Replacing my Converter/Charger - Help

[Steve92004]

Hi Guys/Gals
I have a 25' Weekend Warrior toy hauler and last week in Baja my my Iota DSL-30 converter/charger stopped working
I bought a PowerMax PM4 100A converter/charger to replace it
I was thinking about just putting it in the same spot as the old converter/charger but I started reading around and most said to move it closer to the battery.
It got kind of confusing on how to do that, they said to run power from the breaker that supplies the converter to the new location and use the existing wires to run the power back to the fuse box
I don't get that part
I'm also going to be replacing my one 12v Deep Cycle with two 6 Volt deep cycle batteries, that part makes sense to me
Could somebody help clarify the moving of the converter or if it's just ok to replace the old one in the same place
Thanks!

Here's a picture of what I have, sorry for the multimeter in the way, I took the photo when I was trouble shooting the problem

[MEXICOWANDERER]

To Eliminate A Land Mine !!!

RV battery post connections using wing nuts is "Hey Vern!" foolish.

Purchase a pair of bussbars.

Use a pair of post type CAR to bussbar main cables. This means only two wires to the battery posts. The two new cables.

Having multiple wires running to wing nuts is as hazardous as flashing a pedestrian "HIT ME!" sign in a New York City taxi zone.

Seal up the new cables with silicone dielectric grease. End of problems.

I made A LOT OF MONEY fixing multiple wires to battery post using wingnuts. It's a sure-fire recipe for disaster.

It is possible to get-away-with not using buss bars if an AGM battery is used. But a flooded battery fumes too much.

[BFL13]

Steve92004 wrote:
I set it to 14.8 in manual mode then flipped it into auto
I tried 14.7 also and couldn't get it to hold the same bulk voltage I set in manual to hold in auto.
I'm certain that I only changed voltage while in manual

I don't know what happens if you set 14.8 instead of 14.6 per instructions before going to three stage. The three stage bulk is at 14.6 then at 20 min or later if the batts need more, it drops to 13.6.

I don't know if what you did would cause the erratic voltage you saw. The unit might have developed a fault or not. Anyway Amazon took it back so now you just need to get the PD set up.

[Steve92004]

I set it to 14.8 in manual mode then flipped it into auto
I tried 14.7 also and couldn't get it to hold the same bulk voltage I set in manual to hold in auto.
I'm certain that I only changed voltage while in manual

[time2roll]

I would just connect the 9270 and not worry about pulling wire if you have #4 to the battery.
Just use #4 to the panel and call it good.

In the end I think life will be better with the automatic 9270 over constantly fiddling with the PowerMax.

[BFL13]

Not clear what happened. If you set 14.8 that must have been in single mode. There is no 30 minutes in single mode, only in three-stage mode. Before going to three stage mode you are supposed to set 14.6 while in single mode, so the three stages will have their proper voltages when you switch over to three stage.

If it is in three stage mode and you set 14.8 (use the voltage pot) it will screw up all the voltages, as it warns in the instructions.

However, it is also possible to have a faulty unit, and it is good they are taking it back for you. The PD 70 amper will be ok for amps with a pair of 6s too, except for doing the 14.8.

ISTR Mr Wizard on here has a PD 70 about 15 ft from his batteries and he can say what wire and voltage drop he gets.

[Steve92004]

I ended up sending the 75 LK back
I was testing it and it started acting erratic
I set it to 14.8V and it jumped to 15.5 after a minute and after the 30 minutes it only decreased .6 volts
I tried several times and it was all over the map
I didn't want to take a chance of it frying some of my electronics or the batteries
They gave me credit and they have a decent deal on the Progressive Dynamics PD-9270C with the pendant included
I'm hoping it's not too much for the 2 GC2 batteries
I think I'm also going to chuck the #4 cable I bought and going to run #2
the #4 I bought was copper THHN and it's stiff, should I use a more flexible cable?
Also when I said I had #8 wire stock that's what was coming out of the converter, At the battery it's #4 so it changes somewhere along the way. Two # 8's from both pos neg, one of each going to the battery and the others going to the dc panel
Thanks for all the help!

[BFL13]

It is frustrating not to know the complete list of the various new LKs and what they each do exactly. Once PM gets out their new website, I hope this will become clear.

Joel, good news on the batteries.

