The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[curt12914]

Northern Tool has been around for a while and I buy things from them, but, since I don't have a local store, I find their shipping ridiculously high.

Cabelas has the 3500 non-inverter generator for $300 (with free shipping) right now, compared to Northern's $500 for the same generator.

The $700 price tag for a Champion inverter is also pretty high, when you can have a Honda shipped to your home for somewhere in the $800 - $900 range. I, personally, would pay the extra for a proven product with a nationwide parts and service network. The Honda can easily be adapted to use an auxiliary fuel tank. So far, no one has been able to come up with an easy, inexpensive way to do that with a Champion.

I am very happy with my Hondas. The only reason I would consider the Champion's is to save a significant amount of money. I guess I would rather spend a little more for a proven product, rather than be a guinea pig on a new mousetrap. Parts and service, down the road, scare me a little with the Champion.

IMHO, in order to be successful, the Champion inverters are going to need to be priced under $500. If I was going to pay more than that, I would rather pay for the proven product. The success of the 3500 was because of their low price. Most people were willing to take a chance, since they were cheap. If they had problems, they were willing to throw them out rather than repair them.

[professor95]

A new model of the Champion 2000i is now being offered by Norther Tool and Equipment - one of the largest generator suppliers in the USA.

It is the Model# 73537i – It is silver & black rather than silver and yellow. It is sold under the Category 5 by Champion Power Equipment, 1700W/2000W.

This model includes 12V DC output and comes with battery charging cables and start-up oil - which the 2 previous models did not (USA and Canadian).

The on-line catalog enty is here.

You will find the parallel kit listed on the same page.

Northern is also carrying the remote start 3,500 watt synchronous model.

I was disappointed at the Northern price, but that is controlled by Northern, not CPE.

There is at least one other supplier scheduled to come on line by the end of December.

I do not know if any of the software related to the time a surge current can exist has been changed or not.

[professor95]

Actually, Sal converted his Yamaha inverter to propane back "when" we were doing all the conversion stuff on the 3000 Watt Chinese Generator thread.

Initially, he encountered some problems with the engine speed changes but discovered that two vacuum fuel blocks - one in front of the carb and one behind, took care of the speed transition.

I see no problem in doing the same to a CPE 2,000i. I have no need to right now, but using Sal's knowledge I am sure I (or you) could easily make the conversion.

The gold star belongs to Sal (Salvo). 🙂

[Snowman9000]

So who is going to be the first to convert one of these to propane?
🙂
🙂

[professor95]

On air compressors, you "usually" find a check valve between the tank and compressor that will not allow air to back flow. There is an unloader in the air line from the compressor to the tank that is designed to purge pressure from the line so the compressor can start without a load.

Problem is the unloader in some of these small compressors does not do a very good job - or the check valve leaks.

If you have a copper, aluminum or steel tube that runs from the compressor to the tank you may be able to install an in-line bleeder valve or "T" with a manual open-close valve so you can open it to relieve pressure, start the compressor, and then close it to refill the tank. This is one way to overcome high head pressure that will not allow the electric motor to start without bleeding all of the stored pressure from your tank(s).

[jdiffend]

Here is the air compressor. They were under $100 for Black Friday. Link

I tried starting the compressor with the drain valve open so it wouldn't fight pressure but that didn't work either. I'll try it again once the compressor is broken in since it would turn over a few times before stopping.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

Wow, there are a lot of inverter generators crawling out of the woodwork these days. I wonder how long it will be before they are the common technology, and non-inverters are the oddball? I also wonder just how many different designs there are, vs. how many brands there are? The brainless ad copy really boils my blood: "Generac's iX Series inverter technology takes the raw power produced by the generator and passes it through a special electronic microprocessor to provide clean and stable power". 2,000 watt microprocessor, yeah right. And I wonder what those non-electronic microprocessors look like? So far, Champion's factor as copy hasn't offended me at all. Maybe the engineers get to write or review it.

On the air compressor, I've got a twin piston 1 HP Craftsman. At 500' the eu2000i will start it and run to the 100 psi cutoff. But when it tries to restart at 80 psi, the eu2000i grunts and goes offline. I don't remember exactly how far down the tank has to be for a successful restart. I vaguely think it's in the 40 psi ballpark.

