NEC 2020 & Receptacles

[vermilye]

For those considering installing a 30 or 50 amp receptacle at home for their RV's, you might check out the changes the 2020 NEC has instituted. Looks like GFCI's will be required on all outdoor receptacles. NEC Increased GFCI Protection

[beemerphile1]

vermilye wrote:
For those considering installing a 30 or 50 amp receptacle at home for their RV's, you might check out the changes the 2020 NEC has instituted. Looks like GFCI's will be required on all outdoor receptacles. NEC Increased GFCI Protection

Nope, according to Mike Sokol it has been put on hold for now and will be reconsidered at next cycle of code review.

[theoldwizard1]

Interesting ! There is actually an exception in the NEC for refrigerators on concrete floors (basement/garage). No GFCI is required if it is a dedicated circuit and a single (not duplex) outlet.

RV stores are going to start selling "No A/C power" alarms !

[westernrvparkow]

sayoung wrote:
I did a little more reading on this and it may be the NEC gets revised to include rv pedastels before it's adopted. Is this a problem that needs a code revision or is it a fix for a non existing problem

Pretty much a non-existent problem. An internet search found one fatality 5 years ago. There was not enough information to determine whether the RV or the pedestal was faulty. I don't believe changes in code are retroactive, so it is much ado about nothing in my opinion. If it was ever mandated, no exceptions, for profitable, up to date, parks not really a life changing issue. For all the others just hanging on????

[MEXICOWANDERER]

What does the NEC say about Ground Eddy Loops? This can happen near the ground set transformers.

[TurnThePage]

So this is as simple as upgrading the breakers in a pedestal?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I'd sure like to read a convincing argument against my chassis and frame bonding to earth ground right at the site. I've seen some mighty strange stuff down here such as line leakage to earth resulting in a shock when touching a properly ground bonded rig. Symptom, barefoot children squealing when stepping onto concrete steps from bare ground. Line voltage leaks into the earth can and will travel through moist earth and contact neutral or earth which can result in a lethal shock.

This is why I never connect before measuring voltage

L1 to L2 to earth ground

L1 and L2 to neutral

Neutral to earth ground.

Newbie US NEC code engineers should have a pass=fail exam that takes place in Mexico.

Like a ship unless I can manually disconnect Quicksilver into having an isolated chassis. With option to manually tie ito earth ground.

[westernrvparkow]

ScottG wrote:
Naturally the company that makes GFCI's want's 50A RV's to be included. They stand to make a ton of money.
Imagine all those RV's tripping them with problem firdges, etc and then going to the CG demanding they "fix" it.

Sounds like a new market out there for isolation XFMR's.

A Dual pole 50amp GFCI breaker is about $90.00 A 30amp single pole GFCI breaker is about $40.00 That would be about $10,000 for a typical 75 site RV Park. The extra employee to handle all the questions and complaints generated by all the haphazardly wired RVs will probably run another $20,000 each season. Then there is the fact that GFCI breakers tend to fail in about 3 years when used outside. Then it is replacement time. All said, nothing that a $5.00 a night rate increase won't cover.

[sayoung]

I did a little more reading on this and it may be the NEC gets revised to include rv pedastels before it's adopted. Is this a problem that needs a code revision or is it a fix for a non existing problem

[road-runner]

Thank you for the info. This one particular article is easily open to being misinterpreted, IMO, unless read and interpreted very carefully.

"The NEC updated the Code for outdoor outlets supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amps or less. Key to this update: it extends beyond receptacle outlets to include all outlets. Now all hard-wired equipment falls under the Code’s purview."

A quick read would let one think it doesn't apply to a 240 volt circuit. A non-electrical person would come to the same conclusion.

Also, I believe most people think "receptacle" and "outlet" are the same thing. I did, until hitting the definitions section just now.

I hope the price of the double-pole GFCI breakers comes down.

[gbopp]

Good info. Thanks for posting.

[CA_Traveler]

ScottG wrote:
Naturally the company that makes GFCI's want's 50A RV's to be included. They stand to make a ton of money.
Imagine all those RV's tripping them with problem firdges, etc and then going to the CG demanding they "fix" it.

Sounds like a new market out there for isolation XFMR's.

Interesting but does that really offer protection? Thinking that a bonded ground around/through the transformer is still required by code and of course there are other grounds like jacks, water lines, cable TV, etc.

Asking because I don't know what code requirements a transformer would require. And perhaps their cost might send RVs to the GFCI repair shop.

[vermilye]

CA Traveler wrote:

NEC wrote:
I believe the NEC should revisit Article 547 for agricultural buildings and Article 551 for RVs and RV parks to address valid shock hazard concerns and consider increasing GFCI protection to 50 amps.

I'm not sure how this statement in the article for future considerations apply to a home RV plug.

After the new regulations in 2020 go into effect you have an electrician install a 30A or 50A plug in your home for your RV. Is he required to use a GFCI or not? I suspect he will be because homes are now required to have GFCIs and of course who knows what a homeowner might plug into their "RV plug".

For example I have a 30A extension cord that I can plug into my 50A RV pedestal (with adapter) to have less voltage drop for using back yard tools. My otherwise outside GFCI plugs are on a 15A GFCI with very long length and 14 gauge wire. ie The very last one located in the garage won't allow my saw to cut hot butter. And it's 100% to code.

I've been able to use my garden tools on my GFCI circuit and it's becoming mute for me as I slowly switch to battery operated tools. That will leave my smoker BBQ which only draws a few amps and some Christmas lights. And yes those lights trip the GFCI when it rains but the protection is there.

The exception for RV parks is in their section of the code - it does not apply to a home receptacle, whether designated for an RV or not.

[vermilye]

Yea, the campgrounds are holding off as long as possible, although I found a couple of Missouri state parks that had GFCIs on their 30 amp pedestal receptacles.

It does look like when the local authority accepts the 2020 code, home 30 & 50 amp receptacles will need GFCIs, and they probably will start appearing in campgrounds in the future. It would be good to check your RV to insure that it will connect to a GFCI without problems.

[CA_Traveler]

NEC wrote:
I believe the NEC should revisit Article 547 for agricultural buildings and Article 551 for RVs and RV parks to address valid shock hazard concerns and consider increasing GFCI protection to 50 amps.

I'm not sure how this statement in the article for future considerations apply to a home RV plug.

After the new regulations in 2020 go into effect you have an electrician install a 30A or 50A plug in your home for your RV. Is he required to use a GFCI or not? I suspect he will be because homes are now required to have GFCIs and of course who knows what a homeowner might plug into their "RV plug".

For example I have a 30A extension cord that I can plug into my 50A RV pedestal (with adapter) to have less voltage drop for using back yard tools. My otherwise outside GFCI plugs are on a 15A GFCI with very long length and 14 gauge wire. ie The very last one located in the garage won't allow my saw to cut hot butter. And it's 100% to code.

I've been able to use my garden tools on my GFCI circuit and it's becoming mute for me as I slowly switch to battery operated tools. That will leave my smoker BBQ which only draws a few amps and some Christmas lights. And yes those lights trip the GFCI when it rains but the protection is there.