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MPPT Volts to Current Conversion

jodeb720
Explorer
Explorer
My buddy picked up 6 300 watt panels today - because he wants to be able to feed his ravenous Starlink - without running the generator.
The starlink uses 190 watts of power at 120v - it's a pig for power.

The panels have an open voltage of about 30 volts - and are rated at about 8 amps.

When the output is run through an MPPT controller - whats the conversion of higher voltage to output in amps?

One would assume that it would drop the voltage to 14.4 or 14.6 for bulk charging - but the amps would be higher than the panels rating of 8.

He's got two sets of 6 volt batteries (I think they are 100 amp Golf Cart batteries). if what i've read here is correct, he can only put 25% of the total battery capacity (lead acid) in per hour to recharge them.

I'm a bit concerned that the Controller could easily drive over that 25% amount and wipe out his batteries prematurely. Now before you tell me we can control the total amps on the controller (which we can), I'm just curious how many amps he should expect per panel assuming full sun - 30 volts and rated at 8 amps.

Thanks in advance!

josh
19 REPLIES 19

jodeb720
Explorer
Explorer
so he's now decided he only needs the 4 panels - not the 6. He over bought. Go figure. For the trip we're going to take, he's decided to take two panels, and just figure out how to make the think work - that's assuming he has room in his 5er with all the desert toys. we shall see. But thank you so much for the help thus far!

Cptnvideo
Nomad
Nomad
CA Traveler wrote:
He needs to use the panel specs for his calculations. I don't think any of those 3 controllers can handle all 6 panels due to controller output amp limits and input voltage limits. But he can put together a great system. He also needs to be very aware that cold temperature increases Voc so again back to the panel spec temp compensation to not exceed controller limits.


My 150/100 Victron MPPT controller is maxxed out with my 1600 watts of solar.
Bill & Linda, 2019 Ram Laramie 3500 dually 4x4 diesel, Hensley BD5 hitch, 2022 Grand Design Solitude 378MBS, 1600 watts solar, Victron 150/100 MPPT controller, GoPower 3kw inverter/charger, 5 SOK 206AH LFP batteries for 1030 ah

2oldman
Explorer II
Explorer II
CA Traveler wrote:
If I was considering a 1800W solar system then a 48V battery setup would be part of the system.
I like it.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

StirCrazy
Moderator
Moderator
KD4UPL wrote:
Where did you get the 30 volts open circuit and 8 amps numbers? They don't add up.


I thought that initially also, doesn't make sense. I get up to 23 amps out of my 325watt panel so it is still baffling me a bit
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
He needs to use the panel specs for his calculations. I don't think any of those 3 controllers can handle all 6 panels due to controller output amp limits and input voltage limits. But he can put together a great system. He also needs to be very aware that cold temperature increases Voc so again back to the panel spec temp compensation to not exceed controller limits.

My 3 panels in series with 64' of 10ga wire have a drop of 0.5V which is very low.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

jodeb720
Explorer
Explorer
He purchased a Kill a watt today -
So maybe after this trip we'll have a better idea of his real needs and we can figure out what he really needs.

I did find out he go Four 6 volt golf cart batteries from Costco - interstate branded. Basically he's going after two battery "banks".

I did a quick search, and they are 210 amp @20 hours and 175 @5 hours. At least I got that far this evening.

As to why he purchased 6 panels - I just don't know. I think he figured he needed that much. He mentioned something about a "Midnight" brand charge controller - MPPT. Maybe he said "Classic" as well - but it was when he was on the road returning from a day of skiing so who knows what I heard.

I googled that and what I don't know if is if it's 150, 200 or 250 model.

@KD4UPL - What I know is what he told me. He said the panels, in direct sun were producing 30 volts - and when the guy who sold it to him did a amperage test it was around 8amps. I wasn't there when he got all the stuff - but he got a bunch of stuff. Clamps to hold it down to the roof of his 5er, the connectors (M4's?).

What he didn't purchase was wire because he didn't know how far all is runs were going to be. He said he wanted to figure out how to make it all work - first - before he started drilling holes in is roof and attaching things permanently. He also wanted to calculate voltage drop from the panels to the controller - and size the wire properly so as to minimize voltage loss from the panel to the controller. He's planning on mounting his controller within a couple of feet of the batteries.

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
If I was considering a 1800W solar system then a 48V battery setup would be part of the system. Pros and cons of course but a 100A current at 12V is 25A at 48V for equivalent power.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

Flyfisherman128
Explorer
Explorer
Do yourself a favor.. if your talking about snow on your solar panels..get auto start for his generator and a good charger.. it's a game changer..I did it 6 years ago I have peace of mind and never a cold night

Flyfisherman128
Explorer
Explorer
Do yourself a favor.. if your talking about snow on your solar panels..get auto start for his generator and a good charger.. it's a game changer..I did it 6 years ago I have peace of mind and never a cold night..

SJ-Chris
Explorer II
Explorer II
For anyone who is asking the question (or is concerned with) about solar, batteries, charging, etc....a Battery Monitor is a MUST (...and an amazing/fun/informative tool).

Here is an inexpensive one for less than $50:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FGFFHC6

If you want to get fancier, there are some with bluetooth that connect to your phone apps, etc.

Once you install a battery monitor, go out for a weekend trip and live life as you normally would when RVing. Write down data points from your battery monitor...Start the batteries fully charged (100%). How low do your batteries go after 24hrs? 48hrs? This will give you an idea as to how many total AHs you "usually" consume each day. From there, you can calculate how large your battery bank should be. It is reasonable to double that amount of AHs (...this will give you some buffer in your overall AHs). If your reliance on batteries is CRITICAL (ie. If you MUST have batteries for work, etc) then add more. And then from there you can calculate how much solar you need to get your batteries charged near full everyday. If you have a generator, you always have a backup. If your batteries charge from your chassis alternator then you have another backup.

