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Surge protection INSIDE the camper?

okwaterdog
Explorer
Explorer
I recently had a problem that cost me my converter, microwave, television, vcr and the sound system. I am lucky the refrigerator and a/c's weren't damaged. Yes I do have a surge protector at the outlet, but the problem was caused by a bad plug on the rv's power cord.

Before I replace everything, wanted to see if there is any type of surge protector that can go between the outlet and the item (for example the microwave)....?? It would have to be small, would fit into the 110 and then the microwave would plug into it.

I'd rather not have this happen again.
2000' Airstream, Suburu toad
Willie and friends lucky enough to ride along
55 REPLIES 55

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Don, is your custom-made surge protector a spike protector only?

With autoformer like Sola (or any other similar autoformer) you probably don't want a device like Hughes EMS upstream of Sola. Hughes EMS shuts down when input drops below 105V or shoots higher than 135V. Sola is keeping 110-120V output with input ranging from 95 to 135V (and somewhat corrects beyond this range), so there is no need to interrupt. An EMS with cut-off points at 80V and 150V would make sense in this case, IMO.

Bobbo
Explorer II
Explorer II
westom wrote:
But protector that can protect from that anomaly must be connected low impedance (as short as possible) to earth ground. That means connected at the pole.

I am not an electronics guy, so this is not an argument, but a request for information. Does your sentence above mean that the EMS needs to be directly earth grounded at the pole? Are any of the portable EMS units equipped to be directly earth grounded? Aren't they all only grounded through the ground pin that goes back to the main breaker panel where they are then earth grounded? If that is so, then your assertion that the unit mounted at the pole offers additional protection over the hard wired units is false.

Or, am I misunderstanding what you said?
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab w/Max Tow Package 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Airstream Flying Cloud 23FB

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
pianotuna wrote:
Hughes has only two layers of boost.
Only one really.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Yep. And no buck.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hughes has only two layers of boost.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

SoundGuy
Explorer
Explorer
Almot wrote:
Other than (unavailable in the US) Sola, I would like to hear more about good autoformers. For this particular task Hughes will work, but a good autoformer it is not.


Just asking - can you detail why you believe this to be the case? :h
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
SoundGuy wrote:
if there's anything to be concerned about it's excessively low voltage when the campground's power system is being heavily stressed by all those A/Cs running and big rigs wired with 50 amp service that are running everything under the sun. That's where a good EMS is most effective

More precisely - an autoformer. Other than (unavailable in the US) Sola, I would like to hear more about good autoformers. For this particular task Hughes will work, but a good autoformer it is not.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi Westom,

I don't deny that lightning strikes are survivable.

So what can an RV'er do that will offer 99% protection from a direct strike on the campgrounds electrical system?

Unplugging works. What else is affordable and workable in an RV?
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

SoundGuy
Explorer
Explorer
Being the devil's advocate here I'd suggest that so-called surges and damage to an RV from same are hugely over exaggerated. In reality, if there's anything to be concerned about it's excessively low voltage when the campground's power system is being heavily stressed by all those A/Cs running and big rigs wired with 50 amp service that are running everything under the sun. That's where a good EMS is most effective and will protect the rig's electrics from untoward demise. Gotta say - if lighting hits anywhere nearby the trailer's electrical system is the last thing I'm going to be worrying about. A hard wire EMS inside my rig therefore is IMO the most sensible choice for what I'm most concerned about.
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380

westom
Explorer
Explorer
Bobbo wrote:
Of course, nothing will protect from lightning.


Every telco CO has been doing that for over 100 years. Telco COs are connected everywhere in town. It suffers about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace that surge damaged switching computer? Never. Because direct lightning strikes without damage have been routine when humans learn what Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Electronics atop the Empire State Building suffered about 23 direct strikes annually without damage. How is that possible when urban myths, wild speculation, hearsay, and emotions know otherwise?

Anyone can read numbers. Most, instead, entertain their emotions. And declare that a fact.

A direct lightning strike is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector (that costs about $1 per protected appliance) is rated at least 50,000 amps. It must not fail for many decades after many direct lightning strikes. Well proven science routinely found and demonstrated in every town. And still a majority only hear lies that promote emotions. Then assume nothing can protect from direct lightning strikes.

Cell phone towers are routinely struck - and keep working. Unfortunately that contradicts emotions.

Another example from people who make conclusions AFTER learning facts:
Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ...

Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ...

The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path.

Lightning damage is directly traceable to human mistakes - such as listening to fables rather than science and numbers.

A simple and fundamental fact even demonstrated by Ben Franklin. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. It has not changed in over 250 years.

Damage from lightning is a less threat in campground. But protector that can protect from that anomaly must be connected low impedance (as short as possible) to earth ground. That means connected at the pole.

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
And I should add that my main concern 14 years ago was a open 50A neutral which can destroy RV equipment.

That same year a open neutral at night on a 30A pedestal that resulted in 160V was shut down by my PI HW50C. Not possible you're thinking? Yup the open neutral was in the CG 120/240V distribution system and I could not get the rig unplugged fast enough. Sure not to common but it happened to me.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Explorer III
I wasn't overly concerned about theft but installed a hardwired EMS because:

1. It's always connected, nothing extra to plug in or store.

2. It protects the cord and connectors up to it's input.

3. The remote is mounted where it's very visible and so easy to monitor amps and volts or any faults.

The cost was $0 considering it's 14 years old and in the second rig. Recommend the PI hardwired units.
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland

Bob

Bobbo
Explorer II
Explorer II
westom wrote:
Bobbo wrote:
What anomaly will a unit on the pole protect you from that a hard wired unit will not?

Transients that do damage by seeking earth ground such as and not limited to lightning.

If you say so. Of course, nothing will protect from lightning. Personally, I would rather risk "(t)ransients that do damage by seeking earth ground" than losing the EMS to theft. Nothing is totally risk free. You have to choose the risk you are more comfortable with.
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab w/Max Tow Package 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Airstream Flying Cloud 23FB

westom
Explorer
Explorer
Bobbo wrote:
What anomaly will a unit on the pole protect you from that a hard wired unit will not?

Transients that do damage by seeking earth ground such as and not limited to lightning.

SoundGuy
Explorer
Explorer
SoundGuy wrote:
... regardless of whether it's a portable or hard wire version the best place to wire in an EMS is where the main service cable feeds the trailer's converter input buss bar. That's usually quite easy to do - inside the trailer just locate where the main service cable enters the trailer, cut the cable, and wire in the EMS


Almot wrote:
Uh-huh... Under the fridge, in a 12" tall, 26" long rabbit hole off the floor. Behind the converter. Sure, easy ;)...

But... - yes, this is the best place.


That's exactly where my converter is. In my case a few feet of 10 gauge cable feeding the converter input ran over to a junction box where the main service cable entered the trailer so that's where I wired in my EMS. Alternately, if I had insisted on wiring it in right at the converter I'd have simply removed four screws and pulled it forward out of it's nest in order to access the back side - no biggie at all. :B
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380