Solar or Generator??

[Ramblin_Recks]

We are going to have some short boon-docking trips (3-4 days). I do not know my actual energy needs right now, but the DW and I are conservative when it comes to water and power. I really just want to get the biggest return on my $1400.00 budget for this project.

So initially I plan to get 2 T-145s, Trimetric monitor, and then I get bogged down solar or generator…

If it is a generator, I’m leaning towards a Honda EU2000i, or a Yamaha EF2400SHC and a new converter/charger (like maybe PowerMax PM4B Boondocker).

I’m thinking the generator is more versatile and could be used for other tasks than charging the batteries. I know I need to carry gasoline, but that’s ok.

If its solar, I’m thinking this system is “set-it and forget-it”, once it is installed making it easy to keep the batteries charged… but only to charge batteries. I think I would need to buy 4 T-145s (or 105) for solar. Then I start

thinking about my pin weight, I have not got mine weighed yet , but 4 batteries would be about 250-300 lbs., and we added the W/D Stack in the front closet. My BFT can handle it, but I like to keep the “weight police” at bay ;).

Solar or Generator??

Thanks for your thoughts.

[pnichols]

mena661 wrote:
Nope! I read about them here and in searches. If you're interested, feel free to do the same.

I knew you would say that ... I was just giving you a chance to defend your comments, using references, about there being non-generator camp sites that nevertheless still allow RVs to use the campsites. I was assuming that you were referring to national public lands drycamping.

I'm not interested in researching these kind of campsites because if we ever find ourselves in one, I'll just "cheat" and top up batteries with the V10 and hope that the other campers can't smell it's hot catalytic converter ... cuz they won't be able to hear that engine idling. 😉

[NinerBikes]

Never say "no" to the generator option, unless you're willing to perhaps have to cut a trip short, or hit the full hook ups, or upgrade your solar panel in a big way, or... make up what ever exception makes you comfortable.

[pnichols]

Let's talk about getting on board with some generator religion for a minute, as I have an extra soapbox I haven't found an otherwise use for:

- If you're a drycamper, it's ridiculous to spend all your hard-earned money on an expensive RV and then quibble over not equipping it with a generator that you actually use.

- If you're a drycamper, it's ridiculous to spend all your hard-earned money on an expensive RV box and then camp all bundled up in it, or sweating in front of a fan in it, so as to conserve electricity because the batteries' storage capacity and/or solar output isn't enough on certain days to keep up with furnace and/or fan draw ... let alone not even begin to run an air conditioner.

- If you're a solar person, how do you crawl around on your roof repairing and maintaining all the other stuff up there like you're supposed to do ... with the panels in the way?

- If you're a solar person with screw-on panels, how do you crawl around on your roof to get at (all of) the screw holes so as to keep them freshly sealed due to the sealant continuously drying out and cracking from all that exposure to the sun?

- If you're a low-noise charging person with a big-buck Class A, it's ridiculous after spending all that $$$ to not spend the additional $4000-$7000 for an ultra-flexible 24/7 marine grade fuel cell charging system instead of a solar system that requires sun.

- If you're a non-generator solar person and get caught in a freak Midwestern large-ball hail storm ... what's your electrical energy replenishment Plan B to get by until you can have cracked solar panels replaced?

- ... never mind ... now I'm really getting absurd. Time to burn the soap box.

Even though all this is great fun, pontificating is a poor substitute for some real boondocking - with generators of course. 🙂

[BFL13]

Anti-gen is the new Religion and anyone who has one is evil. 🙂

We got ours in the first place to run the air conditioner in case the dogs got over-heated, which they will if they are keen and it is too hot while they are 'working' during their events. They don't stop and will die trying. You can toss them in a pool of water to save their lives but having air conditioning is also a good thing.

So in between dog events where sometimes we have to park on asphalt at over 90F (Abbotsford eg) it turns out where we just RV camp there is no need for air conditioning but we do have the Honda 3000. So we use it. So that must mean we are evil, non-green, and should be banned from all RVing! We must have it because we can't survive without it, being such sissy city-dudes. 🙂

Sorry about that! Which all goes to say it is not about morality, it is about the technical aspects of getting by off-grid.

[Redsky]

Solar is set it up and forget about it completely. A 100 Watt panel will easily keep a 110 AH battery at 100% of charge and it will do it when the camper is not in use.

I passed on a generator that would require taking up valuable storage space and needing to carry a gasoline canister and having to babysit it while it was charging the batteries. I don't want to have to run the generator for a couple hours or longer in the morning to recharge the batteries. With solar the charging is taken care of whether we are at the camper or off hiking or fishing or whatever.

Generators are fine for people who cannot take the heat or can't cook without a microwave. For keeping batteries recharged it is the worst solution I can think of by a long shot. With two batteries pre-solar we could go 3-4 days and have them at 50% or more DOD and then recharge while driving and using the truck's generator or pulling into a campground with hookups for a night.

Adding a second battery if your RV only has one is the first step and the least expensive to do as it makes use of your existing charging systems. The Trimetric is the second step so you can accurately monitor their charge state.

[Ramblin_Recks]

eb145 wrote:
Wow - what a great thread. Lots of great information exchanged.

OP, I am in a similar situation as you I think. I do 3 or 4 day dry camping trips a few times each year. I have a TT with All LED lights. We use about 24 AHs per day.

I have a single 140W solar panel and no generator. About once a year (due to heavy shaded site) I just use my jumper cables to charge the TT batteries from the Truck alternator. For my use (2 hours per year) it is simpler than owning, operating and maintaining a generator.

During the hot summer time I only camp at electric sites so I can run my AC.

Anyway, this is what works for me right now.

