Trojan t-1275 vs Signature series J150 RE

[landyacht318]

Before winter, I need to get a dedicated flooded house battery, my Northstar AGM-27 has been working hard as both house and engine battery for the last 4 months, and I want to return it to engine starting duty/emergency capacity duty.

The battery I have been desiring and planning on, is the Trojan T-1275.

Recently, I became aware of the J150 signature series which is marketed as a renewable energy battery.

The case size is the same, but for handle differences which make the J150 3/4" wider. I can fit either, but no taller. No t105's, no J185s. Only the T-1275 or the J150, or Smaller. I am not going for any smaller flooded 31 or 27 size ever again. They are rated for only half the cycles as the t1275 or j150.

The J150 weighs 2 Lbs more than the T-1275, at 84Lbs
The J150RE also states it has an Absorption voltage range of 14.1v to 14.7v
The T-1275 says absorption voltage is to be 14.8v. No range, just 14.8.

What are we to infer by this Wide absorption voltage range on the RE line?

I was hoping it would mean the battery would be happier on my low and slow 198 watts of low and slow solar, compared to the golf cart's, 10 to 13% 'recommended' charge rate.

If this were true, would it then protest being fed a 30 to 50% rate from my alternator? My vehicle also will allow upto 14.9v and this is hammered in stone, just as no more solar is possible on my roof.

T-1275 Spec sheet

Signature Series J150 Renewable Energy

The Non RE J150 is also 84 Lbs, 2 lbs more than the T-1275, but also states 14.8v Absorption voltage.
Trojan J150

So, is the RE battery just a different sticker and a lower ABSV to appeal to the renewable energy market?

Kind of like how Condorde markets Lifeline AGM and SunExtender AGM lines while the specs and PDFs would indicate they are the same exact battery?

I know a call or Email to Trojan is in order, but I was hoping for Some MexWanderer pontification on these ponderables.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Means Trojan banned bongs and flourescent ties.

If I lived where Polar bears licked my windows clean I would consider a 1.300 battery. This is a great marker waypoint for me. Above 1.280 shun it. The idiots know the excessively corrosive factor of high density electrolyte and they chose to ignore it. They did this for one reason and one reason only - to cook the books on CCA reserve and amp hours. Christ! We stood on our heads making sure warm clime cyclables were fitted with Tropic Blend acid and scumbag battery peddlers are ignoring reality. Next comes parchment thin Green Earth plates that due to weight-reduction promises to save gasoline and earn carbon credits. And the Sheeple will eat it up and ask for seconds.

[pianotuna]

Given that increased S.G. leads directly to more positive plate erosion that would bias me away from the J150.

End of life for me was when charging amperage showed 63 amps and I could smell hydrogen sulfide gas. To be fair, I do have two banks, so catastrophic failure of one was not 'the end of the world'.

BFL13 wrote:
In the OP, the link to the J150 spec shows its 100% SG is 1.280

[NinerBikes]

The end of my battery life on my T-1275 was when I couldn't get through a regular 3 minute shower, not a Navy shower, without the water flow decreasing out of the shower head.

I made an arbitrary decision, then and there. Fired up the Honda Generator for every shower after that first water pressure reduction from drop in voltage on the bum cell. End of trip, and at that point, I was in the hunt and looking for replacement, when the Teleco battery posts started popping up here.

End of life for a battery is whatever the owner deems is the end of life, regardless of timing or inconvenience. My daily life doesn't depend, per say, on the health of my battery, others that full time without stick and brick, have different needs and parameters for when things fail.

I will say this: it is a tough battery, just a little fussy to get top charged regularly. Specific gravity per cell, on both of the ones I had, were also all over the place, yet the battery worked fine, for a long, long time. In the end I had a 40 to 50 point spread between the bad cell, and the 5 other good cells. 1.285 sometimes 1.290 on the good cells (non temperature corrected, this was in 100F temps), and 1.250 to 1.240 on the weak sister, when she stopped adequately serving my needs. YMMV, that's what I measured and saw.

They behave well enough if charged up to 14.8V daily, but mine, being tired, seemed to not have the SG sag as much if I got to 15.0V daily, later in their life. Whether I roasted the plated by doing this, or caused faster lead shedding, I do not know, the battery never saw more than 8.5 amps from the solar panel doing the top charging, about a C/18 or so charge rate, not hard on a battery of this size, at all.