If you live fulltime (or more than 50-100 nights per year) then battery cycles/lifetime becomes an issue and you might want to look at the DOD vs lifecycle charts for your specific battery and design your system accordingly. BUT if you are spending less than 30 nights per year BOONDOCKING in your RV then you can pretty much ignore the "don't discharge your batteries more than 50%" mantra that you read online (...you will never "use" all your battery cycles even if you discharge down to ~75-80% every time you camp...as long as you charge the batteries back up the next day). I'm not saying you should assume 75-80% discharge when designing your system (...I like to be conservative and don't mind if I have more batteries than I need), but I'm saying you should never worry if your batteries go that low during use if you are like most non-fulltime RV users.

If you have four 6v GC batteries, then your current battery bank AHs is 400-450AHs. If this were me, I would try to design my solar so that it could replenish ~250AHs per day. One 100w panel on average during summer with good sun overhead will generate ~30AHs/day. So 900w could probably generate ~270AHs per day. Because I like to overdesign everything, I'd probably put up 4 of those 300w panels and that would be plenty.

One thing you need to keep in mind that many people don't account for... When your batteries are discharged 40-75% they will accept a LOT of amps from your charge controller. BUT once your batteries get to about 80% full the charge rate from your charge controller starts to slow down SIGNIFICANTLY. Even if your 1200w of solar panels are generating 60 amps that *could* be flowing into your batteries, you might only see 2-10 amps actually flowing into your batteries. That's because that is all the batteries want (or can handle) during that stage of the charge.

One other good news/bad news thing to consider....
Bad news: IF you are using tons of power at night, then all of it is coming from your batteries as there is no solar production at night.

Good news:
1) Generally we sleep at night, so power draw is usually not crazy while we are sleeping (...the furnace on cold nights likely being among the largest power draw).
2) If you are using lots of power during the day (ie. Your Starlink, working computers, etc), your over-designed solar system will not only charge your batteries at the quickest rate that the batteries will allow, but the EXTRA power coming from your solar panels will power everything in your RV/trailer that is using power during the day. So the reality is that you will have "fully charged" (~98% full as the last 2-3% take a long time) batteries at dusk. So your battery bank really only needs to get you from dusk to ~8am when the sun comes back up (and the solar starts to kick in again)!

With solar, the reality is you need a smaller battery bank than you think to get you from dusk to dawn. BUT, since you can't always count on sunshine, calculating your actual typical daily AHs needed and then doubling it seems to be a good technique for calculating how big your battery bank should be. And, if you have a generator and alternator as backup, then you are completely covered anyways.

Other random points:
If you are camping in the heat and you run your generator during the day so that you can run your AC, then solar isn't needed as much since your generator will be charging your batteries.
If you mostly camp with electrical hookups, then you don't really need solar.
I like having at least SOME solar so that my coach and chassis batteries (via AMP-L-Start) are always kept fully charged especially when in storage for weeks/months.
I like using used solar panels on my RVs. I have bought many 250w (working/tested) solar panels for $35 per panel. No moving parts means they last a very long time. At that price, throw up an extra panel (overdesign your system) and call it done.


Good luck!
Chris

PS: Solar is addictive
San Jose, CA
Own two 2015 Thor Majestic 28a Class C RVs

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
Lots of good input for him. Suggest he start reading and learning about solar as there tons of educational information available. The entire system ties together as in panels, solar controller, batteries, inverter, wiring etc.

The most basic question is "What are his energy requirements"? In 2014 my first solar purchase was a battery monitor which gave me volts, amps, kWH, SOC which allowed me get a very clear idea of my requirements. There are also manual methods and Excel calculators to help. A Kill A Watt is a good tool and often a watt rating on a device is a worst case vs a normal draw. A DC amp clampon meter is another good tool.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
The watts to the battery get clipped about 10% to 15% to the battery voltage for the voltage conversion.

So in perfect conditions (that never exist) 1800 watt produced is maybe 1500 watts to the battery or over 100 amps at 14 volts. make sure the controller can handle the amps and volts (Voc) of the string of panels. The MPPT controller will also self limit to the output rating spec. A 30 amp MPPT will only put out 30 amps.

BTW at 30 volts and 8 amps the panels are closer to 240 watts. And voltage will drop some as the power begins to flow. Reality could be closer to 200w panels.

KD4UPL
Explorer
Explorer
Where did you get the 30 volts open circuit and 8 amps numbers? They don't add up. The open circuit voltage of a panel is always higher than it's maximum power voltage. The maximum power voltage multiplied by the maximum power current should equal their rated wattage.
Most 300 watt panels will probably have a Vmp of around 30 and a Voc of around 37. They will usually have a Imp of around 10 amps.
Either way, Vmp x Imp = rated watts. Rated watts / battery charging voltage = potential charging amps. If you really have 6 300 watt panels for a total of 1,800 watts / 12 volts (if the batteries are very low) you could see 150 amps of charge current. I'm really curious what charge controller you have that can handle that much power.
To treat a battery well and make it have a long happy life a charge current of about 10% of capacity is usually recommended. Most people will go up to about 20% of capacity as a good compromise between battery life and quicker recharges. Going up to 25% won't really hurt anything except overall long term battery lifespan and even then it's not that much difference.
I don't think 100 Ah GC batteries exist. They are likely at least 200 Ah if not 225. You'll never be able to get 150 amps to flow into them even if the controller will output that much. The voltage will rise the set point really fast and controller will back off. That's the whole point of a charge controller.
So, I wouldn't worry about hurting the batteries but for the most part that big solar array is going to waste because the batteries (and likely the controller) can't handle it's output.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
If the charge controller is properly set up it will not overcharge the battery bank.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.