Ed

Agreed, good discussion and it is appreciated. A generator is in my immediate future, and solar will be based upon usage and the amount of times my DW says "why don't we have solar" (which has been once so far,and based upon experience, 3 times is carte blanche :C )

[eb145]

Wow - what a great thread. Lots of great information exchanged.

OP, I am in a similar situation as you I think. I do 3 or 4 day dry camping trips a few times each year. I have a TT with All LED lights. We use about 24 AHs per day.

I have a single 140W solar panel and no generator. About once a year (due to heavy shaded site) I just use my jumper cables to charge the TT batteries from the Truck alternator. For my use (2 hours per year) it is simpler than owning, operating and maintaining a generator.

During the hot summer time I only camp at electric sites so I can run my AC.

Anyway, this is what works for me right now.

Ed

[mena661]

pnichols wrote:
Thanks much ... in advance.

Nope! I read about them here and in searches. If you're interested, feel free to do the same.

[pnichols]

mena661 wrote:
Some is a good description INSIDE the state of California but not everywhere else.

Mena,

Would you please list at least one-half dozen national public land areas (NOT "National Parks/Monuments" - but BLM, NFS, COE, etc.. administered lands) where RVs are permitted to drycamp, but do not allow any generator use? If possible list them such that I can research them over the Net to confirm under what conditions the "no generator" rules apply.

Thanks much ... in advance.

[mena661]

pnichols wrote:


Of course, statistically there are "some" campgrounds that don't allow generators but can still squeeze in RVs over 22 feet or larger. "Some" is more than zero, but these kind of campgrounds are in the minority on an overall national basis - especially in the Southwest U.S. and Southeast U.S. where extreme heat and/or extreme humidity are common.

I knew you would say this. Some is a good description INSIDE the state of California but not everywhere else.

[pnichols]

mena661 wrote:
Of course there are CG's that don't allow generators that fit RV's (that includes motorhomes). There are even CG's that say they allow generators but highly discourage their use (ie they don't allow them). It seems to be a slowly growing trend.

Of course, statistically there are "some" campgrounds that don't allow generators but can still squeeze in RVs over 22 feet or larger. "Some" is more than zero, but these kind of campgrounds are in the minority on an overall national basis - especially in the Southwest U.S. and Southeast U.S. where extreme heat and/or extreme humidity are common. With gl*b*l warming and the volatile weather that accompanies it coming to the forefront the need for camping in the shade with A/C due to heat or charging batteries with no sun is only going to increase, IMHO. Good luck with those scenarios in an RV sporting only solar on board. Of course one can always try, by guess and by golly, to always tailor their RV trips so as to try and miss these situations. We prefer and need more flexibility than that during our RV trips.

We have indeed camped inside Yellowstone in the forest in our Class C in one of the park's no generator campgrounds in the Northern end of the park. We didn't spend enough time camping in the shaded campsite to need our generators, or an idling V10, and of course Yellowstone is rarely hot enough for air conditioning anyway, due to it's average altitude. In fact we'll never camp inside Yellowstone again - it's too crowded inside the park boundaries. If we get there again, we'll camp outside and come in during the day to visit.

I'm in no way against solar - just not for having only it along to charge batteries and otherwise supply electrical energy when parked. If we add solar, it'll be movable solar so we can keep the rig in the shade whenever the weather is warm on sunny days and a shaded campsite is available.

Generous relatives, who no longer needed them, gave us the two portable Honda generators that we have (we carry only the EX650 in the RV due to it's very low noise level when delivering 30-35 amps). Hopefully fuel cells will come down in price - especially propane powered ones - so as to be more competitive with equivalently sized solar RV setups. 🙂

[EsoxLucius]

NinerBikes wrote:
Where was I, when generators were being given away for free?

I got one given to me in pieces in a box once.

[NinerBikes]

Where was I, when generators were being given away for free?

[mena661]

pnichols wrote:

Firstly, I've noticed that most campgrounds that don't allow generators also don't have room for motorhomes because they're old tenting campgrounds.

You just love trying to make things fit that don't. You crack me up! LOL! Of course there are CG's that don't allow generators that fit RV's (that includes motorhomes). There are even CG's that say they allow generators but highly discourage their use (ie they don't allow them). It seems to be a slowly growing trend. CA, quite surprisingly, has some of the most generous generator rules I've seen anywhere in the country (and outside the country). There's one the DW and I want to go to inside Yellowstone. The pics I've seen afford some really great views and I can only imagine the quiet there. Oh, and they can fit 40 footers.

Indian Creek CG

[pnichols]

JiminDenver wrote:
And Just what would some of you do in a CG that didn't allow generators?

Firstly, I've noticed that most campgrounds that don't allow generators also don't have room for motorhomes because they're old tenting campgrounds. Are there campgrounds that have room for and allow motorhomes, but don't allow generators? In any case, I know of one mostly tenting section in one local campground that doesn't allow generators and doesn't prohibit RVs - we have camped in that section in one of the sites in it large enough for our small motorhome. The spot was fully shaded so solar wouldn't have worked well there at all. For those situations, I can idle the V10 to charge the batteries.

Almot wrote:
People that already have a genny, are trying to justify its cost - which ironically can only be done by spending more...

The little 650 watt portable Honda we carry in the motorhome was given to us. We last summer also had a 1000 watt Honda EX1000 in immaculate condition (maybe two hours run time) given to us that I use around the property for remote power. Used EX650 Honda generators can be found in good condition for $200-$350 ... at those prices no solar setup that can supply the same ~30 amps for battery charging can compete - other than for full-timers camping in the Southwest desert for weeks on end.

All IMHO, of course.