The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[professor95]

DrBaker wrote:
Professor, did you mean 4000 and 3200 in your above post?

Yes. Math side of the brain was not fully engaged when I typed in those numbers. :S

OR

I could use the same excuse I often presented to my students when I made a boo boo during lectures; "Good, the mistake was intentional just to see if you were paying attention. You get an extra A for a homework grade"

Thank you!

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:

rens27 wrote:


How do I check for a bond between the neutral and the ground?

With the ginny not running and no load connected use a ohm meter to check for continunity between the ground pin and the neutral pin of the receptacle on the ginny. Should be near infinity.

That is the correct way for the generator. But, my thoughts were more on the RV itself.

On a 30 amp plug (not outlet) there should be NO continuity between the center grounding pin and the blade on your left looking at the plug so that the grounding pin is on the top. Any continuity indicates a potential bond between neutral and ground which should NOT exist when the RV is unplugged from a power source. A bond here would induce an UNSAFE condition in the RV.

A bond "may" exist at the generator outlet. I personally do NOT want a bonded outlet (way too many reasons to list here now) and would remove the bond inside the generator or insert an in-line GFCI with NO thru connection to the grounding lug.

[DrBaker]

Professor, did you mean 4000 and 3200 in your above post?

[professor95]

vandoc wrote:
If you were in my shoes, would you jump for the Champions, since they would give me more power in reserve considering my elevation here in NM? Thanks for any feedback.

Based on all of the CPE2000i testing that has been performed by thread contributors (myself included) you need to keep in mind that you ARE NOT going to have 4,000 watts available from the CPE twins. While some will give a lesser number, I advise an expectation of 3,200 watts (2 x 1,600 watts)maximum sustained loading. This is based on the 13.3 amp circuit breakers on most models (which is now discontinued on USA red and silver units). I believe even at your higher elevation you can count on this power level.

Now, as Wayne pointed out, you need to discover what the actual output of the Yamaha 2400 is at 6,000+ feet elevation - not the advertised output, but the real-time continuous duty output. But, based on the latest input from Rob it sounds like a single Yammy 2400 is lacking the oomph to get the job done.

As we have learned, manufacturer's wattage numbers can be misleading and not match real-time situations, especially where we have high current start-up demands like an A/C induces or converter/chargers with low power factor numbers.

Edit made to correct stupid math error :S

[toprudder]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:
IMO there should be nothing about the starting current or voltage that should trip the GFCI. I think something is flaky somewhere in the generators, air conditioner, GFCI, or the wiring.

I agree. The GFCI works by monitoring the common mode current on the neutral and hot. Ideally, it should only react to the powerline frequency currents, but most don't filter out other frequencies very well, and it could be that some sort of higher frequency noise could cause it to trip. I suspect it might be the inverter output being noisy during the period of inrush current to the AC, but the only way to tell would be to put an o'scope on it.

The first thing I would try is to replace the GFCI outlet with another brand. You might find one brand is less susceptible than another.

Not to get too far off topic, but has anyone seen any arc-fault breakers in campers yet?

[lt1fj40]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

If you were in my shoes, would you jump for the Champions, since it they would give me more power in reserve considering my elevation here in NM? Thanks for any feedback.

I consider this s tough question and would have to look to Yamaha owners for feedback. The CPE 2000i uses a minimal displacement engine, the bare minimum to meet its electrical power specs. The Yamaha 2400 on the other hand is "over-engined", having a larger displacement engine than needed for its ratings. It's the same displacement, 171 cc, that Yamaha uses in the 3000 watt inverter generator, making the ef2400is displacement greater than both of the Champions put together. So maybe, big emphasis on the maybe, the Yamaha won't be degraded by the altitude as much as the Champions. IMO the only way to know for sure is to test both setups at the actual altitude.

Congrats on reading the entire thread. I vote for some kind of attention span award!

For what its worth, here in Edmonton Alberta (elevation 2192 feet at 79 Fahrenheit), the ef2400is was not able to start my ac, but twin 2000i were no problem. I do not have a hard start, that might make it easier? I didn't read the amp draw or anything, this was a real life test with my friends ef2400is and my twin 2000i.

Rob.

[tvman44]

rens27 wrote:

professor95 wrote:

rens27 wrote:
I'm running two of these units stacked. When my rooftop a/c starts up it trips the GFCI outlet in my galley. I put a volt meter on that outlet and it shows a drop to 96 volts when the a/c starts. My a/c requires 25 amps to start and I'm at 3100+ feet of elevation. I also turned off my battery charger and it did the same thing. Once it is running (14 amps while running) everything seems to be fine. Any advice on what I can do to avoid this? CPE suggested a hard start capacitor but I'm interested to see if there are any other options out there.

I am in agreement with Wayne. Since the A/C and galley outlet should not be sharing the same circuit - meaning there should be NO current load on the GFCI from the A/C, I would do the following as a first step:

Check for a bond between the neutral and ground with the RV unplugged from any power source. There should NOT be any bond between the two. If there is, find the problem and correct it.

