Trojan t-1275 vs Signature series J150 RE

[landyacht318]

Before winter, I need to get a dedicated flooded house battery, my Northstar AGM-27 has been working hard as both house and engine battery for the last 4 months, and I want to return it to engine starting duty/emergency capacity duty.

The battery I have been desiring and planning on, is the Trojan T-1275.

Recently, I became aware of the J150 signature series which is marketed as a renewable energy battery.

The case size is the same, but for handle differences which make the J150 3/4" wider. I can fit either, but no taller. No t105's, no J185s. Only the T-1275 or the J150, or Smaller. I am not going for any smaller flooded 31 or 27 size ever again. They are rated for only half the cycles as the t1275 or j150.

The J150 weighs 2 Lbs more than the T-1275, at 84Lbs
The J150RE also states it has an Absorption voltage range of 14.1v to 14.7v
The T-1275 says absorption voltage is to be 14.8v. No range, just 14.8.

What are we to infer by this Wide absorption voltage range on the RE line?

I was hoping it would mean the battery would be happier on my low and slow 198 watts of low and slow solar, compared to the golf cart's, 10 to 13% 'recommended' charge rate.

If this were true, would it then protest being fed a 30 to 50% rate from my alternator? My vehicle also will allow upto 14.9v and this is hammered in stone, just as no more solar is possible on my roof.

T-1275 Spec sheet

Signature Series J150 Renewable Energy

The Non RE J150 is also 84 Lbs, 2 lbs more than the T-1275, but also states 14.8v Absorption voltage.
Trojan J150

So, is the RE battery just a different sticker and a lower ABSV to appeal to the renewable energy market?

Kind of like how Condorde markets Lifeline AGM and SunExtender AGM lines while the specs and PDFs would indicate they are the same exact battery?

I know a call or Email to Trojan is in order, but I was hoping for Some MexWanderer pontification on these ponderables.

[BFL13]

You have to get something or other. IMO a T-1275 is worth a try, based on how mine act and how you operate. Best thing is we get to read another 100 page thread on how it all works out! 🙂

[landyacht318]

I guess I was hoping too much to get someone at Trojan to discuss their different lines, and discrepancies in weight and absorption voltages. I was not asking for proprietary info, and stated so.

The return Email basically said the T1275 and the J150 are exactly the same internally. that 50 amps from my alternator was too much, that 10 to 13% was the maximum rate, not just the 'recommended' rate.
At the bottom of the email was a long paragraph stating how the information was not to be shared and should be completely deleted afterwards. They shared nothing which needed to be deleted. If they did I would certainly respect that, but all the respondent did was repeat what I've already read, many times before, on their online documentation, and I did find this insulting.

When you seek an expert to ask a specific question and get a response directed at a nitwit, it is insulting, or at least I find it so.

Perhaps we should just print out, chop up and snort their own PDF spec sheets as to weight and recommended absorption voltage, along with the RE marketing Kool-aid.

How much variance can two batteries coming off the same line have?

Or is this a VW style type of dishonesty/Trickery?

I want a flooded battery. A true deep cycle battery, not one which just proclaims so on the sticker. I like taking SG readings, experimenting, learning how it responds to changing variables such as absorption voltages, durations, depth of discharge, rate of initial recharge, ect.

My Northstar AGM has largely robbed me of this. All I know is that after 5 cycles with low and solar only recharging, even to 0.4 amps at 14.5 volts each recharge, that voltage under load that night walks down further and further, and only a high amp recharge returns the performance both in terms of voltage held under load, but how quickly it cranks my starter and how low voltage falls during cranking before engine catches

The T-1275 is likely the largest actual flooded deep cycle battery I can actually fit in my vehicle. Usually a company who responded to my queries in such a manner would be banned, but I have little choice as everything else likely has half the plate thickness and falls much closer to a starting battery than a true deep cycle battery.

I would have paid extra for the J150 over the t1275 if the 2 extra pounds the PDF claimed were confirmed.

I won't be calling the number that was emailed to me after I replied I was disappointed in their response to my query about the topic. If there were another brand option in that size format, I would take it.

Even if it is a meaningless protest by an informed consumer.

Heck, maybe I should just start getting wally world group 29s and beat the snot out of those with 50% discharges and high amp recharges and try to cycle them to death and return them within the warranty period.

