Tow vehicle

[Onyrlef]

In the process of purchasing a 2016 Jayco Alante with V10. Plan to tow a 2011 Frontier (Automatic) after I have the drive shaft disc. installed as well as Blue Ox plates, brake actuator and etc. The tow capacity of the TV is 5k. The Frontier is about 4.25k, if I load it w/ a couple Kayaks and misc gear I'll be pushing up on the tow capacity. Anybody towing a heavier rig like the Frontier with a V10? Any pointers? Transitioning from a Trailmanor, so this will be a different ballgame. Thanks

[mountainkowboy]

PastorCharlie wrote:
The 2wd auto has the neutral in the transmission...it has no transfer case.

You will burn up the trans towing it in neutral.

[PastorCharlie]

The 2wd auto has the neutral in the transmission...it has no transfer case.

[mountainkowboy]

Onyrlef wrote:

mountainkowboy wrote:

Onyrlef wrote:
Is your Ranger automatic? If so are you doing the driveshaft disc. or the pump. How are you going to handle braking? Guessing you should be okay on weight even w/the Harley.I've always heard those limits are from the lawyers anyway and you can fudge on them some. Doubt I'd be in TH without a dinghy but I'll definitely use it when towing, it knocks mileage down a bit but is a transmission saver. I don't plan to cruise at over 58 anyway.

Yup, 2wd auto. I'll be ordering the driveshaft disco. at the end of the month. I have a Brake Buddy from the CR-V, our last toad, to take care of the brakes. The CR-V was just under 4,000lbs in "toad" trim, and the BB worked well behind our old HR moho. As for the weight I'm not worried, the Harley is 645lbs, even if the Ranger is 3,500lbs I'm good.

That's what I'm doing, I'm having my disc. done here in Dallas, by the same outfit that's doing the Blue Ox plates and brake light wiring, I'll be ordering the Blue Ox braking outfit and fitting it myself. Kind of pricey all together but beats buying another vehicle. I'll be pushing up against 4,800 estimated when loaded out but I'll run everything up on the scales before heading for parts unknown, since I plan to run with full fresh water and all.

I do everything myself.....gearhead for life....lol. I will have around $2,700 in it, so it's towable. I looked into other directions, but this ended up being the cheapest.

Oldtymeflyr wrote:
For the Ford Ranger automatic there is a kit that will make it towable without a drive shaft disconnect or pump. It is called the Neutral Tow Kit (NTK) available from Ford. Check to see if it will work. Also, you will need a reprogram of the ECU.

We have used one for 4 years, ours is a 2011 Ranger 4X4. Works well.

That only works for a 4wd, the "neutral" is in the transfer case not the transmission.

[Oldtymeflyr]

For the Ford Ranger automatic there is a kit that will make it towable without a drive shaft disconnect or pump. It is called the Neutral Tow Kit (NTK) available from Ford. Check to see if it will work. Also, you will need a reprogram of the ECU.

We have used one for 4 years, ours is a 2011 Ranger 4X4. Works well.

[Onyrlef]

mountainkowboy wrote:

Onyrlef wrote:
Is your Ranger automatic? If so are you doing the driveshaft disc. or the pump. How are you going to handle braking? Guessing you should be okay on weight even w/the Harley.I've always heard those limits are from the lawyers anyway and you can fudge on them some. Doubt I'd be in TH without a dinghy but I'll definitely use it when towing, it knocks mileage down a bit but is a transmission saver. I don't plan to cruise at over 58 anyway.

Yup, 2wd auto. I'll be ordering the driveshaft disco. at the end of the month. I have a Brake Buddy from the CR-V, our last toad, to take care of the brakes. The CR-V was just under 4,000lbs in "toad" trim, and the BB worked well behind our old HR moho. As for the weight I'm not worried, the Harley is 645lbs, even if the Ranger is 3,500lbs I'm good.

That's what I'm doing, I'm having my disc. done here in Dallas, by the same outfit that's doing the Blue Ox plates and brake light wiring, I'll be ordering the Blue Ox braking outfit and fitting it myself. Kind of pricey all together but beats buying another vehicle. I'll be pushing up against 4,800 estimated when loaded out but I'll run everything up on the scales before heading for parts unknown, since I plan to run with full fresh water and all.

[mountainkowboy]

wildmanbaker wrote:
The limit is imposed by the MH manufacture, not the chassis manufacture. Slide under the rear of your MH and look at the cobbled-up mess that they used to extend the rear of the chassis for the receiver hitch and to support the rear of the MH.

Our chassis is the way it came from Ford, there is no extension. I do a chassis inspection with a creeper every month or so. Gearhead for life, I do 95% of all maint and mechanical work on all my vehicles...keeps me young.

