Carbon ceramic pads question

[scootsk]

Hey all

Just ordered Power Stop carbon fiber ceramic severe duty truck& tow pads for my 2014 Ram 3500 CC LB dually. Most of the driving in that truck is towing out 14k lb. FW. My question, is it okay to use carbon fiber Ceramic pads with the stock rotors?

[scootsk]

My goodness. I started this thread to find out if using carbon fiber ceramic pads are compatible with stock rotors. I never, in a million years, thought that it would cause the same stir as Ford v. Chevy v. Ram. Lol

[fj12ryder]

Yeah, you just can't trust all these liars. FWIW the head wrench turner at any dealer was probably flipping burgers at Micky D's yesterday.

Kind of boils down to "You're wrong" vs "All these other people are liars". Hmm, that's a tough one.

[StonedPanther]

fj12ryder wrote:

StonedPanther wrote:
Yes, the same with tires, in the Midwest or somewhere with flat land where the roads are mostly straight for miles you'll get more miles than in say north central Pennsylvania. But this is about brakes and has involved into some half assed pissing match about factory OEM brake pad life. I was calling someone out for claiming 145K on OEM pads, now there are claims of a quarter of a million miles, or more.
ROFLMAO.

Perhaps physics are different in the PNW than anywhere else in the country, or the manufacturers ship new vehicles there with some super secret squirrel brake package different than everywhere else?

We have 260K, do I hear 300K, 450K, LOL. You folks with those off the wall claims of 250K must also get twice the tire wear and double the fuel mileage too.

Or perhaps you're wrong? When most of the evidence points that way...

Perhaps I am wrong. That's only if I take Internet forum ramblings and claims, basically a lot of BS'ing, as "Evidence".

What I take as evidence is 30+ years of buying personal vehicles and doing my own maintenance for the most part, having two family members who are independent mechanics with their own businesses, one with 45 years under his belt, and indirectly managing a fleet of pickups and vans for the last 12 years or so. But carry on \ having fun with this 260,000 mile brake pad life BS. FWIW I showed this thread to the head wrench turner down at the Ford dealer yesterday and he got a better laugh out of it than I did.

[JIMNLIN]

marty wrote:
IF you do a high percentage of miles on a freeway interstate not having to hit the brakes a dozen times a mile, more like zero with cruise on....you will get 2-3x the mileage of the city person.

Good point.
I'm rural out here an seldom see big city stop and go type driving.
I bought a new '03 2500 Dodge/Cummins NV5600 came with a Jacobs exhaust brake thru Dodge Business link program. The Jacobs was activated with a push/pull switch on top of the tranny shifter. It stayed on 90 percent of the time. At 132k miles I got the bug to change the front OEM pads even tho they had a few more miles left.

I see much the same on Dodge/Ram....GM Dmax/A and Ford diesel forums. it truly makes a difference in brake service life on driving style and city vs highway miles of service.

[ktmrfs]

StonedPanther wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Like ALL things great and small. Break life depends upon two major factors.
If you do A LOT of stop and go city type drive. lESS miles.
IF you do a high percentage of miles on a freeway interstate not having to hit the brakes a dozen times a mile, more like zero with cruise on....you will get 2-3x the mileage of the city person.

Yes, the same with tires, in the Midwest or somewhere with flat land where the roads are mostly straight for miles you'll get more miles than in say north central Pennsylvania. But this is about brakes and has involved into some half assed pissing match about factory OEM brake pad life. I was calling someone out for claiming 145K on OEM pads, now there are claims of a quarter of a million miles, or more.
ROFLMAO.

Perhaps physics are different in the PNW than anywhere else in the country, or the manufacturers ship new vehicles there with some super secret squirrel brake package different than everywhere else?

We have 260K, do I hear 300K, 450K, LOL. You folks with those off the wall claims of 250K must also get twice the tire wear and double the fuel mileage too.

No physics ain't different and nope I don't get twice the tire wear, in fact I'm probably pretty hard on tires. On my cars I'm lucky to get 30K out of a set, and I've never got even 40K out of my truck tires Michealin or otherwise. Thankfully Discount tire tread wear warranty is very good. And I rarely top 11mpg towing my trailer. I just guess I must be buying vehicles that have good brake material from the factory. And we have plenty of steep grades around here. But on any vehicle I've had built after 2000my I've never had less than 100K on a set of pads, and I'm hard on brakes. Now my vehicles pre 1990 often had terrible brake life, 30K or less.