But I am not in the something for nothing crowd. I'll pay for quality, I just want to know what I'm paying for, not have smoke blown up my Keester.

I have access to a Garden hose and access to cigarettes if that were my desire.

[BFL13]

I see the REs don't give an RC spec, just an AH spec. I see the RE does give a 2 hr rate, and the regulars give a 75 hr rate. All very peculiar IMO.

Anyway, either should be able to handle a 50% charge rate from the alternator until tapering starts, since they give both 75 and 2 hr rates in their specs.

IMO getting insulted too fast to soon is not sensible. Never mind whatever twinkie you happened to be communicating with, just go with the big picture.

I am leary of the RE business, since I don't understand it. They also have an RE version of the standard T-105.

[westend]

IMO, Trojan deep cycle series of batteries are some of the best FLA batteries out there. The durability makes them king. Having maintained a fleet of golf carts with a staff that was spawned by the devil, I would say you are going to get close to the max longevity out of one, especially with the babysitting care given.

I would only worry about plate erosion if using a constant 100 A charger (or similar) and poor observation. Your 12V Trojan will take whatever charge you give it with medium weight charging and will be happy to have current at a higher voltage than typical 12V FLA's. Keep an eye on electrolyte levels and please, don't fill it like Satan's minions, with a garden hose right in front of the club house entrance.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Well, I am Dealing with Trojan, not a fly by night battery company. I found their return E-mail insulting, given all the information i provided they should know they were not dealing with a battery neophyte, but the answer was as if they were.

Jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

Try dealing with the medical community. During my dizzy early college years I decided to try pharmacology. 2 Semesters. I retained the knowledge and during another learning feeding frenzy in the late 70's I earned an EMT 1, then an EMT 2 license. Times have changed but some successful CPR and Heimlich Maneuvers a well as some yelling to get people to go to the doctor (plus yelling at some real dumbsh** doctors) made it worth it.

I had to wade through some deep slush today trying to get a medical referral to a genuine doctor, an internal medicine specialist. That community reminds me of many other trade-crafts where mediocrity is the established norm. They the vast majority operate by ROTE instead of skill, do not have a shred of abstract analytical wisdom and expect auto obedience and compliance by their flock. I hadn't realized the steep slope of level of intelligence this country has slid down since the 90's. It is disheartening. Yet I really cannot return to either Stanford or Cambridge for rejuvenation. The world has changed. I have not. I am a regular disenfranchised caboose on the modern era narrow gauge railroad.

BUT! it does not prevent me from continuing to learn via the world wide web. Lots of pure rubbish out there but a few gems sparkle.

This has never been, is not now, and never will be a "just push this button" world. Well thinking it over, I must take that back. Junkies live in a "just push that button existence if you want to call it that.

If you believe electric powered automobiles will end complexities you are sadly mistaken. If you believe you are going to see rational thirteen thousand BTU air conditioner systems powered day and night by solar cells and batteries - you have another think coming.

People who avoid learning, think it isn't necessary are going to continue to be outfoxed by reality. The ultra-wealthy can afford to have a "I have people who do that for me" lifestyle. That is until they get screwed by incompetence then they spend the remainder of their life screaming and complaining they got robbed.

It takes so little time. My reticence in absorbing digital technology is unforgivable but I consider 99% of consumer digital usage to be an artificial reality. "Hey Look At My Bot Out There Windsurfing!" "My bot can drive better than your bot!" All on Tweety or Gleutus Maximus Book or other digital messenger.

LEARN! Even learning how to tie a fly correctly is better than reclining in front of the idiot box memorizing earned run averages.

Enough preaching. It is so very easy to tell reading forums who possesses wisdom and who are the drones...

[landyacht318]

Ok we have two batteries, same size same casing, one has different handle design and says it weighs two more pounds than the other.

We have come to equate all things being equal, the heavier battery is better.

Then we have trojan's technical respondent saying both batteries are exactly the same internally. No difference, and will not touch the RE question regarding a lower recommended absorption voltage, except perhaps if I call the number which was emailed back to me when I responded with displeasure at their intitial response.

Well their own spec sheets have a 2 Lb difference, heavier for the J150.

Are we just to disregard this? Perhaps we should all weigh our batteries rather than believe the spec sheets. If the spec sheets are wrong, then what if the effing point?

