TOOLS I Have A Question

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Germany is more expensive than the United States. Wages, taxes, basic standard of living. Right?

Then please tell me why WILLI HAHN can manufacture screwdrivers and pliers far superior in quality to Snap On or Mac tools that cost WAY MORE then tools that are shipped thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean and marketed here?

There is no USA competition for these tools -- Knipex is considerably more expensive than WiHa. I have no idea where Knipex is made.

There is no other word I can substitute for the following one: The USA is prostituting our sense of integrity of quality for the almighty dollar.

There are a few holdouts. Caterpillar, 3M, General Electric (for medical) and Westinghouse (For large generators and transformers).

Siemens is kicking our *** world wide for electrical assembles and again this is a German enterprise. B*A*R*T*? A Siemens project. The San Diego Red Trolley? Again Siemens.

Too much of what I read on this forum are problems the result of which are due to shoddy design and manufacturing. Too many products have USA brand names and garbage Chinese design.

Why am I fuming? I lost a forty dollar frying pan this morning. An elite brand. The handle came off the hard way with absolutely no way to repair it. Elite USA brand name -- manufactured in China. We canno make a @#$%^&! forty dollar frying pan. Gimmee a break.

[Big_Katuna]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Big Katuna wrote:
For what it’s worth, it’s a house of cards. All of the above info about moving information around about people who sell stuff made somewhere else to people who use it, throw it away and buy something else or on the way to a Drs appt.

We are one big service economy looking for a decent screwdriver.

And when China decides to quit loaning us money, you are going to wish you had a good screwdriver.

Here is one.

Clicky

The US national debt is approximately $21 trillion dollars. Approximately 2/3rds of that amount is owed to US citizens and US government accounts. Of the $6.3 trillion owed to foreigners, China owns $1.1 Billion. That is about 5 percent of our national debt, while significant, it isn't a percentage that allows the tail to wag the dog.
Like any debtor/creditor arrangement, it is in the best interest of the creditor for the debtor to remain financially healthy, that is how they get repaid. By comparison, the US represents about 20 percent of China's export market. They have as much or more to lose than the US should something happen that breaks all ties between the two countries. I wouldn't be too concerned that China will suddenly stop purchasing US debt and redeem all of their US treasury bond holdings.

China owns a little over a trillion, not a billion. And the govmint is likely to borrow another T this next year to float our rapidly growing debt. Gotta pay oof those soybean farmers.

[JimK-NY]

I bought my frying pan lids at thrift store. They cost very little and last forever.

[westernrvparkow]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
The economic scenario was based on this...

ONE: The onset of a speculator infestation with energy

TWO The spiking of OIL PRICES with energy, transportation, and manufacturing costs leading the contributing negatives.

West Texas Intermediate crude prices dropped over 10 percent in October, it's steepest monthly decline in over two years. Perhaps the end of the US and capitalism as we know it has been similarly delayed for at least a month.
As for "Stagflation" being the greatest threat to an economy, I believe that you will find that anyone who has lived through hyper-inflation such as occurred in Germany, Yugoslavia, Hungary and China where prices doubled in a matter of hours and days would beg to differ. Today in Venezuela run away inflation combined with failed government price controls, subsidies and corruption has turned a country that has one of the world's largest oil reserves into a country where daily staples such as toilet paper have become so scarce that they are used as a substitute for currency. I am sure that the average Venezuelan would gladly trade their economic situation for the absolute worst of the US' brief period of Stagflation.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The economic scenario was based on this...

ONE: The onset of a speculator infestation with energy

TWO The spiking of OIL PRICES with energy, transportation, and manufacturing costs leading the contributing negatives.

My MEE and MBA are from Stanford, U, one gained in 1972 (EE) the 2nd in 1973

STAGFLATION is the enemy. I witnessed first hand an economy in decline because out of control "Whip Inflation Now" could not gain an anchor point in which to stabilize inflation. The cost of borrowing went nuts with double digit inflation.

BUT WAIT!

Ronald Reagan ordered the US Treasury to overhaul the consumer index of determining inflation. Suddenly the index fell seven points. He then pressured OPEC to produce more oil "Or suffer the consequences".

Both measures provided anchor points. Really tangible anchors. STAGFLATION ended

Japan underwent the same painful process in the 1990's and it has taken decades to fully emerge.

I can guarantee WALL STREET IN 1928 was a hotbed of optimism. For entirely different reasons the foundation of the economy was knocked askew and the DEPRESSION was as hard to defeat as the later STAGFLATION.