[mountainkowboy]

Onyrlef wrote:
Is your Ranger automatic? If so are you doing the driveshaft disc. or the pump. How are you going to handle braking? Guessing you should be okay on weight even w/the Harley.I've always heard those limits are from the lawyers anyway and you can fudge on them some. Doubt I'd be in TH without a dinghy but I'll definitely use it when towing, it knocks mileage down a bit but is a transmission saver. I don't plan to cruise at over 58 anyway.

Yup, 2wd auto. I'll be ordering the driveshaft disco. at the end of the month. I have a Brake Buddy from the CR-V, our last toad, to take care of the brakes. The CR-V was just under 4,000lbs in "toad" trim, and the BB worked well behind our old HR moho. As for the weight I'm not worried, the Harley is 645lbs, even if the Ranger is 3,500lbs I'm good.

[way2roll]

Onyrlef wrote:
No engineer ever established that the tow rating for all gas burner MH's is 5,000 lbs. Towing capacity is determined by a number of variables. H.P., Torgue, weight of TV, Transmission, and etc. The towing capacity of one MH with a V10 could be 6k and another 5.5 k and yet another 5k. To be on the safe, one size fits all, side therefore towing capacity is universally rated @ 5k.Notice too that the towing capacity of a MH sporting a 2V V10 is the exact same as that of a 3V V10 regardless of the differences in sustained output. Would one care to argue that an engineer determined none of the mitigating factors affect towing capacity or that somehow when all the variables are calculated the magic towing capacity of 5k is always arrived at?

None of this is accurate. I am not sure where you are getting your information that all engineers have determined that all gas MH's have a tow rating of 5k. They don't. There is no "universal standard" or magic number. While it is true that many gassers have a 5k hitch, That's just a component and does not in any way dictate what the actual capacity of the chassis is. It's just a part. I could bolt a 5k hitch to a Miata. Could I tow anything with it? No. I attribute much of this inaccurate claim to be on some dealers who either don't know better or are trying to make a sale. A few people on this thread have tried to explain to you how actual towing capacity is calculated. I am not sure if you are just ignoring that or it's not what you want to hear. Engineers arrive at a Gross Combined Weight rating. There is no "standard". It's very specific to every model. That GCWR is the maximum of all cumulating factors (weight of the RV, Weight of it's contents, weight of fuel, people, towed vehicle) and is arrived at by considering all structural and mechanical components of the RV.

One RV might have a GCWR of 25k with a total weight including contents of 22k. In this case your capacity is 3k. It makes no difference that it has a 5k hitch. Tow capacity is the LESSER of the GCWR minus the weight loaded for travel or the hitch. A dealer may tell you it will tow 5k because it has a 5k hitch. But in reality it's inaccurate. the ONLY way to know is to weigh the RV loaded for travel and subtract from the GCWR. period.

I have seen gassers come off the line with almost no tow capacity all all.

[FloridaRosebud]

wa8yxm wrote:

Do not count on that. Most gasser Motor homes come with a hitch rated for 5K but the actual tow rating is equal to a math equation.

(max combined gross vehicle weight)-(Gross Vehicle Weight)

Example. My Class a had a Max CGVW of 26,000 and a scale weight of 22,000 so it could tow 4,000.. One Chevy Lumina APV (1992) originally (Towed like it was not even there) and later a 2001 Dodge neon (2001) which cost me MPG.

The lumina was 4,000 curb weight, the Neon 2500
Two reasons the Lumina towed easier
1: no tranny drag (Axle lock) v/s tranny drag (Lube Pump)
2: Wind "Spoiling" was better with the lumina

Oh well. RV totaled (Actually that was a good thign) now drive a JEEP (Man does that sucker SIP gasoline. up to 40 MPG at 55 mph (less if I hammer down)

Just to be clear, a Class III hitch by itself is rated at 6,000 lbs trailer/car weight, with a max of 600 lbs tongue weight, not 5,000 lbs. The manufacturer rates the towing max based on their attachment of the hitch to the MH, and as you say, 5,000 lbs seems to be the magic number. But also as you show, the true amount one can tow comes down to math. My MH is the 22k/26k F53 chassis, and fully loaded with tanks full (not black or grey) and my wife and I sitting the the front seats I weight 19,880 lbs. So, in theory, I should be able to tow the max of the Class III hitch (26,000 - 19,880 = 6,120 lbs). BUT - my MH is only rated to tow 5,000 lbs. My toad weighs 4,600 lbs with a full tank of fuel, so I'm under the 5,000 lbs MH max, so I'm good.