Marketing is really pissing me off, and not just regarding batteries.

So then we get Trojan's signature series, their signature J150 that has a Green RE on the end, and an absorption voltage recommendation well outside what we've come to expect from Trojan, much lower.

MOre meaningless marketing to appeal to the renewable energy crowd? It appears so. These batteries aint going into a golf cart, but into a storage shed to be fed by renewables, Quick order up a sticker to satisfy this Man, charge him double for it!!!!!!

Is that where things stand? Can there be no further improvement in plate paste, separators or any other aspect of Lead Acid deep cycle batteries?

Perhap I was hoping they came up with a battery that was perfectly happy , or perhaps less unhappy at being charged slower via solar and perhaps not to 100% every recharge cycle. Is it really too much to ponder this possibility?

But Old Mex says nothing has changed in 30 years, and throws in a few insults of his own toward anybody who might ponder whether it is possible things just might have since he had an insider's scoop and personally affronted the paisley and neon tie crowd as often as possible, if we believe his own rants.

I mean the lead acid battery makers have to be shaking at the thought of Lithium taking over. It is coming. Lead acid battery's days are numbered. Would they not be interested in trying to negate some of the negatives of Lead Acid and try to hold onto their market share, or is it such a lost cause they they just decide to give the marketing department more leeway to basically just lie. Cash in and check out and keep people snorting the Kool aid, one nostril at a time with their useless PDF sheets rolled up into a straw?

I was hoping for discussion, not just a crusty curmudgeon's exasperated harrumph.

Whatever battery I do end up with will have its specific gravity maxed out as often as possible, whether I can get inside its cells to read it or not.

I've got all the tools to do so, and no blind faith in blinking green lights, or marketing, or my Fellow human.

Plenty of rage though.

I appreciate those of you experimenting with the telecom batteries and sharing your experiences. I cannot go such a route. Mine is just a DIY class B. Space is limited. I will be going to great lengths to get a T-1275 battery to actually fit. It would be much easier and cheaper to just get another group31 knowing full well it is a quasi deep cycle battery, but that is a compromise I am not willing to make. Been there, done that, nothing more to learn there.

I want a flooded deep cycle battery. I have my Learner AGM battery already, and I like it. but i am not going to have a bank of greedy AGMS that are unhappy with a peasley 200 watts of solar day after day when discharged to 50%.
More capacity is not happening, more solar is not happening.

The Screwy31 was a dual purpose battery with a deep cycle label and a bunch of flowery marketing. But it also dealt with huge recharging currents. I will be asking a T-1275 to deal with those same huge recharging currents, upto a 50% rate, perhaps more, if it decides to accept it.

Will it protest more than the screwy31 did at those same high recharge rates?

It comes down to that.

[NinerBikes]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Landy,

I can't find the post about a limit of 23 amps. I did find a reference to 21 amps.

I surmise the telecom battery has thicker plates--and that is no bad thing for a deep cycle battery. The trade off is slower charging rates.

Your situation is a bit unusual as you wish to go with just one house battery.

I'm getting different charging rates from different charging sources. The strange part is that the batteries seem to recharge faster from the alternator than from the Magnum inverter/charger. Strange because the amps going in from the alternator are lower than what the Magnum says it is providing. Strange too, because the voltage coming from the alternator is lower than the Magnum. Perhaps the Magnum is lying? I have no easy way to check that.

/\ This... I have no idea why I observed this on my last 3200 mile trip starting in the end of August, into the middle of September. But my 170 amp alternator, and AGM battery in the VW NOXtoberfest diesel Touareg seems to charge much faster than the measly 20 amps max the Megawatt shows off the Honda EU2000i, or 1000i or my solar panels.

What I pretty much have been assured of is that, based on observations of Mr Wizard, for daily useage cycling, up to 4.5 to 5 years can be expected before replacement, and that for how I camp, and if I stay on top of recharging it instantly to topped off daily, Mex seems to think I might die before my battery does.

My T-1275 had ZERO problems sucking down 37 amps at start out of my 30 amp megawatt, initially, especially in cold weather. If it's discharged deep enough, 60% SOC, it will suck those kind of amps down for a fair amount of time, until it gets to a 80 to 85% SOC.

Does it hurt the battery to charge at that rate? Only if it starts getting hot during the charging process.

