The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[professor95]

5akman wrote:
Has anyone found this unit in CA yet? I have a Honda that my boys use at one farmers market and I need another 2000w unit for the market I sell at. I'd love to try the Champ but haven't seen it here in CA. I've looked at Costco, Sams Club and the home improvement stores with no luck.

I am "told" that demand currently outpaces supply due to a hard-to-get FET used by all inverter manufacturers in their power module. As supply increases, look for Northern Tool, Cabellas and Camping World to have the 2000i available. But, don't expect to find them for the current price of $499. If you want a 2000i and can find one now, best to latch on to it. Like a gallon of diesel fuel - it ain't going to get any cheaper!

[5akman]

Has anyone found this unit in CA yet? I have a Honda that my boys use at one farmers market and I need another 2000w unit for the market I sell at. I'd love to try the Champ but haven't seen it here in CA. I've looked at Costco, Sams Club and the home improvement stores with no luck.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

A few comments about comparison with the eu2000i. If the Prof's resistive load test is representative of the "Typical" CPE 2000, I say it cleanly beats the eu2000i in this regard. I don't recall ever seeing a report of an eu2000i achieving a 1,900 watt output. Mine peaked out at somewhere around 1,800 (don't have the exact data with me now)at 550' elevation. As the load is increased, the eu2000i voltage stays above 124 through it's continuous rating of 1,600 VA. Somewhere beyond that, the voltage starts to droop to create a maximum power output (after a certain point, as the load is increased, the voltage goes down as the current goes up, along with a reduction of output power). A circuit breaker trip is rare on the eu2000i, with the electronics going into overload mode first in the majority of cases. With the eu1000i not having a breaker at all, I suspect the only reason the eu2000i has a breaker is to limit the current to the outlet when operating paralleled units. Observing the eu2000i on a scope shows it to be very good at handling loads with a poor power factor. It's immensely superior to an Onan Microquiet in this respect. I don't have any hard data but I suspect that it will handle more than 2000 VA, being limited mainly by the load in watts. Maybe the Champion is also good in this respect. Somebody will have to check it out.

[greenrvgreen]

Circuit breaker, circuit breaker--I hope the folks at CPE are getting the message.

If I recall in your previous test, this breaker is on something like a 5-second delay. Is it possible for the end user to swap this breaker out for the same size with a greater T-factor?

[professor95]

greenrvgreen wrote:
If I understand, this implies a maximum continous run (under ideal circumstances) of ~1900 watts. How does this compare to the equivilent Honda? Additionally, doesn't the Honda have a performance difference (better, worse) when accounting for Power Factor?

I realize the inductive load will be the tougher, "real world" test, including startup surges. Can't wait, P-95!

I do not own a Honda. But, I do own a Kipor KGE2000i which is pretty much a rubber stamp of the Honda performance wise.

I think I will repeat the test with the Kipor and let the thread look at those results as well.

The limiting factor on the Champion 2000i was the circuit breaker.

[professor95]

Bob, John and Floyd,

Yes, I am at 136 feet above sea level.

No, I did not measure sound levels nor engine RPM in this test. I really need a second man working with me to accomplish ALL of those test at the same time. I do want to make a video with sound later using the twin units with the A/C.

Floyd - Note that this was a resistive loading test. The genny was not connected to an inductive load.

A sinusoidally alternating voltage applied to a purely resistive load results in an alternating current that is fully in phase with the voltage. In many applications it is however common for there to be a reactive component to the system, that is, the system possesses capacitance, inductance, or both. These electrical properties cause the current to change phase with respect to the voltage: capacitance tending the current to lead the voltage in phase, and inductance to lag it.

For sinusoid currents and voltages at the same frequency, reactive power in vars is the product of the RMS voltage and current, or the apparent power, multiplied by the sine of the phase angle between the voltage and the current.

Only effective power, the actual power delivered to or consumed by the load, is expressed in watts. Imaginary power is properly expressed in volt-amperes reactive.

Our RV's WILL introduce the reactive component to the load. Thus, performance in relation to the readings given here will vary. But, this is true for any generator.

