Solar or Generator??

[Ramblin_Recks]

We are going to have some short boon-docking trips (3-4 days). I do not know my actual energy needs right now, but the DW and I are conservative when it comes to water and power. I really just want to get the biggest return on my $1400.00 budget for this project.

So initially I plan to get 2 T-145s, Trimetric monitor, and then I get bogged down solar or generator…

If it is a generator, I’m leaning towards a Honda EU2000i, or a Yamaha EF2400SHC and a new converter/charger (like maybe PowerMax PM4B Boondocker).

I’m thinking the generator is more versatile and could be used for other tasks than charging the batteries. I know I need to carry gasoline, but that’s ok.

If its solar, I’m thinking this system is “set-it and forget-it”, once it is installed making it easy to keep the batteries charged… but only to charge batteries. I think I would need to buy 4 T-145s (or 105) for solar. Then I start

thinking about my pin weight, I have not got mine weighed yet , but 4 batteries would be about 250-300 lbs., and we added the W/D Stack in the front closet. My BFT can handle it, but I like to keep the “weight police” at bay ;).

Solar or Generator??

Thanks for your thoughts.

[2oldman]

pnichols wrote:
... screw-on panels, how do you crawl around on your roof to get at (all of) the screw holes so as to keep them freshly sealed due to the sealant continuously drying out and cracking from all that exposure to the sun?

Some of my panels have been on for 8 years with no sealant problems at all. I don't crawl, I walk. Panels properly spaced allow for walking.

At 9:19pm I had to remind my neighbor that generator hours are over at 9. Of course they always pretend they don't know.

[JiminDenver]

What, you don't think it gets cloudy in Sunny Colorado? We had two monsoons last year and that meant weeks at a time without sun.

What is wrong with being able to handle a bit of cold and cloudy? We did four days of cloudy and colder than that with just a grp 27 and the panel. Tie in the inverters 8-D and a week is no sweat. BTW, we were not slumming it either. The stat was at 74*, we lite the rig from end to end at night and ran the TV/DVD player all the time to drown out the generators.

That's why my system is portable. I'm never on my roof and I can follow the sun for peak amps all day, even if the rig is in the shade. Both panels can do up to 30 amps all day with sun and 7 amps in the clouds.

Sleeping bag in an $$$ RV ... ridiculous, IMHO. I keep sleeping bags packed away where they belong with my other backpacking gear ... waiting for the next High Sierras trip.

Who cares how someone else camps? I prefer a nice down comforter.

My thought was always that if you can hear my generator while boondocking, you are too close. The dry CG was different though. We were packed in and could hear each of those generators inside our trailer. We would have heard yours too.

This is all in fun of course! (... until there's too many cloudy days in a row like we see all the time when we're visiting relatives in Washington ... then the fun stops)


There is a downside to everything and that's why a balanced system works best for us. Lock yourself into just batteries, just solar or even just generators and there will be a time when you are screwed.

We see post where the generator refuses to start, stay running or the MH gas tank is below a quarter tank. Sometimes the batteries are so low they can't even start the MH to charge off of the engine. What do you do in that situation? Wish you had your sleeping bag back?

[Snowman9000]

Well, if a person has a multi-battery bank, and a typcial OEM converter-charger, they ARE going to have to run the genset throughout the evening or some similar period, to charge. So that one shouldn't be surprising.

My first mod to our new Class C is going to be a good converter.
Since we like shade, and since our 2x50w folding kit stores in only 2' square by 3"thick, and since I own another pair of those in a box, I'm going to make up the second pair as another portable kit.
Then I'm still going to put some permanent wattage on the roof. If I decide simply by dollar cost-benefit, it would be either zero or one panel. But sometimes we do things just for the luxury of it, so if I go that route, my current thinking is, I will put 300w. I mean, once I'm rigging up for any permanent panel, it's not that much more work or money to add another panel or two, IMO.

I reserve the right to change my mind a few more times. 🙂

[pnichols]

Almot,

Apparently #1 you have some way around drycamping for a week or more in conditions like BFL13 shows in his "Good luck with any solar here" photo on page 4 of 6 in this thread. I hope it's not the usual "I have battery capacity XX big enough to get by ... or my panels put out XX amps per hour even under grey skies ..." kind of arguments.

Apparently #2 you've never not-heard my Honda EX650 battery charging genny. You just might find yourself amazed. These can still be found for 1% of the cost of even a used TT ... or in my case for free.

First off, you're not supposed to "walk" on RV roofs ... you'd better be on hands and knees up there to distribute your weight. I'd like to see you move around solar panels to get at stuff on my waxed slippery fiberglass nicely crowned dangerous-to-be-near-the-edges RV roof.

Sleeping bag in an $$$ RV ... ridiculous, IMHO. I keep sleeping bags packed away where they belong with my other backpacking gear ... waiting for the next High Sierras trip.