[BFL13]

In the OP, the link to the J150 spec shows its 100% SG is 1.280

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I wonder if tire OEMs are going to start claiming 4000 lbs load capacity with L235 85 16" tires @ 145 PSI?

Flat out 1.300 is too hot unless antimony is reduced to near zero and calcium or ground up Budweiser bottles are used as an alternative. Cheetah is wearing the pants at battery OEMs now, eh?

"Ring Ring"
"Hello. Phartenhammer Batteries"
" Tell me - do your batteries have 1.300 acid?"
"Why yes indeed! Do you realize the advanta....."
"Click"

[landyacht318]

I though 80% of original capacity was considered the battery life endpoint, and anything below that was a battery waiting to short a cell.

I imagine once it falls to 80% that 50% is not far behind.

I agree that for most people, it works 'just fine' till the day it does not, and only then do they try and do something about it. I think it is often way too little and way too late, but their next set of batteries benefit from the effort, unless they consider the lifespan and the replacement to be minor inconveniences and go on to praise their pedestal queen batteries and habits.

[BFL13]

End of life at 50% rated AH is not based on reality. Most folks would say it is when they can't get through to the next scheduled recharge time.

Say you have two 6s at 232AH and use 70AH a day and you need them to stay above 50% so the inverter won't alarm off under load. So you need the capacity to be at least 140AH. That is 140/232 = 60%.

So somewhere before they get to 60%, you will want to replace them. Besides that, the usual story is that they will hold fairly well until they don't, when they decline rapidly.

So you have to watch for that, and replace them at 70% if you need 60% minimum, or get caught short while out camping with several days of camping still to go.

---Mex, I have a standard $6.00 glass bobber hydrometer that is good enough for my purposes. It is consistent for comparison work.

I don't know what the original SG was in these batteries. 1.300 was reported by an Interstate battery guy to be the new standard for their 6s ten years ago, but I have no idea if he had that right or just a rumour. Also I don't know if these were of the "northern standard" when we are in the "temperate zone". I would think where Mex is the SG would be to tropical zone for hot temps, but that depends on just where in any zone you live for what really happens there.

Anyway, I don't care if they die too soon. They were free to me and are doing great, so if they have all the battery diseases known to man, and will collapse anytime soon without warning-- too bad, so sad! 🙂 Actually, I get the feeling they will last a long time from how things are going so far.

[ktmrfs]

When I was looking to replace the T125's in our trailer I looked at the Trojan RE (renewable energy) batteries vs. the std T125 etc. After lots of digging and digesting data here is what I concluded.

1) When comparing a std to RE Trojan I found that the rated AH for the equivalent RE battery was slightly lower. For example the T125RE had an AH rating closer to the T105. I seem to recall also that the RE had a slightly lower SG as well. The L-16's were similar

My conclusion was that they traded off AH to increase cycle life.

In the end I figured that even though we dry camp a lot, I was hardly going to come close to the std cell rated cycle life in 5 years so that is what I ended up with.

And then I asked Trojan how they defined cyclelife. Here is their response

As far as end of life, the battery industry standard is that a battery has reached end of life when it fails to provide 50% of it's rated capacity.

now the big questions are:

1)ok, this defines end of life. but under what discharge rate and charge rate?
2) at what % of original capacity would you say your battery(s) are no longer adequate and at end of life.

For me, 50% would be past what I consider useable life. probably something closer to 70% maybe 60%.

[landyacht318]

Well My batteries are going to work hard, just like my Meanwell will have to when they are depleted. I could put them up on the princess pedestal and worship their feet, asking little to nothing in return, but instead I will treat them like well fed hard worked, and well cooled slaves to serve faithfully the overlord AMPmaster.

Princesses have no Idea how to work. They dream of shoes and shiny objects, and preferably shiney shoes, and demand respect from the mindless 'just fine' brigade.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Thanks westend. In my world there is no such thing as a too-cool semiconductor 🙂

Actually Landy it is the battery that demands to be treated correctly. We are nothing more than willing or unwilling servants to whim and quirk. Frown, and like a Hungarian Movie Actress, it slashes it's wrists. If they weren't so danged expensive and diabolically inclined to fail at the very most vulnerable moment I would care less.