If the no-bonding checks out as being correct, then replace the GFCI outlet with a new 20 amp rated unit .

How do I check for a bond between the neutral and the ground?

With the ginny not running and no load connected use a ohm meter to check for continunity between the ground pin and the neutral pin of the receptacle on the ginny. Should be near infinity.

[-_dwh_-]

You might also want to make sure that the a/c isn't connected to the load side of the GFCI.

[rens27]

professor95 wrote:

rens27 wrote:
I'm running two of these units stacked. When my rooftop a/c starts up it trips the GFCI outlet in my galley. I put a volt meter on that outlet and it shows a drop to 96 volts when the a/c starts. My a/c requires 25 amps to start and I'm at 3100+ feet of elevation. I also turned off my battery charger and it did the same thing. Once it is running (14 amps while running) everything seems to be fine. Any advice on what I can do to avoid this? CPE suggested a hard start capacitor but I'm interested to see if there are any other options out there.

I am in agreement with Wayne. Since the A/C and galley outlet should not be sharing the same circuit - meaning there should be NO current load on the GFCI from the A/C, I would do the following as a first step:

Check for a bond between the neutral and ground with the RV unplugged from any power source. There should NOT be any bond between the two. If there is, find the problem and correct it.

If the no-bonding checks out as being correct, then replace the GFCI outlet with a new 20 amp rated unit .

How do I check for a bond between the neutral and the ground?

[Wayne_Dohnal]

If you were in my shoes, would you jump for the Champions, since it they would give me more power in reserve considering my elevation here in NM? Thanks for any feedback.

I consider this s tough question and would have to look to Yamaha owners for feedback. The CPE 2000i uses a minimal displacement engine, the bare minimum to meet its electrical power specs. The Yamaha 2400 on the other hand is "over-engined", having a larger displacement engine than needed for its ratings. It's the same displacement, 171 cc, that Yamaha uses in the 3000 watt inverter generator, making the ef2400is displacement greater than both of the Champions put together. So maybe, big emphasis on the maybe, the Yamaha won't be degraded by the altitude as much as the Champions. IMO the only way to know for sure is to test both setups at the actual altitude.

Congrats on reading the entire thread. I vote for some kind of attention span award!

[vandoc]

I've read this entire thread... talk about a wealth of information. I have a question, and hopefully it won't be too off topic, and one of you can chime in. The main purpose of my purchasing 2 of these Champion generators is to run my 13,500 btu air conditioner. I've already purchased one Champion, buying the 2nd one tomorrow, and will be receiving the parallel connector from Costco this Friday. I've been toying with the idea of buying a Yamaha EF2400iSHC generator, which would run me about $100 more than the Champion stacked generators with cable. However, I'm concerned of the Yamaha running the AC at 6-7k feet elevation which is where I spend most my camping at. If you were in my shoes, would you jump for the Champions, since they would give me more power in reserve considering my elevation here in NM? Thanks for any feedback.

[professor95]

rens27 wrote:
I'm running two of these units stacked. When my rooftop a/c starts up it trips the GFCI outlet in my galley. I put a volt meter on that outlet and it shows a drop to 96 volts when the a/c starts. My a/c requires 25 amps to start and I'm at 3100+ feet of elevation. I also turned off my battery charger and it did the same thing. Once it is running (14 amps while running) everything seems to be fine. Any advice on what I can do to avoid this? CPE suggested a hard start capacitor but I'm interested to see if there are any other options out there.

I am in agreement with Wayne. Since the A/C and galley outlet should not be sharing the same circuit - meaning there should be NO current load on the GFCI from the A/C, I would do the following as a first step:

Check for a bond between the neutral and ground with the RV unplugged from any power source. There should NOT be any bond between the two. If there is, find the problem and correct it.

If the no-bonding checks out as being correct, then replace the GFCI outlet with a new 20 amp rated unit .

[Wayne_Dohnal]

IMO there should be nothing about the starting current or voltage that should trip the GFCI. I think something is flaky somewhere in the generators, air conditioner, GFCI, or the wiring.

[rens27]

I'm running two of these units stacked. When my rooftop a/c starts up it trips the GFCI outlet in my galley. I put a volt meter on that outlet and it shows a drop to 96 volts when the a/c starts. My a/c requires 25 amps to start and I'm at 3100+ feet of elevation. I also turned off my battery charger and it did the same thing. Once it is running (14 amps while running) everything seems to be fine. Any advice on what I can do to avoid this? CPE suggested a hard start capacitor but I'm interested to see if there are any other options out there.

[_40Fan]

Oletop wrote:

#40Fan wrote:
I guess it was pretty easy to wire up?

It is very simple to wire up. It just involves two wires. One is the ground, which I used the factory ground wire location. The other you just have to make at least 4 wraps around the spark plug wire. If you are looking at the unit from the access panel for the oil and spark plug, my hour meter is mounted to the left side. I explained how I wallowed out the hole and ran my wire. Really very simple, but quite nice looking when complete.

I also posted that the hour meter stores max RPM. I mispoke in saying this. That was an option on another hour meter I was looking at.

Thank you!