If you are pressed for time to recharge, then pay the premium and get the AGM speed charging variety, as the fuel and gas it saves, if your alternator can keep up, while driving anyways short distances, will pay for itself.

I believe in top charging , daily, every single day I get the opportunity, for the longevity of the batteries life.

IMHO, and observations... no doubt about it, driving and charging up batteries with an alternator or on the grid with the Mega 30 for extenede lengths of time, shakes up the recharging regime, for the betterment of the battery, from the same old hum drum routine of solar panel recharging.

[pianotuna]

Hi Landy,

I can't find the post about a limit of 23 amps. I did find a reference to 21 amps.

I surmise the telecom battery has thicker plates--and that is no bad thing for a deep cycle battery. The trade off is slower charging rates.

The other known difference is that the telecom jars are not a starved acid situation. That makes them a tiny bit more forgiving of not reaching 100% state of charge. Perhaps it affects charge rate too? I do know the specific gravity is 1.30 vs 1.275 for a Rolls-Surrette.

Your situation is a bit unusual as you wish to go with just one house battery. Most folks have 2 and with 4 I've seen 96 amps going in (briefly).

I'm getting different charging rates from different charging sources. The strange part is that the batteries seem to recharge faster from the alternator than from the Magnum inverter/charger. Strange because the amps going in from the alternator are lower than what the Magnum says it is providing. Strange too, because the voltage coming from the alternator is lower than the Magnum. Perhaps the Magnum is lying? I have no easy way to check that.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Scheemaneeze I'll try this one last time!

Engineer leadership is interested in one thing - their own personal integrity. Instead of wearing neon ties and arguing over whether the new alloy additive is to be called holycowifornium or shebangazowie they insist on stiff regulations for battery maintenance to make their product look as good as possible. They are after LIFESPAN. $ per kWh rendered and NOTHING else. Engineers are BLIND to generator charging. Everything is either "on grid" or tied to solar panel charging hypothetically absolutely perfect.

Thirty years ago the batteries were made exactly the same way and there existed ZERO regulations that are pounded out today. Sure they had charge limit recommendations but back then they had 3 - 7% range of antimony.

Paying an additional 300 dollars to add 20% lifespan to a two hundred dollar battery is not the wisest path to take. Paying three hundred dollars to get an additional twenty percent lifespan out of a ten thousand dollar battery bank is a horse of a different color.

Is this about flooded batteries? And you're having a quandary about how to manage them? Pardon me while I roll my eyes. You are already aware of how to manage flooded batteries CORRECTLY.

If a battery specification sheet is released and a platoon of heels are heard clicking together crying "ACHTUNG! DIFFERENT PARAMETERS! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS! NEW MARCHING ORDERS!" Then the time I have spent here is wasted; how sad. Don't give a **** if it is Trojan, Concorde or Rolls - a fundamental change in battery maintenance protocol means a fundamental change in battery construction. IT HASN'T HAPPENED! Time to go gardening.

[landyacht318]

Well, I am Dealing with Trojan, not a fly by night battery company. I found their return E-mail insulting, given all the information i provided they should know they were not dealing with a battery neophyte, but the answer was as if they were.

I let them know my displeasure.

The space I have for a battery is limited. The screwy31 was absolutely maxing out the space. I cut out that battery tray as it was in poor condition anyway. I originally thought just lowering it 1.5 inches would allow me to fit a T-1275, but I found that yesterday this was unlikely.

Moving something else will allow me to fit a t-1275 with a smidge of clearance.

I was aiming to have Solar be my main charging source. I know that Solar alone cannot keep my Northstar AGM happy at 50% depletions, and use the Meanwells 40 amps or my alternator to fill that high amp recharge void this AGM requires.

The Lifeline also has that 20% recommended rate, which my Solar cannot meet, but the Meanwell and alternator can meet that void.

I was really hoping a T-1275 would be the best compromise of both worlds. Really my reluctance is Trojan's that 45 to 75 amps is too much.

I don't want to have to throttle back my charging sources, but my Alternator and Meanwell greatly exceeded the Screwy 31's 10% recommended rate too, and I still got nearly 500 cycles from it.

So perhaps I am just overthinking it in my desire to attain ideal. The t-1275 is still likely the best compromise and should outperform the screwy31 easily, especially as i now have the Meanwell with Ammeter attached where the Screwy31's first 16 months it went without.

