Yet Another Generator Discussion!

[SpeakEasy]

I know how much you folks love generator discussions. Here's another one.

I have fallen from heaven. I have ordered a generator. During my nearly 20 years of RV'ing I have sworn at generator-users, I have sworn that I would never have one, and I have nearly gotten into fights with generator-users. Mostly because of the noise.

My defenses began to crumble when I heard about Honda 2000's and their quieter operation. My defenses crumbled even more when I bought a trailer that had an air conditioner. My defenses crumbled even more when I went to a Bluegrass festival in 90-plus heat and had to listen to everyone else's generators anyway. But then I learned that the Honda 2000 and other similar-sized generators wouldn't run my air conditioner. When I realized that I'd need a $2000 generator to do that, I pretty much abandoned the idea. Back to being a committed non-generator-user.

Reading the discussions here recently I learned about Micro-Air Soft Start . In exploring their website I learned how this device is installed and how it enables a 2000-watt generator to power the ac.

My defenses fell the rest of the way when I found that Micro-Air has also researched the small generator market and has come up with a recommended product: the Westinghouse iGen2500. Micro-Air guarantees compatibility with their SoftStart product, and they are selling these generators for $630 with free shipping. Amazing.

Forgive me.

-Speak

[Florida_Swamp_F]

For my new RV (vs Old Truck Camper) I have been trying to figure out my own generator issues and up till today overlooking the easy start product. I was focused on the normal running watts and noise. I understand locked rotor amps but after I watched the video on Gone with the Wynns website I completely changed my mind. I will be adding one of these, keeping my single Honda eu2000is and buying a new eu2200is when I can. In the mean time I expect to be able to run my AC at rest stops and at night when temps are below 95 degrees (on my single honda 2000). If we need AC for an extended time, I think two Hondas is the way to go and I should be able to get another sometime. I can keep it in my in-bed tool box. The main can ride on the hitch carrier.

I have a lot invested in my Honda companion, low pro lock down, custom hitch mount, extended run tank equals about $1600. I was going to sell all that and buy a Champion Dual Fuel 3400.

[burningman]

I’m a big fan of conservatively over-sizing generators.
Even when one of my pair of EU2000s will handle a load, I’ll usually run both because two running at barely off idle is a lot more pleasant than one throttled up and maxed out.

[SpeakEasy]

OP here. I guess I'll weigh in with an update and product review .... so far.

Micro Air continues to impress me. They shipped the order immediately after I completed the sale. This was late on a Friday. The generator and EasyStart arrived the following Tuesday.

I spent the morning Wednesday installing the EasyStart. The installation video on the Micro Air website was superb. Everything I needed to know I found in the video. I had more difficulty with the mechanical aspects of mounting the EasyStart than with the electrical connections. Electrical connections were easy and straightforward. The EasyStart was larger than I anticipated, and it was a little difficult to fit it in to the space available. I had to get a little creative, but in the end all is well.

Now, on to the generator. The generator came with just the right amount of oil, and good, clear (real English) instructions on how to get it up and running. It started, first pull, and ran well. It was a bit louder than I had anticipated, but I have a decibal app on my phone, and I found that it was pretty close to as-advertised.

The EasyStart requires five AC startups to "learn" the power requirements of the compressor. I did these five startups on shore power. (It's still winter up here in NY, so I had to run my electric space heater to warm the camper up enough to allow the thermostat to start the AC. Ha! I used the generator to power the electric space heater.) After the required 5 startups, I connected the trailer to the generator.

Would the generator start the AC? Would the noise level be acceptable?

It started the AC without a hiccup. The generator was set on its ECO mode, and it accelerated to accommodate for the increased power draw. But inside the trailer, the noise of the AC was louder for me than the noise of the generator outside. I expected that. Outside, the generator was running at a healthy pace, and it was a little louder than I wish it was. But it wasn't any louder than when I was using it to power the 1500 W space heater.

I tried several startups of the AC from the generator. Every time the generator handled the demand of the startup without issues.

All in all, I'm pleased with the overall performance of everything.

-Speak

[2oldman]

Since I have nothing better to do today I'll present my little tutorial on generators and a/c.

I've found, after 15 years of doing a lot of dry camping, that very few RVers bother to run a generator to run air. I'm at the Q right now, it's heading up to 80 degrees, which means it's over 80 in here, and I am the only camper in this very large LTVA area who is doing that. Maybe I'm just a wuss, but anything over 80 is quite uncomfortable to me. I've also been in much hotter weather where peeps don't run their air. Perhaps it's like propane, where folks would rather do just about anything to avoid buying propane. Gas is expensive, it's messy, it's heavy, and you have to have a handy, nearby station. So it seems running a generator to run your air must happen at only select locations, like Nascar. Or when it's really, really hot. I don't know.

For you folks who have a large battery bank and a large inverter on a whole-house installation, consider running your generator to charge the batteries while the batteries and the inverter run the air. Batteries/inverters are much better at handling surges than generators. Charging typically draws less power which means less noise. I recommend you be on a 24v or higher system due to the huge amp draw at 12v which can heat things up over time.

[2oldman]

ctilsie242 wrote:
I personally think the MicroAir product, or hard start kits in general are a must. Mainly because 60+ locked rotor amps is not going to happen with most RVs unless one is plugged into shore power. .

2 2k Hondas will do it, 3 will also do it very easily. They live up to their surge ratings.

We get a lot of complaints on here about low CG voltage which isn't very good for the a/c at all.