Economics is a fascinating area that is little understood by people who do not know how to unravel the mysteries. A core index shaker like energy prices or the
Fed suddenly becoming unwilling to support inflation by underwriting it with low interest rates (one cannot utilize long or even mid-term lending rates when debits are satisfied with less valued currency). So interest rates rise, consumer confidence shrinks, prices inflate, consumers retreat, and the malady rears it's ugly head.

The comment displaying current "economic events" was legion in 1929. A virtual war took place regarding buying on margin. The conservative faction was ridiculed. Sound principles of when to buy and when to sell were ignored.

Some of you are in for a shock unless energy prices retreat. This event is in it's infancy. I am following San Francisco's housing price index with special interest.

I purchased that set for what I thought to be a good price. The next time try looking for glass lids for T-Fal, they are sold minus lids. Bit IMHO the appliances are of excellent quality.

CHINA. They have us right where we want them...
China is desperately devaluing the Yuan Renminby. Again this is a long story of how they can almost afford do this, but in fact a Chinese economic collapse may well trigger a war of the worst kind. China is not unity. The people from Guangdon hate the Manchurians, who hate the mid (Mandarin) provinces. When hundreds of millions are thrown out of work they are going to take it out on Beijing with violence. Say goodbye prayers to members of the Politburo and Central Committee. Their corpses will be carried out of their offices.

Let me speculate you. Collection of an (honest) 8% of your annual income. Now go out into the world and try to maintain your current level of purchase, investment or or savings power.

Banks used to perform the same function as speculators when it comes to stabilization of farm and key material index prices. But minus the Las Vegas grade potential rewards. Speculation demands punitive inflation for it to thrive. For 99% of consumers, speculators provide zero advantage.

A simple daily percentage based circuit breaker overlooking speculation would eliminate the Las Vegas grade mentality of energy speculation. But today's mentality would forbid it.

I made a majority of my investment in Mexico's BOLSA. When I learned in the 1980's that USA bus manufacturers were dumping, I purchased DINA B stock at 7/8 peso. I later sold when the stock peaked at 28. Far ahead of Mexico's then inflation index.

By simply waiting a couple of years, either energy prices must stop inflating due to insane crude oil speculation or or you are going to become eyewitnesses to an extremely unpleasant economic reaction. Remember THIS. When China's bond investments mature and the dollar then is worth 25% of initial value guess who loses?

[JimK-NY]

Sorry, cast iron is too heavy for camping. Also difficult to maintain and still will not match Teflon nonstick.

[pnichols]

JimK-NY wrote:
This whole series of rants started due to a mistake. $40 frying pans are obsolete. The most functional frying pans are Teflon coated. Unfortunately the Teflon only lasts about one year. So the best plan is to spend $25 for a set of three pans which you replace every year. I recommend Tfal from Walmart or other discount.

Huuuuuuh? 😉

The husband of the couple we RV with is the cook for them. He prefers cast iron with the pan bottom covered with the appropriate cooking oil.

He doesn't need to replace his pans - ever. That's K.I.S.S. - IMHO.

[JimK-NY]

This whole series of rants started due to a mistake. $40 frying pans are obsolete. The most functional frying pans are Teflon coated. Unfortunately the Teflon only lasts about one year. So the best plan is to spend $25 for a set of three pans which you replace every year. I recommend Tfal from Walmart or other discount.

[westernrvparkow]

Big Katuna wrote:
For what it’s worth, it’s a house of cards. All of the above info about moving information around about people who sell stuff made somewhere else to people who use it, throw it away and buy something else or on the way to a Drs appt.

We are one big service economy looking for a decent screwdriver.

And when China decides to quit loaning us money, you are going to wish you had a good screwdriver.

Here is one.

Clicky

The US national debt is approximately $21 trillion dollars. Approximately 2/3rds of that amount is owed to US citizens and US government accounts. Of the $6.3 trillion owed to foreigners, China owns $1.1 Billion. That is about 5 percent of our national debt, while significant, it isn't a percentage that allows the tail to wag the dog.
Like any debtor/creditor arrangement, it is in the best interest of the creditor for the debtor to remain financially healthy, that is how they get repaid. By comparison, the US represents about 20 percent of China's export market. They have as much or more to lose than the US should something happen that breaks all ties between the two countries. I wouldn't be too concerned that China will suddenly stop purchasing US debt and redeem all of their US treasury bond holdings.

[pnichols]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Klein Tools are alive and thriving.

The parents purchased a Sears color TV fifty six years ago. We had a channel master antenna rotator with amplifier.