[Grit_dog]

@SP, yes some of the claims may be/are rvnet fodder, no doubt. First liar don’t have a chance around here….lol.
But I have to say based on the many miles and much hard use/abuse of ALOT of trucks over the years, there is NO comparison between the last decade and even one decade earlier.
Few company trucks ago I had a 2016 Chevy half ton like Marty has.
Drove it like a rental from the day it came off the car lot, towed 10-14k trailers over the Cascades many times (like it was a stolen vehicle, lol). 3 years and 90k miles later when I passed it down for a new one, it was on it’s third set of shocks, second transmission and just then needed new brake pads. And all it needed was a pad slap. Rotors were still good.
The OE pads were/are also ceramic pads.

By comparison, the first “newish” company truck I got was a ‘92 F1fiddy, in ‘96. 5.oh and a 5 speed. Only had like 25k miles on it by a Project Manager who didn’t even own work boots. 18 months and about 50k miles later, it had just received its second new clutch and was on its 3rd set of brakes too. Did the same stuff I did with that 2016 Chevy mentioned above in similar geographical conditions. To be fair, the tall 1st gear and tall reverse were the death sentences for the clutch. Not the actual on the road driving.

I wouldn’t dismiss 150-200k miles on a newer grampa driven HD pickup brake pads as being unusual or unobtainable by any means. Even in the mountains, with some towing. Especially if it’s a diesel. That’s a good portion of the reason I basically only buy HD personal trucks even if I don’t technically “need” one. (Although the TCs and toyhauler would have been a no go with a half ton but I could have chosen lighter campers)
The wear n tear on a truck made to haul 4000lbs in the bed and/or tow a mobile home up and down a mountain, is pretty minimal if it’s 90% Home Depot runs, commuting and soccer mom duty. Makes them a good value if you keep them long enough to forego a bunch of routine repairs that you’d have to do on a smaller vehicle.

Just like the guys who poop on lifted trucks with big offset tires and wheels….”you’re abusing the truck, it’ll wear out and break stuff from the added stress!”….
Those guys either don’t understand or are just jealous….
ROFL. The added stress is no more than adding a winch bumper or pulling a 12’ trailer with a couple lawn mowers on it. And you’ll “only” get 100k miles out of the brake pads…lol.

[Cummins12V98]

My 98 RAM/CUMMINS 4x4 even with a lengthy commute hardly made it past 50k on the front pads. Rear drums simply never wore out they just finally started cracking. I even removed the rear proportioning valve and added GM 1-1/8" wheel cylinders. Lousy brakes systems are lousy brake systems.

On my 15 running Tow Haul and Exhaust Brake at start of the engine every time I hardly touch the brakes. So based on that 150k is nothing.

[fj12ryder]

StonedPanther wrote:
Yes, the same with tires, in the Midwest or somewhere with flat land where the roads are mostly straight for miles you'll get more miles than in say north central Pennsylvania. But this is about brakes and has involved into some half assed pissing match about factory OEM brake pad life. I was calling someone out for claiming 145K on OEM pads, now there are claims of a quarter of a million miles, or more.
ROFLMAO.

Perhaps physics are different in the PNW than anywhere else in the country, or the manufacturers ship new vehicles there with some super secret squirrel brake package different than everywhere else?

We have 260K, do I hear 300K, 450K, LOL. You folks with those off the wall claims of 250K must also get twice the tire wear and double the fuel mileage too.

Or perhaps you're wrong? When most of the evidence points that way...

[StonedPanther]

blt2ski wrote:
Like ALL things great and small. Break life depends upon two major factors.
If you do A LOT of stop and go city type drive. lESS miles.
IF you do a high percentage of miles on a freeway interstate not having to hit the brakes a dozen times a mile, more like zero with cruise on....you will get 2-3x the mileage of the city person.

Yes, the same with tires, in the Midwest or somewhere with flat land where the roads are mostly straight for miles you'll get more miles than in say north central Pennsylvania. But this is about brakes and has involved into some half assed pissing match about factory OEM brake pad life. I was calling someone out for claiming 145K on OEM pads, now there are claims of a quarter of a million miles, or more.
ROFLMAO.

Perhaps physics are different in the PNW than anywhere else in the country, or the manufacturers ship new vehicles there with some super secret squirrel brake package different than everywhere else?

We have 260K, do I hear 300K, 450K, LOL. You folks with those off the wall claims of 250K must also get twice the tire wear and double the fuel mileage too.

