The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[Ric_Flair]

professor95 wrote:
.... it would be neat to know how some of the rest of the folks here came to be motor-heads (or whatever you want to call yourself :h).

I had a 1976 Triumph Spitfire that required me to tinker out of necessity or I was taking the shoe leather express to work and school.

I've always appreciated performance, and what I learned out of necessity I began to apply to make engines run stronger. Since then I've always had some project going in the garage.

Currently its a 68 Ford 428 Cobra Jet engine that I just rebuilt. Now I need to find someting to stab it in.

Also, I'm a tool and gagit guy. I'll buy anything that will make a task easier, even if I'm only going to use it once. As a result, I have quite a collection.

[professor95]

2bnb driver wrote:
Ive been curious as to how much quieter these things are with the plastic bodies than without. i think the honda would still be rather quiet because its built more like a GC motor than a gx(timing built, nylon cam and all). Champion/yamaha is more of a conventional type engine. Still they are small engines with rather unique exhaust systems.

I still have a Kawasaki GA1400A that I purchased "around" 1985 (27 years ago? - Wow).

It is still a great little genny and surprisingly quiet for a NON inverter.

I attribute this to the side panels, the method that air is drawn into the engine fan and some cool air bypassed to the alternator. Heated air exiting from cooling the engine is routed over the muffler and out the back in a manner similar to my Kipor and Champion inverter gennys.





The GA design engine may indeed have less internal mechanical noise than the GX. I have a Honda 5HP 160cc GA that was on my Trac-Vac but the thing wore out in two leaf clean-up seasons. The GX200 Chinese clone I put on to replace it has never faltered. I prefer the cast iron sleeve and metal cam gears even if they do make more clatter.

There have been a few (very few) commercial versions of the "open frame" Chinese genny with sound abatement panels installed from the manufacturer. As far as I can tell, they did not sell too well since most buyers were not interested in paying the additional cost for a few dbA noise reduction (about 2-3 dbA lower).



As an experiment, I made my own panels for one several years back using James Hardie concrete backer board. (Waterproof, fireproof, cut with saw or scoring knife). It was heavy as all get-out but did make a difference. 🙂

No way I can heft a 3500 open frame around any more. If I lift one it has to be with a winch, crane or front loader on my tractor. That is one big plus for twin inverters at 50# or less each.

[JConatser]

Good story, dwh

[professor95]

-=dwh=- wrote:
SNIP

Those guys turned me into a gearhead (and a machinist).

Cool story.

[-_dwh_-]

professor95 wrote:
Not to change the focus of the thread, but it would be neat to know how some of the rest of the folks here came to be motor-heads (or whatever you want to call yourself :h).

When I was 12, I wanted some money. Checked into the paper route thing - $1/day to get up at 4am and bust my butt, 7 days a week? AND I have to do the collections after school as well?

No deal, I'll pass.

Talked to all sorts of business owners in the neighborhood, but they weren't gonna put a 12 y.o. to work.

There was however, "The Bikers". One of the houses in the neighborhood was owned by a member of the most famous outlaw motorcycle club you can think of. He had a 3 car garage in the back, and it was a fully equipped machine shop.

But those guys were SCARY. Finally, I psyched myself up, walked down that loooong driveway and stood at the threshold of the shop.

And they ignored me.

After a half hour or so of standing in the sun sweating, one guy walks over and says, "WHAT?".

Told him I needed a job, and he and the other guys never even asked my age - they just told me (in various terms) I was too weak and wimpy to be a machinist and I should go home to my mommy.

Which naturally made me angry. They liked that.

Finally, after leaving me to sweat some more and going to the back of the shop to talk it over, they said they'd give me a tryout. They set 5 milk crates of these metal rings (exhaust donuts) out in the sun, put a chair next to them, and an empty crate on the other side of the chair.

I had to take a 3-sided machinist's knife, and de-burr the rings, both sides, inner and outer. If I could do 3 crates by the end of the day - AND DO THEM RIGHT! - then they'd think it over.

Basically flayed the skin off my fingers, and blistered what was left (those rings were HOT from sitting in the sun), but I did all 5 crates and DID IT RIGHT!

Spent two summers working there, as well as afternoons when school was in session (they said if they found out I skipped school then I was fired - no excuses). They paid me a man's wages as well.

Those guys turned me into a gearhead (and a machinist).

[2bnb_driver]

Thank you for the videos professor, very informative.