[jdiffend]

FWIW, I tried powering a Craftsman 1HP 3 gallon tank air compressor with the Generac. It was close but I think the surge time is too short to get it up to speed. At least it wouldn't at 4000+ feet.

[jdiffend]

professor95 wrote:

curt12914 wrote:


Professor, Have you tried the 2000 watt Honda and Yamaha generators? How do their inverters compare for output?

Bottom line - all of the 2,000 advertised watt inverters (Honda, Kipor, Yamaha and Champion) reliably operated up to 1,500 watts of continuous load. NONE were capable of operating at a continuous load of 2,000 watts.

The Honda and Kipor provided more surge current. The Yamaha and CPE would NOT start a 6,000 BTU window air conditioner used as a test device. The Honda and Kipor would start the device. The Yamaha and CPE would NOT start a 12 amp circular saw. The Kipor and Honda would.

The Honda and Kipor are 100cc engines. The Champion and Yamaha have 80cc engines.

This is in no way a statement that implies the Champion and Yamaha are inferior to the Kipor and Honda. But, if your needs are for higher surge or starting currents, the larger displacement engine models do appear to have an advantage.

Have you tried a Generac iX 2000?
It has a 127cc engine.

BTW, from the Generac manual:

NOTE:
Power output and runtime are influenced by many factors, some of which are fuel quality, ambient temperature and engine condition. Output decreases approximately 3.5% for each 1,000 feet above sea level and 1% for every 10 degrees above 60 degrees F

So if you know what the temp and altitude was for your tests you could probably estimate sea level output.

[curt12914]

professor95 wrote:

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

The 2000 watt Honda and 2000 watt Kipor are darn near identical in performance. (Honda owners will hate that statement).

Why should we hate it? I've always viewed the Kipor as a pretty faithful clone of the Honda. I considered the tradeoff to be price vs. predicted reliability, with an equal performance level.

Ahaa, come on Wayne - you know what I mean. It is obvious from your past commentary that You know how to accurately evaluate a product and make a selection based on best available information.

But, like it or not, we do have some red owners that believe nothing can come close to their particular brand of generators - period. My best comparison is the waring factions between die hard Dodge, Chevy and Ford truck owners or the owners completely immersed in Airstream products(BTW - IMHO, an nice trailer - but not for me).

Paradigms really are changing and once was will not always be.
:W

Even though I own twin EU2000i's (Honda) most of you that watch my posts know that i have said many times that I probably would have bought one of the Champion (non-inverters) 3500 like one of my buddies has. (Incidentally, I was in Cabelas website this morning and they are on sale for $299 with free shipping.) I probably would have bought tte Champion and saved about $1500.

My only reservations with the Champion's is that they really haven't been out long enoug to have a reliability track record. Many owners are very happy with them, but I prefer to wait and see how they work when they are 5 years old like my Honda's. (I recently came across the receipt for them and can't believe they are 5 years old already!)The other reservation I have is the fact that Champion hasn't been around very long and I am a little uneasy about young companies, especially in our current economy. Many people thought their RV manufacturers would survive, but we now know that some didn't.

Hopefully, the Champion will continue to be a good product. I would defintely buy a Champion before I would buy a Kipor, Boily, Honeywell, Lifan or most of the rest. I am very interested to see Generac's inverter. At least they are an established company that has been around for a while...

[professor95]

PrivatePilot wrote:
Although I know it's the wrong time of year in many areas...has anyone confirmed if the Champion will start a roof air equipped with a hard start capacitor?

I'm sure that it's a lost cause without a hard start cap, but I'm very curious to find out if people equipped with such were able to get the AC to fire off. Once running this little champ should have no issues with *keeping* it running...it's the start surge that's going to be the issue clearly.

Mark, I did try it on my rotary compressor soft start Dometic 15K. No, it will not even begin to start the A/C. But, neither would the other other 3. I know some Honda owners claim to be running soft start 13.5K A/C's on their Honda 2,000 hooked directly to the unit (no parasitic loss) and even though I have not actually seen this, I do believe some "might" actually be making it work. But, you can be sure the procedure is like trying to pull a 15,000 pound fifth wheel trailer with a Chevy 1500.