[Joel_T]

BFL I have the earlier PM3 75LK and it only adjusts from 13-15.5v That's the only thing I noticed different in the manual too...the range on Steves said 13-16.5v. One warning Steve. Be vewy vewy careful using the on/off switch from single to three stage. It is fragile....don't know that I "stabbed away in the dark" : -), but I did break it. Fortunately it was set to single stage/adjustable and I've no use for the 3 stage capability. I'd highly suggest BFLs suggestion of opening up those tiny access holes for better access. It's easy to remove the cover to do that. (BFL my batts seem to have made a fair recovery. One cell's a bit low but the other 5 are 1.275S+-SG and are tolerating loads typically.....so far.

[Steve92004]

BFL13 wrote:
"here's a question, can I makeup for voltage drop just by adjusting the voltage so it's 14.6 at the battery end of the cables? "

Yes except you want 14.8 on your 6s. However once amps taper, the voltage drop isn't so bad, so now the battery post voltage will go up a bit. No big deal in the cold when you want higher voltages.

14.8 is for 77F/25C so if it is hotter out than that, you want to use slightly lower voltages anyway as "temperature compensation."

BTW please edit out-delete my quoted stuff from your 7:23 post so we don't confuse folks reading all this later with that wrong info. Thanks.

This is fascinating stuff

[BFL13]

"here's a question, can I makeup for voltage drop just by adjusting the voltage so it's 14.6 at the battery end of the cables? "

Yes except you want 14.8 on your 6s. However once amps taper, the voltage drop isn't so bad, so now the battery post voltage will go up a bit. No big deal in the cold when you want higher voltages.

14.8 is for 77F/25C so if it is hotter out than that, you want to use slightly lower voltages anyway as "temperature compensation."

BTW please edit out-delete my quoted stuff from your 7:23 post so we don't confuse folks reading all this later with that wrong info. Thanks.

[Steve92004]

BFL13 wrote:

Steve92004 wrote:



I thought you wanted me to put it in automatic mode for the test
I redid the test in manual mode and it stayed 16.6 for an hour until I turned it off

My question is do these adjustable models sense voltage and react accordingly?
Like if I plug into shore power in three stage mode when the battery is full is the charger going to dump bulk voltage into it regardless?

Yes, but only for half an hour so no harm done. Then it drops to 13.6

OK starting over. 🙂 So my question was what does it do on single adj and does it go to 16.5? Answer is yes it goes to 16.5 and it DOES NOT drop after half an hour. Great!!! Perfect- just what is wanted. so you can pick 14.8 and walk away and just be back when the batteries are done so you can switch down to 13.6. Or if you are doing a 50-90, just pull the plug on the charger and shut off the gen at your 90.

OK, so your question is what does it do in the three stage mode? Answer is it goes through its routine automatically, you don't have to do a thing. It starts at 14.6, stays there for half an hour and drops a volt to 13.6 and stays there for 12 hours before dropping to 13.2---except if you keep running things in your rig, AFAIK it stays at 13.6 and won't drop to 13.2 until 12hrs after you stop using things in the rig.

I will delete the stuff I posted before thinking it did drop in single adj after half an hour. Please edit/delete my wrong stuff that is quoted in your 7:23 post since I can't do that with your post.

We are getting there, sort of! 🙂

Here's another thing--the older PMs doing three stage always did the first 15 minutes at 14.6 and then if the battery voltage was up to 14.4ish by then, it dropped to 13.6 BUT--if the battery voltage was still under that by then, it stayed on at 14.6 until the batteries did get near 14.6 and then dropped to 13.6

Sooo--what does this one do when the half hour is up and the batteries are not yet up to 14.4ish? Does it keep going at 14.6 till they are,(as it should, IMO) which might take hours depending on the size of the bank and the amps of the charger, or does it drop to 13.6 anyway, so you need to pick ADJ mode to get the job done?

To test for that , you would need your 6s way down (35-40%) in SOC and start off in three stage and note what happens after the half hour--stays at 14.6 or not? (at 50% they would reach near 14.6 in half an hour anyway, so you would not be able to say what did it)

Ok sounds good
here's a question, can I makeup for voltage drop just by adjusting the voltage so it's 14.6 at the battery end of the cables?

[BFL13]

Steve92004 wrote:



I thought you wanted me to put it in automatic mode for the test
I redid the test in manual mode and it stayed 16.6 for an hour until I turned it off

My question is do these adjustable models sense voltage and react accordingly?
Like if I plug into shore power in three stage mode when the battery is full is the charger going to dump bulk voltage into it regardless?