I understand your appreciation of the 3500 watt champ for that load requirement. However, you dont have to unload your 3500 or be that concerned with noise considering the "Binford 5000" gencave in your fiver.;)

[2bnb_driver]

Ive been curious as to how much quieter these things are with the plastic bodies than without. i think the honda would still be rather quiet because its built more like a GC motor than a gx(timing built, nylon cam and all). Champion/yamaha is more of a conventional type engine. Still they are small engines with rather unique exhaust systems.

[tvman44]

I sure remember the old Clinton engines. When I was about 12 or 13 years old a friend and I took a small engine class that was given at a community center at night taught by a small engine mechanic. The class was free and after that we tore into lawn mowers, scooters, motorcycles, cars and I got into drag racing and won state and regional championships with a car I built myself. The went to votech school after high school and started a career in electronic servicing form home consumer electronics, broadcast engineering, 2 way radio then my own television sales and service business. Recently retired I still love to tinker and just finished setting up by bench at home again so I can experiment, next I will clean off my bench outside in the storerooms for tinkering with engines. Old tinkerers never die they just tinker with something else.

[Old___Slow]

Seems the focus is changing. Or maybe not? The NEW Champions are not what 'old heads' found to be reliably simple. Most any simple wrench and some old wire could get you going. To stop, shut her down. ~ Now, these new fangled inverter gensets have come along. Trying to run on corn oil that I'm pretty sure the old Ford would have done better trying to put put. They also ran pretty good on 'drip gas' right out of the oil patch. 100 persent Prue stuff. Well if truth were known, the new Champ would do ok with that straight 'drip gas'. I read on another thread, this ethanol is destroying some rubber washers, etc, in our engines. Now, is this progress? Are these new Champion small engines, progress? Got to work them over while in the parking lot. And the electronics, what a fright. Some smoke, right out of the box while trying to charge the batts. Others freeze up with 150 hours use. Sync, using two, well that is another question? Just give me a break, just send me back to the 'Clinton' erea. Ford maybe?

Prof, you still got that old one in de barn? May be time to get her out?

[professor95]

.... not sure if this is the smartest thing for me to share or not - but here goes.

I have earned my living since 1968 by using my EE degree in some capacity related to education.

I am not a mechanic - or at least a certified or professionally trained one. But, according to my late Father, I was born with a wrench in one hand and a piston rod in the other. I have an ongoing love affair with anything that runs off of gasoline, diesel, alcohol or nitro.

When I was 13 (1959) I entered my Junior High School Science Fair with "Anatomy of a Gasoline Engine". I placed second. My Dad said he was later told I did not get first because some of the judges did not believe I did it all myself.

There have been go carts, motor scooters, motorcycles, boat motors, tractors, cars, Ham Radio, etc. in some form ever since. I've always loved messin' with engines and electricity - and 65 years later still do.

Not to change the focus of the thread, but it would be neat to know how some of the rest of the folks here came to be motor-heads (or whatever you want to call yourself :h).


1959 Science Fair Photo
Only the old timers will remember CLINTON engines :W

[Old___Slow]

So let me understand. And this is good news to me. For RV use there is no reason to replace my old C46540 with two new (twin) Champion 2000i's ~ $270 for the old Champion and still cranking, and Amazon $1200 for the new Champion 2000i's. ~ A+ for the old Champion. I only wish 'oldfordman' was still posting. I miss him.

[professor95]

2bnb driver wrote:
Professor95,


A couple questions if you will. Maybe they have already been answered, if so sorry to have you repeat yourself. Have you tested these in a parallel configuration? If the RPM's increase slightly at around 400 watts on a single unit, would that mean that RPM's would increase slightly at 700-800 watts when in a parallel configuration?

There is one utube video out there that has been the deal killer for me unless you tell me differently. Something seemed to be out of sync and showed the inability to effectively handle a surge when paralleled together, Has this been your experience?

Mark

Mark,

I do have the parallel kit and have done quite a bit of testing.

When two units are parallel the RPM will not increase at the same point as a single unit. I have not measured RPM vs. Load on single vs. parallel but seat-of-the-pants and ear monitoring give favorable results.