Let me just come right out and say this: You are NOT going to start a 13.5K BTU RV air conditioner - soft start, easy start or whatever, with a Champion 2000i programmed with the same software for managing surge loads as the ones I currently have. Of course, they were never intended or advertised to do that amount of work either.

[professor95]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

The 2000 watt Honda and 2000 watt Kipor are darn near identical in performance. (Honda owners will hate that statement).

Why should we hate it? I've always viewed the Kipor as a pretty faithful clone of the Honda. I considered the tradeoff to be price vs. predicted reliability, with an equal performance level.

Ahaa, come on Wayne - you know what I mean. It is obvious from your past commentary that You know how to accurately evaluate a product and make a selection based on best available information.

But, like it or not, we do have some red owners that believe nothing can come close to their particular brand of generators - period. My best comparison is the waring factions between die hard Dodge, Chevy and Ford truck owners or the owners completely immersed in Airstream products(BTW - IMHO, an nice trailer - but not for me).

Paradigms really are changing and once was will not always be.
:W

[PrivatePilot]

Although I know it's the wrong time of year in many areas...has anyone confirmed if the Champion will start a roof air equipped with a hard start capacitor?

I'm sure that it's a lost cause without a hard start cap, but I'm very curious to find out if people equipped with such were able to get the AC to fire off. Once running this little champ should have no issues with *keeping* it running...it's the start surge that's going to be the issue clearly.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

The 2000 watt Honda and 2000 watt Kipor are darn near identical in performance. (Honda owners will hate that statement).

Why should we hate it? I've always viewed the Kipor as a pretty faithful clone of the Honda. I considered the tradeoff to be price vs. predicted reliability, with an equal performance level.

when attached to a resistive load that is gradually increased, both begin to fade at about the same point - 1725 watts.

When I ran this test my eu2000i didn't begin to fade until 1,800 watts (as defined by voltage over 120), but when being that precise it's probably necessary to take atmospheric conditions into account.

Bottom line - all of the 2,000 advertised watt inverters (Honda, Kipor, Yamaha and Champion) reliably operated up to 1,500 watts of continuous load. NONE were capable of operating at a continuous load of 2,000 watts.

My eu2000i has never seen 2,000 watts for any amount of time, peaking at around 1,900, but does operate reliably at 1,800. I wonder how one has to rig a test to pull the advertised peak power?

[professor95]

curt12914 wrote:


Professor, Have you tried the 2000 watt Honda and Yamaha generators? How do their inverters compare for output?

The Yamaha 2000 I was loaned for study and evaluation by a local equipment rental store was essentially identical to the CPE in power and performance. But, it did not fault as quickly with a current surge. I can't give you specific times on the fault delay of the Yamaha as I had no accurate way of measuring other than observation.

The 2000 watt Honda and 2000 watt Kipor are darn near identical in performance. (Honda owners will hate that statement). Both the Honda and Kipor have a significantly greater (observable) surge current capability compared to the Champion. But, when attached to a resistive load that is gradually increased, both begin to fade at about the same point - 1725 watts. My resistive load consisted of an electric heater drawing 1325 measured watts and a parallel arrangement of incandescent light bulbs of 100, 100, 100, 60 and 40 watts that could be switched in independently.

Bottom line - all of the 2,000 advertised watt inverters (Honda, Kipor, Yamaha and Champion) reliably operated up to 1,500 watts of continuous load. NONE were capable of operating at a continuous load of 2,000 watts.

The Honda and Kipor provided more surge current. The Yamaha and CPE would NOT start a 6,000 BTU window air conditioner used as a test device. The Honda and Kipor would start the device. The Yamaha and CPE would NOT start a 12 amp circular saw. The Kipor and Honda would.

The Honda and Kipor are 100cc engines. The Champion and Yamaha have 80cc engines.

This is in no way a statement that implies the Champion and Yamaha are inferior to the Kipor and Honda. But, if your needs are for higher surge or starting currents, the larger displacement engine models do appear to have an advantage.

BTW - the two Champion 2,000i units in parallel started and ran anything I plugged in with no problems. 15K BTU A/C, microwave, hair dryer, saws, grinders, sanders, etc.

One thing I did not get to try and most likely will not until it gets warm again is starting the 15K roof A/C with two CPE units, locking in the compressor and shutting down one of the two units to see if I could keep the A/C running. I think it will work, but have not had an opportunity to try it yet.