[greenrvgreen]

If I understand, this implies a maximum continous run (under ideal circumstances) of ~1900 watts. How does this compare to the equivilent Honda? Additionally, doesn't the Honda have a performance difference (better, worse) when accounting for Power Factor?

I realize the inductive load will be the tougher, "real world" test, including startup surges. Can't wait, P-95!

[tvman44]

Very interesting Professor. Did you measure the sound level with this test?

[johnjces]

Professor.. Thanks so much. Great info. One question, you are at about sea level or just above, correct? If so, these gensets are rated pretty accurately I would think.

Thanks again!

John

[PrivatePilot]

Thanks Professor, interesting test. The Champ continues to impress me...

[McZippie]

Professor, I just love the way you 'goof' with this stuff.
...Complements from a fellow goof.

[Old___Slow]

Well, my hats off to the little 80cc Champ. It appears from the testing a 80cc engine Inverter (Champion) can beat the socks off the Gold Standard Honda 98cc engine Inverter. I didn't think they could do this (Champion) though more powerful Inverters.

[professor95]

We actually had a decent winter day! The outside temperature got up to 51 degrees F. It felt like we were having a heat wave. :C

I pulled one of the CPE 2000i units out onto the driveway to document some load testing.

The photo below is my resistive load testing rig. The electric heater pulls 1445 watts at 118 volts showing on the Kill-A-Watt meter. The Kill-A Watt is plugged into the parallel outlet and the heater into the Kill-A-Watt. The Kill-A-Watt does not measure the added load from the light bulb string. I previously discovered it had an internal 15 amp fuse, so not wanting to blow it again, I have a loop coming out of the outlet box I can snap an inductive amp meter (amp-clamp) over to measure combined current loads while using the Kill-A-Watt to monitor voltage.







The lamp strip contains seven incandescent light bulbs rated at 100 watts each. Note that the bulb rating, meter rating and perhaps even the circuit breaker on the 2000i do not agree exactly.

The first test was to find out when the load gets high enough to cause the engine to begin to speed up. This occurred with four of the 100 watt bulbs on (no electric heater). Voltage was 121.5 and the Amp-Clamp showed 3 amps (365 watts measured, 400 watts rated).



The next test was to turn the electric heater on high without any bulbs added. The Kill-A-Volt showed 1445 watts @ 118 volts. The Amp-Clamp was reading 13 amps (12.45 computed).



I started adding light bulbs one at a time to the load. With two added 100 watt bulbs (1,640 rated watts) the Amp-Clamp moved to 14 amps (1,652 measured watts). The engine was running flat out, but it was holding the load.



I turned on another 100 watt bulb (three total added) – everything still held, so I added one more for a total of four bulbs. The Amp-Clamp was at full scale (15+ amps) and the computed load was 1,845 watts. I let the 2000i run another 5 minutes to see if it would hold. The little Champ hung in there at 1,800+ watts @ 118 volts.



One more bulb for a total of five 100 watt bulbs plus the electric heater. The load was now 1,945 watts. It only held for about 15 seconds and the 2000i circuit breaker tripped.



There is one important thing to understand about this test. The load was resistive, not inductive. Additionally, the load was stepped – not applied all at once which would create a higher current surge that would have most likely tripped the inverter module software enabled current overload.

Not bad for a little 80 cc engine. :B

[professor95]

Jay,

I'm sorry I did not recognize your name. I remember the espresso truck thing now. Thanks for the info on the cable. My guess is Champion did not even know of the problem with the cable in cold weather when they bought the materials. Interesting.........

Anyway, thanks!

[orionpaxx]

hey prof,

i use these gens for an espresso truck. being winter we're only doing a farmers market once a week.
i noticed before i loaded them on the truck yesterday that the shielding (rubber jacket) on one of the multi-pin connectors had split open completely, totally compromising the cable. i noticed that the multi-pin cable looses all flexibility in cold temps, it seems to me like a poor choice of materials. or use of materials that were not fully tested in the elements, hopefully it's an issue champion will address. i'd post a pic but i haven't figured that out yet.
anyway, i sent an email and explained the problem to champion and received a response in a few min explaining that that would send a replacement asap.

truly great customer service.