Yes, but only for half an hour so no harm done. Then it drops to 13.6

OK starting over. 🙂 So my question was what does it do on single adj and does it go to 16.5? Answer is yes it goes to 16.5 and it DOES NOT drop after half an hour. Great!!! Perfect- just what is wanted. so you can pick 14.8 and walk away and just be back when the batteries are done so you can switch down to 13.6. Or if you are doing a 50-90, just pull the plug on the charger and shut off the gen at your 90.

OK, so your question is what does it do in the three stage mode? Answer is it goes through its routine automatically, you don't have to do a thing. It starts at 14.6, stays there for half an hour and drops a volt to 13.6 and stays there for 12 hours before dropping to 13.2---except if you keep running things in your rig, AFAIK it stays at 13.6 and won't drop to 13.2 until 12hrs after you stop using things in the rig.

I will delete the stuff I posted before thinking it did drop in single adj after half an hour. Please edit/delete my wrong stuff that is quoted in your 7:23 post since I can't do that with your post.

We are getting there, sort of! 🙂

Here's another thing--the older PMs doing three stage always did the first 15 minutes at 14.6 and then if the battery voltage was up to 14.4ish by then, it dropped to 13.6 BUT--if the battery voltage was still under that by then, it stayed on at 14.6 until the batteries did get near 14.6 and then dropped to 13.6

Sooo--what does this one do when the half hour is up and the batteries are not yet up to 14.4ish? Does it keep going at 14.6 till they are,(as it should, IMO) which might take hours depending on the size of the bank and the amps of the charger, or does it drop to 13.6 anyway, so you need to pick ADJ mode to get the job done?

To test for that , you would need your 6s way down (35-40%) in SOC and start off in three stage and note what happens after the half hour--stays at 14.6 or not? (at 50% they would reach near 14.6 in half an hour anyway, so you would not be able to say what did it)

[Steve92004]

I thought you wanted me to put it in automatic mode for the test
I redid the test in manual mode and it stayed 16.6 for an hour until I turned it off

My question is do these adjustable models sense voltage and react accordingly?
Like if I plug into shore power in three stage mode when the battery is full is the charger going to dump bulk voltage into it regardless?

[BFL13]

DrewE wrote:

Steve92004 wrote:

I turned it up all the way and it's at 16.6V
The instructions say it should stay at the set level for a half hour and the decrease and stay at that level for two hours, and then decrease to float level

I thought smart chargers were supposed to work on voltage not timing

Edit.... It dropped to 15.8 after 30 minutes

They can't work on changing voltage while supplying a fixed voltage. All the unit will ever see when set at 16.6 V is 16.6 V (assuming it can supply enough power to maintain that voltage level, of course).

What it could theoretically do is monitor current and drop based on reduced current, but house loads would mess that up unless it sensed the battery current rather than its output current. Alternately, it could turn off the charging momentarily every now and then and see what voltage the system is resting at, which would lead to flickering/flashing lights and probably not be any too accurate due to surface charge on the battery.

Without actual battery instrumentation to more accurately monitor its state of charge based on usage, resting voltage, etc., a timer setup in combination with some rough voltage and current triggers is probably about as good as can be reasonably done by an RV converter.

Actually--- Iota stays at 14.8 until battery voltage reaches 14.6 waits 15 minutes, then drops to 14.2 for eight hours, then to 13.6 So it can tell what the battery voltage is getting to while it is still charging--perhaps by really feeling the increasing resistance, don't know.

Same with PowerMax regular models. They stay at 14.6 (or 14.4 some of them) and when battery voltage reaches near 14.6 or at 15 minutes from starting , which ever comes later, it drops to 13.6.

PDs will stay at 14.4 for four hours and then drop to 13.6 but if the battery is nearly full at around 97% SOC earlier, it drops to 13.6 then,

Vector portable chargers charge at 14.6 or 8 depending on model until battery voltage hits 14 (or 13.9 with some)--so they can tell when that is. This triggers a change of stage where now amps start to taper from being constant till then. With tapering amps the battery voltage continues to rise until at about 97% SOC and 14.6 or 8, the charger shuts itself off. (no float stage)

Early Xantrex chargers did like the Vector, but had the float stage and stayed on, so you could use them as converters. they had an optional two stage feature where you could pick not to have the float stage and it would shut off same as a Vector. Reason was they were onto the idea that deep cycle batts don't much like being floated for long periods, so you could opt out.

[BFL13]

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