So you canoe in the evenings when out and about camping in your RV? I don't ... I read books, watch movies, play board games, sort rocks/minerals/fossils, etc. in complete 72 degree comfort and top up the AGM batteries accordingly about every 3rd day with the little genny you'd better not be able to hear because you had better be camped farther away than that.

This is all in fun of course! (... until there's too many cloudy days in a row like we see all the time when we're visiting relatives in Washington ... then the fun stops)

[Almot]

Assuming the quoted below really meant questions that he needed answers to...

pnichols wrote:

- If you're a drycamper, it's ridiculous to spend all your hard-earned money on an expensive RV and then quibble over not equipping it with a generator that you actually use.

A lot of "ifs". Yes, ridiculous, if:
- If RV is expensive. For many, generator is 15-20% of the RV cost and then it is generator that is relatively expensive, isn't it?
- If you actually use it, AND use it not for reasons of ignorance or excuses like "have it therefore must use it", but for objective factors like too hot, or too rainy, or no room for panel and batteries.

pnichols wrote:
- If you're a drycamper, it's ridiculous to spend all your hard-earned money on an expensive RV box and then camp all bundled up in it, or sweating in front of a fan in it, so as to conserve electricity because the batteries' storage capacity and/or solar output isn't enough on certain days to keep up with furnace and/or fan draw ... let alone not even begin to run an air conditioner.

Again "expensive RV box", see 1st paragraph.

When there is not enough room for batteries or big panel in rainy climates, then you can not rely on a solar and then the question "solar or generator" is mute. It then becomes more a question of sleeping bag VS furnace, good canoeing VS watching movies, or PNW vs AZ. A separate topic.

Airconditioner can not be run on solar, if this has to be repeated again.

pnichols wrote:
- If you're a solar person with screw-on panels, how do you crawl around on your roof to get at (all of) the screw holes so as to keep them freshly sealed due to the sealant continuously drying out and cracking from all that exposure to the sun?

Why wouldn't you go and ask "them"? Solar persons, I mean 🙂 ... Or check the list of completed solar projects posted here, and see how they mount it. The biggest panel that a man can lift is 3.5ft*5ft. RV is slightly bigger. So there is a room to walk around panels. One side of the panel is usually close enough to inspect it from the step-ladder, without climbing the roof.

One other thing that solar persons would tell you, is that mostly it is manufacturer's sloppy sealant work on things other than panels that needs checking. OTH, sealant on panel mounts is applied by user, which means - properly, and often is under the panel, i.e. not in the sun.

pnichols wrote:
- If you're a low-noise charging person with a big-buck Class A, it's ridiculous after spending all that $$$ to not spend the additional $4000-$7000...

I forgot after the first 10 pages - and after not reading this highly informative discussion for a while - who was that mystery man? I think the OP asked about "the biggest return on their $1400 budget".

pnichols wrote:
- If you're a non-generator solar person and get caught in a freak Midwestern large-ball hail storm ... what's your electrical energy replenishment Plan B to get by until you can have cracked solar panels replaced?

Some assumed "ifs" again.
-If it's a Midwest and there is a hail storm bad enough to damage the panels.
-If they can't drive home or to the nearest hook-up camp.
-If they are not prepared for a 5-6 days blackout. Blackout supplies and equipment that require no generator, don't cost much and some of them you already have in your home or your RV. I am sure there isn't much need to educate people on things that basic.

FYI, most post-hail troubles with panels in such areas mean removing and re-attaching the panels to let roofers repair the damaged roof shingles. Not to say that panel damage is impossible.

pnichols wrote:
Time to burn the soap box.

Now you are talking.

[Almot]

JiminDenver wrote:
The one and only time we were in a dry campground, I was shocked at how much they ran the generators. .... I don't care if it was only 58 DB, it got annoying after awhile.

Without a good enclosure any generator is annoying after a while. I think you would be even more shocked at how many of them have solar on the roof 🙂 ... And they still run generators, even when it's sunny and not hot. Why - God knows.

"Occasional", "half hour tops" running a generator in desert - 2 posts above - is yet more puzzling. A/C is rarely used "half hour tops", so those people were probably not running A/C. There is no dense tree canopy in desert, and normally - no rain or overcast. Appears to be a perfect scenario to have and use a mid-size solar - cheaper, quieter, no smell. But many don't. Why - God knows... Some that I talked to, were ignorant, they had had genny for years and kept on using it because they didn't know anything else (and sometimes didn't want to know). Some were not people that would make sense talking to.

[JiminDenver]

The one and only time we were in a dry campground, I was shocked at how much they ran the generators. The three MH's ran them at breakfast and again from dinner to bed time. One 5th wheel ran his Honda 3000 day and night unless he was out hunting. I don't care if it was only 58 DB, it got annoying after awhile.