There are two previously posted videos on You-Tube that "might" be of help to you. In these videos I have the units in parallel connected to my fiver with the 15,000 BTU A/C on in addition to all other nominal loads (converter/fridge/?). The main objective of these videos was to discover if I could start the A/C on twins and then drop one off after the compressor had started. Well, I can.... sorta. The A/C will run from one 2000i once the compressor is locked in but you cannot turn the other off as the loss of sync causes the one left connected to the load to go into overload. Sort of a disappointment, but I do understand why.

I know that is not the question you asked, but maybe the videos will show you some of the other stuff you seek.

Personally..... I still prefer the 46538 (or similar) synchronous 3,500 watt unit for the level of power required to run an A/C. At that load the noise is not appreciably different. Having a "pure" sine wave for the A/C is not needed either.

Video 1

Video 2

[2bnb_driver]

Professor95,
Thank you for a gentlemans response to a post i could have worded more politely. One thing i need to remember is past experience with other small engines, in my case thumper motors on ATVs and dual purpose bikes. Seems like the first thing that needs to be done is to drill out the little brass plug and set the idle screw correctly due to an overly lean condition. With the millions of tips, tricks and how to's for just about anything engine related, it doesnt seem unreasonable to expect some of the same here either.

A couple questions if you will. Maybe they have already been answered, if so sorry to have you repeat yourself. Have you tested these in a parallel configuration? If the RPM's increase slightly at around 400 watts on a single unit, would that mean that RPM's would increase slightly at 700-800 watts when in a parallel configuration?

There is one utube video out there that has been the deal killer for me unless you tell me differently. Something seemed to be out of sync and showed the inability to effectively handle a surge when paralleled together, Has this been your experience?

Mark

[-_dwh_-]

While it's true that the inverter gens aren't much quieter than a synchronous gen while under a heavy load (NOR are they any more fuel efficient than a synchronous in that situation either)...

...One thing that should be kept in mind, is that a battery charger doesn't run at full load the whole time.

Let's use a 25a Iota for example...

The Iota with IQ/4 will do a bulk stage (constant current) for up to 4 hours, then drop to absorb. After dropping to absorb, the amperage flowing to the battery - and thus the load on the generator - then tapers off over time.

Without the IQ/4 module, it's just a two-stage charger and will bulk the battery up to 14.4v and then drop to float.

So even if a 25a charger maxed out a 1000i *at first* - it'll only be for a couple hours and then as the charge current tapers off, the inverter's RPM will start dropping, and the noise will start reducing (and the fuel consumption will get better).

At which point, the inverter gen is now doing what it's supposed to - running quiet and saving fuel.

For running nothing but a battery charger, the inverter gen is likely going to spend more time down at low RPM than it will up at high RPM.


The charger I have in my camper is just an old 10a Shauer constant voltage charger. Running it off the Honeywell, the gen never got above idle and would run 14 hours on 1.5g of fuel. Running if off the little 1200w Champ sync, the gen still runs 12 hours on 1.2g of fuel.

I plan to replace it some day with a 15a Samlex configured in two-stage mode, and I doubt very much that a 1000i is going to spend much time at all at full RPM - if it ever does.


(And I don't watch TV so that's a non-issue for me. (According to the U.S. Department of Education official statistics, 50% of adults in the U.S. read at an 8th grade level or below (a.k.a., fools). Guess what group most television programming and advertising is targeted at? Ugh. I'll pass. Haven't owned a boob tube for decades and don't miss it at all.)

What I take in the (Class B) camper (van) is a netbook computer (with 12v adapter), a small DVD player (12v adapter), an electric toothbrush (2 AA batteries with a 12v charger for the batteries), a Braun electric shaver (also 2 AA batteries) and a couple of Ryobi 18v battery tools for which I have the charger that plugs into the cigar lighter socket (I use the flashlight all the time).

The only other loads are lights and water pump. EDIT: And a couple of 12v fans. EDIT 2: And a 12v charger for the phone.

Everything runs off the aux battery, so all I need a generator for is to charge that battery. I wouldn't even need it for that, but I'm the sort who will stay in a place I like for a week at a time without ever starting the truck, and with a single 100ah aux battery, that's long enough to need to charge it.)

[Hybridhunter]

JoeRnCT wrote:
Video of the CPE vs. Honda 2000. This guy has other videos of the CPE generators stacked and he does some load tests.

That pretty much sums up what needs to be fixed on the CPE. I did not notice the engine struggling at all under load, just a lack of available current coming from the inverter. My dad continues to enjoy his 2000i, but his converter has a really under sized, long wire run to his coach battery, so it only overloads occasionally.