Personally, I think it's important to get ones MH and Toad properly weighed so you really know where you stand, but I am amazed how many RV'ers I speak with that have no idea what they truly have. Spoke with a guy who had a Mobile Suites FW a while back. He was towing with a Ford F-250 and was talking about how unstable it was. I asked him his weights and he had no idea, he was just told by someone at Ford when he bought the truck that it would work. Wrong answer. I recall speaking with a rep for Mobile Suites a few years back at an FMCA rally, and he told me they recommend all their FW be pulled with a 350 or 3500 dually.

My wife told me about a post on FB where someone was towing a trailered car, and then a boat behind that. (I believe that is illegal in most states but am not totally sure). They got in some crosswinds and flipped their rig. Thankfully they were not seriously injured, but really?!? Am not surprised.

Al

[Onyrlef]

No engineer ever established that the tow rating for all gas burner MH's is 5,000 lbs. Towing capacity is determined by a number of variables. H.P., Torgue, weight of TV, Transmission, and etc. The towing capacity of one MH with a V10 could be 6k and another 5.5 k and yet another 5k. To be on the safe, one size fits all, side therefore towing capacity is universally rated @ 5k.Notice too that the towing capacity of a MH sporting a 2V V10 is the exact same as that of a 3V V10 regardless of the differences in sustained output. Would one care to argue that an engineer determined none of the mitigating factors affect towing capacity or that somehow when all the variables are calculated the magic towing capacity of 5k is always arrived at?

[wa8yxm]

Onyrlef wrote:
In the process of purchasing a 2016 Jayco Alante with V10. Plan to tow a 2011 Frontier (Automatic) after I have the drive shaft disc. installed as well as Blue Ox plates, brake actuator and etc. The tow capacity of the TV is 5k. The Frontier is about 4.25k, if I load it w/ a couple Kayaks and misc gear I'll be pushing up on the tow capacity. Anybody towing a heavier rig like the Frontier with a V10? Any pointers? Transitioning from a Trailmanor, so this will be a different ballgame. Thanks

Do not count on that. Most gasser Motor homes come with a hitch rated for 5K but the actual tow rating is equal to a math equation.

(max combined gross vehicle weight)-(Gross Vehicle Weight)

Example. My Class a had a Max CGVW of 26,000 and a scale weight of 22,000 so it could tow 4,000.. One Chevy Lumina APV (1992) originally (Towed like it was not even there) and later a 2001 Dodge neon (2001) which cost me MPG.

The lumina was 4,000 curb weight, the Neon 2500
Two reasons the Lumina towed easier
1: no tranny drag (Axle lock) v/s tranny drag (Lube Pump)
2: Wind "Spoiling" was better with the lumina

Oh well. RV totaled (Actually that was a good thign) now drive a JEEP (Man does that sucker SIP gasoline. up to 40 MPG at 55 mph (less if I hammer down)

[FloridaRosebud]

dodge guy wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:

dodge guy wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:

Onyrlef wrote:
Is your Ranger automatic? If so are you doing the driveshaft disc. or the pump. How are you going to handle braking? Guessing you should be okay on weight even w/the Harley.I've always heard those limits are from the lawyers anyway and you can fudge on them some. Doubt I'd be in TH without a dinghy but I'll definitely use it when towing, it knocks mileage down a bit but is a transmission saver. I don't plan to cruise at over 58 anyway.

Those numbers are from the engineers, not lawyers (I'm an engineer). While there are safety factors it doesn't mean you should ignore them. The lawyers will sue you if you do.

Al

lawyers and bean counters most definitely have a say in stuff like this!

You can believe that if you'd like, but having worked with Attorneys in the liability and insurance fields for over 15 years, I can assure you the ratings for hitches, tow bars, and so on are established by engineers.

Al

And then derated by lawyers! Having worked with manuf I know the real ratings on axle and wheel assemblies. They are far higher than what the bean counters and lawyers last say is!

Then we will just have to agree to disagree. They might have been tested to higher numbers to achieve the necessary safety factor, but de-rated from the design? No, not according to my mechanical engineer who spent years working for Dana.


Al

[way2roll]

Never understood the mentality to spend all this money on an Rv, tow vehicle, bars, plates etc, a combo that weights 20-40k lbs rolling down the road and not taking the time to do it the right way. And further to shrug off the engineers who design them and their ratings as the fault of bean counters and lawyers. What agenda does an attorney or accountant have to take the recommendation of an engineer - who could be relied on for expert testimony - ignore that and falsely lower a rating on a MH? Especially given that some RV's have really high tow ratings. It's nothing more than a unsubstantiated excuse for not doing things right. Things happen when you exceed the capacity that wouldn't happen if you didn't. And it's not just yourself you put at risk, it's everyone on the road near you.

[wildmanbaker]

The limit is imposed by the MH manufacture, not the chassis manufacture. Slide under the rear of your MH and look at the cobbled-up mess that they used to extend the rear of the chassis for the receiver hitch and to support the rear of the MH.