PORTA WALLS fake white sidewalls were the rage for kid's cars. So were Appleton (fake) spotlights, and Lakes Pipes, side exhaust. JC Whitney became huge in young lives. Ford flathead V8 engines had a water pump on each side the the engine. Turn on the radio and listen for the Vibrator before the radio became alive. Do you remember the tire sizes? 6:70-15 7:10-15 7:60-15 and 8:20-15. When the new Lincolns, demanded 9:50-14 tires, speedometers read high, fenderwells became scraped in an effort to use the "cool" new size.

RVs were a wonder. No more sleeping on rocky ground. No more waking up in a soaked sleeping bag. Tent? Oh jesus no. A center pole tent weighed 30 pounds and did nothing for the rocky earth under the canvas.

Sink? You bet! Grab that knob and start pumping. No more coleman stove generator problems. A jug of gas and a 3-burner stove was paradise. Sleeping across a rearranged dinette set wasn't. The ice box never worked well so it was packed with extra groceries.

And it was all affordable. NFS campgrounds were free. Yosemite cost $4.00. In 1954 cabins at Weber Lake CA cost .50 night. Dad tried to teach us boys how to fish where there were no fish. Had to learn on my own later. Mitchell 300 open face reels.

There was one thing VERY PRESENT back then that is utterly missing today. A sense of unlimited opportunity. A lot of this had to do with population density. I saw the census of the USA at fifty two million. Now California alone is not far from that figure.

Later on it was Vibra Sonic. Open the trunk, turn the radio way up and twang the resistor with a flick of the fingers, instant War of The World's II sound effects.

And don't be so dang cocky about medical. I joke with my doctors about "The 7-minute Appointment" Unfaxed prescriptions. Waiting with fifteen pregnant youngsters none of whom speak English. This is in the US.

Then and now is a giant trade off. Then there were no wobble-impact-sockets nor impact guns. You had better know how to sharpen drills.

Flashlights and batteries were truly sad. My dad imposed a near-death-penalty on us boys if we so much as touched his navy gray flashlight. The one with the 90 degree elbow at the end.

Going way back, a 2x4, one fruit crate, and roller skates provided endless fun.

But unlike today, electrical products were tested before they were boxed up. Want decent car stuff? Go to Sears, or Montgomery Ward for Power Kraft tools.

David .... IMHO, the above has to be your finest non-academic dissertation. Way to go!

Again IMHO, here's the signature words from what you said above: [COLOR=]"There was one thing VERY PRESENT back then that is utterly missing today. A sense of unlimited opportunity. A lot of this had to do with population density. I saw the census of the USA at fifty two million. Now California alone is not far from that figure."

Right ON ... the world has too many people in it ... and too much social media for all us people is contributing, too. Those are the engines driving a whole bunch of stuff downward everywhere - not considering another topic we're not allowed to talk about here.

[Big_Katuna]

For what it’s worth, it’s a house of cards. All of the above info about moving information around about people who sell stuff made somewhere else to people who use it, throw it away and buy something else or on the way to a Drs appt.

We are one big service economy looking for a decent screwdriver.

And when China decides to quit loaning us money, you are going to wish you had a good screwdriver.

Here is one.

Clicky

[Beentherefixedt]

MW: I think you got lost in the weeds here. For a guy who has two degrees, (you didnt mention what they were) you jumped to a lot of insupportable conclusions about our economy based on the performance of what I must say is a cheap piece of cookware. I can pretty much guarantee that if you had bought a Cuisanart, All Clad or any other professional brand which would have been unlikely to lose it's handle would your view of the economy be completely different? So here are the facts:

The US economy is 1/5th of the entire world economy and here is a list of our biggest industries. Please note the non Durable and Durable manufacturing numbers. I think you will see the sky is not falling. And this list supports my contentions in my original answer.

This list is longer and I only included the top few. They also break out industry by most profitable and largest. This list is by percent of GDP.

Here are the 10 biggest industries in the United States economy:

Information



$807.9 billion

GDP share: 4.6%

(An umbrella covering the broad fields of publishing, Internet publishing, broadcasting, media, sound recording, motion pictures, and many more.)

Manufacturing of nondurable goods

$954.8 billion

GDP share: 5.5%

Agriculture, textiles, apparel, petroleum and coal products and others make up the industry of manufactured nondurable goods.

Retail trade

$1,014 billion

GDP share: 5.8%

We buy A LOT of things on a daily basis, launching the retail industry onto the top 10 list, with motor vehicle sales and parts and food and beverage purchases leading the way.

Wholesale trade

$1,037.6 billion



GDP share: 6.0%

Before the things we buy get to stores, showrooms, and restaurants, they are wholesaled, which adds up to a more than $1 trillion industry every year.