[westend]

Mex wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice to find single-side finned heatsinks for the Megawatts that would run full length down the sides?

If these guys (Alexander Industries) don't have them, they aren't being made.

Caveat: I used to buy from M&M, which Alexander bought out. Their customer service may have changed. Their heatsinks were always of the best quality.

A cheaper place but don't know what they have for sizing: HeatsinkUSA

[landyacht318]

In the case of my Meanwell, there are three sets of transistors pulled tightly to the aluminum casing. 2 of these sets are in a depression in the side of the case, which required a lot of effort with a grinder and file to get them to fit tightly so that minimal thermal transfer epoxy was required to bridge the gap and hold them in place.

I only added the heatsinks over the areas right where the transistors meet the casing, and they certainly reduce the temperatures of the casing adjacent to them, significantly. I used Aluminum screen framing to raise the casing off my cabinet door about 3/8 inches, and to also act as strain relief for the 120vac input and DC output cables.

While without any additional fans or heatsinks the loud 40MM fan would cycle on and off at just 6 amps output, my 2 extra fans increased this to about the 24 amp level. With the heatsinks added this rose to ~34 amps, but ambient temperatures play a big factor.

Overall it is an impressive 40 amp charger and I have full confidence in its abilities.

Which is not to say I will not further increase heat dissipation abilities. It still gets hot when maxed out at 40 amps, but not nearly as hot as it did before increasing ventilation and heatsinking.

Thanks again for making us aware of these adjustable voltage power supplies ability to be used as manual chargers. I was not happy with the traditional converter/automatic charger offerings. I wanted more precise manual control that could better mate with the batteries I choose to employ. I've never been a plug and play type of guy.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

You are aware of all the parameters and thus consequences so you certainly do not need guidance unless you seek it.

Wouldn't it be nice to find single-side finned heatsinks for the Megawatts that would run full length down the sides? Holes could be cut for screw head access. High fin count, perhaps 3/8" height. Pipe dreams indeed. Let's go into rapture and declare the heat sinks to be black anodized. Make them 1/2" taller than the Mega's case so they act as mounting feet rails.

[landyacht318]

Mex, I do have fans to direct air at the Meanwell and its additional heatsinks, but could also directly attach 60M fans to 2 of the 3 additional heatsinks themselves, which Westend also sent me. My mini borg has not yet completed its transformation.

Westend, I have a battery box under the floor behind my drivers seat. I used to use 2 27's in parallel shoehorned under there as a house bank, but now it contains only the single group 27 Northstar which I have not even seen for 18 months now. I have an hatch to reach it/them from above, but have to climb inside a cabinet to get to them, and some cells required moving my fridge to look down inside. This location is limited to 10.25 inches of height maximum, as i am not modifying the welded steel battery box itself to accept taller or wider.

As a result of this cabinet hatch inconvenience, 2 sets of 27's got low on water and had their lives snuffed out prematurely. I later decided to go with less overall capacity with a single 31 so my solar could better approach the recommended 10% charging rate, and then BFL13 suggested I move the AGM battery in the PITA hatch and put the flooded 31 in my engine compartment to simplify watering and taking hydrometer readings.

It was an awesome Idea which allowed me to figure out exactly what the Screwy31 required by tweeking absorption voltage and float voltage durations. Something I would never have bothered with if the battery stayed underfloor inside a cabinet, under a hatch, and no way would it have achieved nearly 500 cycles.

And while I know having more capacity would mean shallower discharges and more cycle life, I am interested in working a battery hard with deeper discharges, because the results interest me. I am not seeking maximum cycles per dollar even though my finances are hardly healthy, I am seeking maximum possible cycles when whipped by an evil taskmaster. Discharged hard and charged just as hard, to 100%, as often as possible.

The screwy31 got this treatment, and was a great learning experience, and apparently not just for myself. The future T-1275 will be worked just as hard, but for the extra 20 AH overall capacity will mean slightly shallower discharges. I'll keep close track of its behavior in such usage for all to ponder, contemplate, and perhaps even besmirch, if they are so inclined to take offense at my interests in doing so and sharing.

When afterall, it is just a battery, and only rented.