[ktmrfs]

blt2ski wrote:
Like ALL things great and small. Break life depends upon two major factors.
If you do A LOT of stop and go city type drive. lESS miles.
IF you do a high percentage of miles on a freeway interstate not having to hit the brakes a dozen times a mile, more like zero with cruise on....you will get 2-3x the mileage of the city person.
I have best I can tell, 130k on my 1500. I go 160k on an 05 DW GM crew cab. Replaced the brake pads and calipers on my 92 Navistar a year ago with 170k miles. That rig does mostly non freeway miles.
Even my 1990's GMs, got 100k out of rear drums, 25-50k out of front pads, depending upon if an auto, lower, vs manual trans. Not to mention 30-40k per auto trans rebuild vs 80-100k miles per clutch....
Today's rigs are better ALL around than thru the 90's.
2000 on up, ALL brands started getting some serious improvements.

Marty

yes, back in the 90's my cars and trucks would get 25-30K out of a set of front pads, didn't matter if it was a car, van, truck. In the 70's it was somewhat longer. By the early 2000's mfg had
a) gone to much larger rims, gone were 13/14/15 in car and truck rims and 16-18 was common. This allowed the installation of much larger calipers, larger rotors, pads with more surface area
b) gone were asbestos based pads and finally mfg had figured out how to make a ceramic pad that didn't need to heat up to get good bite and had long life.

Every 2000+ vehicle I've had (and a few german mid 90's) have easily gone 100K miles minimum when not long before it was way less. In fact every 3/4 ton 2000 + truck I or neighbors or kids have had have gone at least 150K on a set of pads, and most of these were used in town, lots of braking mixed with about an equal amount of heavy towing in somewhat mountainous terrain.

[blt2ski]

Like ALL things great and small. Break life depends upon two major factors.
If you do A LOT of stop and go city type drive. lESS miles.
IF you do a high percentage of miles on a freeway interstate not having to hit the brakes a dozen times a mile, more like zero with cruise on....you will get 2-3x the mileage of the city person.
I have best I can tell, 130k on my 1500. I go 160k on an 05 DW GM crew cab. Replaced the brake pads and calipers on my 92 Navistar a year ago with 170k miles. That rig does mostly non freeway miles.
Even my 1990's GMs, got 100k out of rear drums, 25-50k out of front pads, depending upon if an auto, lower, vs manual trans. Not to mention 30-40k per auto trans rebuild vs 80-100k miles per clutch....
Today's rigs are better ALL around than thru the 90's.
2000 on up, ALL brands started getting some serious improvements.

Marty

[ktmrfs]

StonedPanther wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"You get 145,000 miles out of the OEM brakes? LOL"


You obviously don't own a modern diesel with an exhaust brake.

I also obviously live in the real world. There is no way in hell you are getting 145,000 miles, or anything even close, out of OEM brakes. Or aftermarket either. Not even if you have half a dozen exhaust brakes on the truck and 3 on the trailer.

Internet forum BS.

I have facts showing your wrong. My sons 2004 duramax has 260K miles on it with the OEM pads and I suspect they will go another 50K. And I'm not the only one. 3 others I know with GM 3/4 ton trucks have ALL passed 250K on the original brakes. And even with that miles the rotors show very little wear.

Oh. and the 2004 does NOT have and EB and over 100K of the miles have been towing a 10K lb trailer around the pacific NW.

BTW GM uses (at least 2004-15) akebono as OEM supplier and the pads are akebono ceramic.

My 2015 Duramax similar. It has 75K miles and the pads are less than 25% worn. And again, most of the miles are from towing a 10K lb trailer around the pacific NW.

And my neighbor with F-2450's has run two of them past 200K with OEM pads.

Brake pads have improved dramatically once they got rid of asbestos, went to larger wheels allowing much larger calipers and move to advance materials such as the ceramic materials.

[Huntindog]

I was a memeber of a sprint car race team 25 years ago. I have seen a lot of drilled/slotted rotors glowing cherry red. after such a race, everything got replaced.

[Grit_dog]

Although he is softening up a bit. Not long ago he would have told anyone who’d listen and some that wouldn’t, that ceramic brake pads were NOT in any way sufficient for HD trucks and towing…lol.

[Grit_dog]

Lol, that’s literally the best part of this forum! Well, there’s several. From people who ask where to poop ?? if they get a camper with no toilet, to the pseudo “sponsored” “senior” members who think belonging to a forum a long time gives them street cred!
In all fairness, 12V is a good dude and knows his “stuff”. Even if he lets you know how much he knows, regularly.