/C should have an integrated Easy-start from the factory, so much easier on everything. Actually R/V A/C's should be efficient inverter based compressors like a modern mini-split.