[SoundGuy]

ctilsie242 wrote:
I personally think the MicroAir product, or hard start kits in general are a must. Mainly because 60+ locked rotor amps is not going to happen with most RVs unless one is plugged into shore power. Moving the inrush current to a separate device not just allows for a 2000-3000 watt generator to be used, but also extends the life of the A/C compressor, since it will encounter undervoltages far less often, and too low a voltage does more damage than too high a voltage often.

Agree completely. I'd add an Easy Start to my own Dometic Brisk II in an instant even though I always run mine on shore power EXCEPT for the fact that we use the A/C so seldom, perhaps 2 or 3 times during the entire season, that's it's difficult to justify the expense. Otherwise, IMO a Micro-Air Easy Start is a no-brainer. 🙂

[ctilsie242]

I personally think the MicroAir product, or hard start kits in general are a must. Mainly because 60+ locked rotor amps is not going to happen with most RVs unless one is plugged into shore power. Moving the inrush current to a separate device not just allows for a 2000-3000 watt generator to be used, but also extends the life of the A/C compressor, since it will encounter undervoltages far less often, and too low a voltage does more damage than too high a voltage often.

The only other product that really allows moving the inrush current would be a good PSW inverter like a Victron or Magnum Energy model, but that is almost 6-7 times as much as the MicroAir appliance, and requires an electrician to have things routed safely.

I had a Yamaha 3000 iSE. It would barely start my 15k BTU A/C, regardless of the eco throttle setting (which I kept off). I would have to fire up the microwave, nuke some water for 30 seconds, then just as the microwave cut off, time the thermostat to start the compressor, so the generator could "catch" the A/C starting current before spinning down. Once this was done, it would run the A/C from there on out. If I fiddled with what type of gas and fuel additives, I wouldn't have to do that sometimes, but it was random if the generator would just decide to overload or keep running.

My current rattletrap, a 4000 watt Champion starts the 15k BTU A/C without question. However it isn't exactly quiet, and it takes up a good chunk of room in my pickup truck's bed.

[RSD559]

pnichols wrote:

RSD559 wrote:
My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 btu A/C until I put a hard start kit in it.

What??? There's something not right in this situation you mention. The hard start kit - as sound as it's engineering is - shouldn't have been required. :h

Maybe the air conditioner was too old/defective, or the EU3000iS needed some work, or you were trying to use the air conditioner at an extremely high altitude without rejetting the generator?

Both the trailer and the generator were fairly new. We're only about 500 above sea level. Several other folks on the forum experienced the same thing when I did. In fact one of them suggested the hard start kit on this forum. I'd never heard of one until then. It worked. Saved my bacon. There was fire in the wife's eyes! And not the good kind!

[pnichols]

RSD559 wrote:
My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 btu A/C until I put a hard start kit in it.

What??? There's something not right in this situation you mention. The hard start kit - as sound as it's engineering is - shouldn't have been required. :h

Maybe the air conditioner was too old/defective, or the EU3000iS needed some work, or you were trying to use the air conditioner at an extremely high altitude without rejetting the generator?

[RSD559]

I'm not holding out a lot of hope for a 2500 watt generator to fire up an un-kitted A/C. My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 btu A/C until I put a hard start kit in it. If you had the Easy Start, it should work. But I don't think it will work with just a hard start kit, or no kit. If it does, great ad for that little generator!

[SoundGuy]

SpeakEasy wrote:
Micro-Air guarantees compatibility with their SoftStart product,

trail-explorer wrote:
There are a lot of people that successfully run A/Cs on small generators and don't need that over-price gizmo soft start doo-hickey added to their A/C

"over-price gizmo soft start doo-hickey"? Seriously? Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? :S

[2oldman]

SpeakEasy wrote:
I am forming an opinion that Micro-Air may be an example of a company that is just the opposite. So far I am totally impressed with their customer service. I hope I will be impressed by the performance of their product.

I hope so too, and that it's not a sales ploy to sell only that generator. Startup current still has to get through the capacitor on the a/c itself.

It's my understanding the better generators have more surge capability.

[SpeakEasy]

trail-explorer wrote:

SpeakEasy wrote:
Micro-Air guarantees compatibility with their SoftStart product,

THey gaurantee compatibility of "what" with their soft start?

Look at the context. Compatibility between the EasyStart and the Westinghouse iGen2500 generator.

That information is on their website, but to give you even more context, I contacted them to ask them if the EasyStart would be enable me to use my 13,500-BTU A/C with the Champion 2000-watt inverter generator. They sent me an e-mail reply within minutes telling me that they had found out "the hard way" that the EasyStart would not help with that generator. They informed me that even though the Champion is called a 2000-watt generator, it only provides 1600 watts sustained. I then noticed that the Champion specs do indicate this, but I hadn't noticed it. They had experienced the Champion going into overload status when trying to run a similar A/C. Therefore, they did not recommend my use of EasyStart with this generator. I had not told them that I did not own a Champion. As far as they knew, I had the Champion and was considering getting their EasyStart device.

On these forums we hear a lot of complaints about inferior products and bad customer service across the whole range of RV stuff. I am forming an opinion that Micro-Air may be an example of a company that is just the opposite. So far I am totally impressed with their customer service. I hope I will be impressed by the performance of their product.

-Speak

[wa8yxm]

THE compatibility would be with the air conditioner upon which they are installed.

[bucky]

trail-explorer wrote:

DSteiner51 wrote:
Enjoy. My now 14 year old 2800 kw inverter genny

What do you use to tow the 2800kw generator?

Took me a second, good catch.