Manufacturing of durable goods

$1,135.8 billion

GDP share: 6.5%

While the U.S. has seen a dip in homegrown manufacturing as companies move overseas, making all of the durable goods we use for building, infrastructure, machines, appliances, etc. is still a giant industry.
End of list

So in conclusion I think you view of the economy is innacurate and can one really base conclusions about 1/5th of the worlds economy on the performance of one cheap frying pan? My guess is that is not considered enough data.

[T18skyguy]

I remember the good old rabbit ears. I remember when color television came on the scene, and my mother brought home a new 19 inch color Sony portable TV. We thought we we're a big deal cause no else in the neighborhood had one. I remember scaring the hell out of my dad. We lived on a real steep hill. My dad was doing some under the hood work on our old International pickup. He only had the truck in gear, and no hand brake. So 8 year old me climbs behind the wheel and pushes in the clutch, and it starts down hill real quick. I never saw my dad run so fast. In an instant he jumps out from under the hood and pushes me aside and stops it. I didn't get a whipp'in for that, but I got plenty for other stuff.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Klein Tools are alive and thriving.

The parents purchased a Sears color TV fifty six years ago. We had a channel master antenna rotator with amplifier.

PORTA WALLS fake white sidewalls were the rage for kid's cars. So were Appleton (fake) spotlights, and Lakes Pipes, side exhaust. JC Whitney became huge in young lives. Ford flathead V8 engines had a water pump on each side the the engine. Turn on the radio and listen for the Vibrator before the radio became alive. Do you remember the tire sizes? 6:70-15 7:10-15 7:60-15 and 8:20-15. When the new Lincolns, demanded 9:50-14 tires, speedometers read high, fenderwells became scraped in an effort to use the "cool" new size.

RVs were a wonder. No more sleeping on rocky ground. No more waking up in a soaked sleeping bag. Tent? Oh jesus no. A center pole tent weighed 30 pounds and did nothing for the rocky earth under the canvas.

Sink? You bet! Grab that knob and start pumping. No more coleman stove generator problems. A jug of gas and a 3-burner stove was paradise. Sleeping across a rearranged dinette set wasn't. The ice box never worked well so it was packed with extra groceries.

And it was all affordable. NFS campgrounds were free. Yosemite cost $4.00. In 1954 cabins at Weber Lake CA cost .50 night. Dad tried to teach us boys how to fish where there were no fish. Had to learn on my own later. Mitchell 300 open face reels.

There was one thing VERY PRESENT back then that is utterly missing today. A sense of unlimited opportunity. A lot of this had to do with population density. I saw the census of the USA at fifty two million. Now California alone is not far from that figure.

Later on it was Vibra Sonic. Open the trunk, turn the radio way up and twang the resistor with a flick of the fingers, instant War of The World's II sound effects.

And don't be so dang cocky about medical. I joke with my doctors about "The 7-minute Appointment" Unfaxed prescriptions. Waiting with fifteen pregnant youngsters none of whom speak English. This is in the US.

Then and now is a giant trade off. Then there were no wobble-impact-sockets nor impact guns. You had better know how to sharpen drills.

Flashlights and batteries were truly sad. My dad imposed a near-death-penalty on us boys if we so much as touched his navy gray flashlight. The one with the 90 degree elbow at the end.

Going way back, a 2x4, one fruit crate, and roller skates provided endless fun.

But unlike today, electrical products were tested before they were boxed up. Want decent car stuff? Go to Sears, or Montgomery Ward for Power Kraft tools.

[westernrvparkow]

Big Katuna wrote:
In the telephony industry back when a new VW Westphalia was $4000, I used Klein tools. Wire cutters, flush cutters, sheath, screwdrivers, wiring scissors.

I stilll have some. Don’t know if the quality is still there.

Would it be safe to say that today's mini vans are of better quality than that VW? Also, would it be safe to say that the telephone equipment and networks are superior to the equipment and networks then? Today I can call anywhere in the US, talk for as long as I want and not pay any long distance charges, was that the case back then? When that VW was $4000, if you were expecting an important phone call, you couldn't leave your home or office. And what was your household income when you shopped for that VW? My guess way below the median US income today of $61,372.
The good ole days had 19 inch black and white TVs getting 3 network channels if you had a good set of rabbit ears. Two car families were a sign of wealth. Only the rich flew on airplanes. Automobiles of today are much more fuel efficient, safer and have fewer emissions than the vehicles of the VWs vintage.
Nostalgia aside, the fact of the matter is the standard of living as well as life expectancy has never been higher for the entire world and the US is near the top.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

http://www.bricklin.org/techcentral/tcarticlewhotools.htm