PT, Niners report of 23 amps maximum into his tellycom battery from his megawatt has me believe there are fundamental differences in design/intent with these tellycom AGM batteries. I need a battery to accept huge currents at relatively short durations from my alternator and to take all the 40 amp meanwell can deliver without getting petulant or instantly limiting amperage.

The lifeline gpl-31xt and my northstar AGM are impressive in how much amperage they can accept without battery voltage climbing instantly to absorption voltage. I do not want a battery which says Whoa Whoa Whoaaaaa Nellie, not so fast, and limits what my charging sources can deliver

[pianotuna]

Hi landyacht,

I have four--but next time the battery bank is hungry I'll check to see if two will accept more than 46 amps.

Documentation on mine makes no mention of a 23 amp limit. That really makes no sense to me as the only limitation should be internal resistance, which is always pretty much low in AGM.

As far as discharge rates go, I've pushed them to 160 amps in load support mode via the Magnum inverter.

Maybe PM Mr. Wizard to see if he knows--he has been using his for about 50 months.

The lifeline may be the better choice for you.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Jim in Denver has hit it point center. You would not believe internal wars that go on inside battery company board rooms. My preference leans -strongly- toward companies that have genuine engineers steering the boat. Rolls & Surrette, Trojan, Lifeline, Deka. I have tasted the insanity in sales oriented leadership and it gives me a stomach ache. When it doubt believe the engineer oriented companies.

There are companies out there who employ substandard engineers, play copycat except they spend 50% of the time cutting corners and expenses, and the remaining 50% stamping out fires from mismanaged production. It is sad. They pay salesmen as much salary and commission as they do engineer's salary.

Your hydrometer makes you BS proof with regards to properly charging a flooded battery. What you do not and can not know is how high the pallets of warranty batteries are stacked on the back loading dock.

Trojan industrial batteries are expensive. Yet the company is extremely competitive sales-number-wise and it is flourishing as compared to some others. Use wisdom. How can a more expensive product compete with a competitor. All of these companies have been around a long time. Long enough for things to have naurally sorted and sifted. Rolls is even more extremely price biased. Yet they cannot build enough batteries to satisfy demand. Why is that? Hypnosis? Billboards placed alongside interstate highways?

My products were always expensive. Priced alongside factory reman alternators. Yet production never slowed. It is entirely stupid to produce a "me-too" product and enter the price-war arena. Illegal alien laborers, wrong side of the tracks warehouses and scumbag makeshift delivery systems are impossible to fight. Producing a better than OEM reman, better than factory brand new alternator was easy for me. Then I managed to end up at UCLA med-center and The City of Hope. My health failed me. But memories of "I drove up here from Oceanside, because..." was my reward. Excellence has it's advantages. It was the only way I could carve a niche.

It's exactly the same with batteries. When a company puffs its chest out and says "We Lead!" pay attention. I never did get a reply back from Fullriver regarding the thickenss of their positive plates. That one glaring omission decided things for me.

Again, use wisdom and it will lead you true.

[landyacht318]

An email response from Trojan on the matter revealed nothing that could not be read in their online documentation.

Very disappointed. Insulting really.

According to the response, 82# = 84#, and they did not even attempt to address the 14.1v to 14.7v absorption voltage range of the RE signature series.

And 10 to 13% recommended rate was amended to maximum rate.

Loss of confidence in the product/company.........

Perhaps that 150AH Lifeline gpl-30XT would be better since it can obviously handle the large currents I will throw at it.

I'll not be seeking a used tellycom battery, and if a single one self limits to ~23 amps as Niner reports, then that would double the amount of driving I'd need to do to replenish the same amount on a depleted battery.

Much of my driving is of short distance. The battery needs to be able to gobble up 55 to 75 amps for 5 to 10 minutes.

The Screwy 31 handled it

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I'll never go back to flooded batteries for the 'house'. If used telecom batteries are available and not too tall they will accept charging from driving wonderfully well. The same seems to be true for charging at idle.

[NinerBikes]

What ever is easiest to install and get in and out of your rig, for replacement, or water adding, or hydrometer dipping, or... convenience... Or go for price, the T-1275's are probably less expensive, a lot of golf carts can use them.