[mena661]

pnichols wrote:

Excellent post that realy says it like it is and should be!!!

I agree, that was a good post. I know I'd be a LOT more tolerant if genny owners were just more courteous. A couple weekends ago the DW and I visited a county park that allows horse camping. They have a FHU CG but the horse stuff is boondocking only. The park put us right beside the only other people there and they were running their genny. Didn't think anything of it at first except being put right beside the only other campers. DW asks the park if we can move about 1/4 mile away and they let us. Good thing, cause they ran that genny EVERY day, ALL day AND ALL night. The only time it was off was when they refilled it with gas. I've never seen anyone run a genny that much before.

[pnichols]

Simplygib wrote:
A lot of generator-phobic folks would probably not have such a big issue with them if SOME generator owners thought about their neighbors a little more and of themselves a little less. I'm in the desert now, rigs in the area dispersed anywhere from a hundred yards to a quarter mile from each other. One of the best things about the desert is how it can be dead silent. This place never ceases to amaze me in that the majority of the time folks with generators seem to use them when they need them, then turn them off. Half hour tops. There's none of this "turn it on at 6am and off at midnight" going on out here. It's so refreshing, and hearing the occasional generator isn't so bad knowing it's serving a purpose that isn't going to last all day and into the night. In places that are so hot that people need to run a/c all day, I really don't care because I won't camp there.

Consideration for others. It might be endangered, but it's good to know it's not totally dead yet.

Excellent post that realy says it like it is and should be!!!

We only drycamp in hot places when we "have no choice" due to specific rocks/minerals/fossils we might be looking for. However we do have a drycamping RV that can deal with the heat, just in case. When we do need A/C in Southwestern desert conditions we don't usually need it all day - from 10AM to maybe 4PM will usually be adequate on the hottest of Southwestern low humidity days. When one WOULD need A/C drycamping all day, and maybe all night, is in the Southeastern U.S. during their humid summers. We know this from personal experience on long RV trips there during summers. Fortunately, a lot of campsites in the Southeastern U.S. are full hookup sites.

We were fortunate in that Winnebago installed a generator system in our RV model that can actually be used without being super irritating to nearby campers .... who themselves may be using their generators for A/C at the same time. Our generator is quiet enough to sleep while it's running, the RV exterior is mostly white color to reflect the sun, has thick roof insulation, and has a fully ducted A/C system for good cool air distribution.

[Simplygib]

A lot of generator-phobic folks would probably not have such a big issue with them if SOME generator owners thought about their neighbors a little more and of themselves a little less. I'm in the desert now, rigs in the area dispersed anywhere from a hundred yards to a quarter mile from each other. One of the best things about the desert is how it can be dead silent. This place never ceases to amaze me in that the majority of the time folks with generators seem to use them when they need them, then turn them off. Half hour tops. There's none of this "turn it on at 6am and off at midnight" going on out here. It's so refreshing, and hearing the occasional generator isn't so bad knowing it's serving a purpose that isn't going to last all day and into the night. In places that are so hot that people need to run a/c all day, I really don't care because I won't camp there.

Consideration for others. It might be endangered, but it's good to know it's not totally dead yet.

[mena661]

BFL13 wrote:
We must have it because we can't survive without it, being such sissy city-dudes. 🙂

LOL!

pnichols wrote:
I knew you would say that ...

LOL! :B

12thgenusa wrote:
As with most things on this forum, it's about what works for you.

BAM!

[time2roll]

Progression for many:

Home Depot generator
Champion generator
Honda/Yamaha
More battery
better converter
Inverter
Solar
More solar

Skip right to the More Solar & Inverter and life is so much easier.
Otherwise at least skip the noisy generators.

[12thgenusa]

It's not about right or wrong, being green, conservative or extravagant. As with most things on this forum, it's about what works for you. Everyone's needs are unique and different. The tendency is to believe one's way is the only way and to dismiss out of hand other folk's experiences. What works for me in the sunny high elevation of Colorado may not work for someone in the shady woods of Virginia.

However, it's very nice being freed from the tyranny of generator hours and all that goes with that. 🙂

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Nothing wrong with options. I do use the following for battery charging and in this order:

A. solar
B. Alternator
C. Alternator and converter (powering the converter from the alternator via an inverter)
D. Shore power
E. in distant last place Generator.

So far, the generator has only been used for opportunity charging when exercising the generator once a month, or when it is too hot and the roof air needs to be run. I.E. it has never been purposely run to recharge the battery bank.

[JiminDenver]

It's not about one or the other or some of both. It's about meeting your needs as best you can.

I prefer options. I like the silence of the panel but I'm not suffering for it. I don't mind the heat but I hate being cold. We set the stat at 74f and if the solar and the batteries can't keep up, that's why we have the Champ. If it fails, we have the jumper cables and the Expy is a lot quieter than the champ.

The discussion is fun but no one is right or wrong.