2011 Tundra reduced max tow capacity, options?

[jmb667]

So my wife and I have started looking at TTs to determine what we like...we're not buying until next spring, but it's gonna take us that long to figure out the options we like, floorplans, see what's around, etc.

When we bought our 2011 4x4 Tundra CrewMax in August of that year, the spec sheet said we were good for up to 10K. Toyota has since reduced that number to 9K...to me, that's a huge difference? What really stinks is that one of the TTs we like is the Cougar High County 321RES, but it weighs in at 7865 shipped weight (I can't find a UVW or GVWR on the Keystone site).

Being completely new to this, and having never towed anything besides a couple small utility trailers (sub-1K) locally, I'm hoping for some advice:
1. Based on my math, with a 20% safety margin, I'm looking at 7800lbs max tow weight; is that correct?
2. That 7800lbs should be the GVWR...so UVW plus any stuff we put in the TT, correct?
3. Will a WDH make any difference in the max capacity (a coworker told me that it would...but I'm cautious)?

I've already assumed that we'll get a WDH with whatever TT we get...seems like a no brainer based on my reading here (been lurking for quite a while before posting).

Thanks in advance for your help; I've read dozens of threads and looked at what other Tundra owners are pulling, so I have a good idea, but thought I'd ask some specifics if anyone has a minute to assist.

Thanks!!

[newstome2]

HELLO, JMB667:

I am newstome2 and I have read your request and the comments made by others on this site.

My main observation of your situation is to stop guessing!

Trailer loads are far too dangerous to fool around with and you need to calculate hard data to come to the proper answer. I faced the exact same situation you are a few years ago and made sure I did a lot of research before I purchased my trailer and tow vehicle.

As such, I have detailed trailer load calculation sheets that I have sent to members of this forum. It was drawn up using a lot of personal research and expert instruction on trailer loads and the calculations needed to arrive at a proper answer.

It has served me well.

If you wish, I can send it to you via a PDF file. You simply put in your information via your tow vehicle specs and those from your trailer. Be CAREFUL relying on comments or advice from others who are not sure of what you are asking. They mean well, but you are responsible in the end.

Once you work the figures yourself, then you will know the proper answer without issues down the road. Make sure you obtain the actual specs on your tow vehicle from the WEB and the same from the sticker that came with your trailer.

Under no conditions rely on what a dealer or salesman tells you at a lot. I have heard many tall tales personally from them and they were often wrong or misleading me to make the sale.

Also remember that 'Dry Weight' often does not include the air conditioning units attached to trailers, nor water or propane. It also does not include loads you add.

My sheets explain all of this along with a legend that explains terms used in the industry.

Another great source that I use is a video instruction series called 'RV Education 101' by Mark POLK, a recognized national expert on RV systems, loads, weight ratios and types of vehicles to match all trailers. He is on the WEB and featured in Good Sam Magazine and writes for many RV outlets.

The best thing is that this series is FREE via YouTube. I later bought his best CD's for my library.

Simply type in his name or RV Education 101 on YouTube. I used his information and more before I bought my new truck for my RV.

Good luck and take care,

newstome2@live.com (Tim)
Saturday

[canadiankid]

Sorry to hijack this tread but: If someone with a crewmax 5.7 4x4 with tow package could tell me their front axle rating and rear axle rating from your door sticker I would own you one for life (yes I said life:) I am trying to compare it to my 2WD tundra.

Thanks. Don.

[jerry1946]

I read somewhere that Toyota volunteered to began using a new method of setting tow weights that lower the weight some and that other makes will be required to use the same method soon. I have a 2010 Tundra double cab rated at 10500 but the same truck new is less. I tow a Rockwood 2904SS 33' loaded weight up to 7600 lb. Tows with no problem.

[legolas]

jmb667 wrote:
So my wife and I have started looking at TTs to determine what we like...we're not buying until next spring, but it's gonna take us that long to figure out the options we like, floorplans, see what's around, etc.

When we bought our 2011 4x4 Tundra CrewMax in August of that year, the spec sheet said we were good for up to 10K. Toyota has since reduced that number to 9K...to me, that's a huge difference? What really stinks is that one of the TTs we like is the Cougar High County 321RES, but it weighs in at 7865 shipped weight (I can't find a UVW or GVWR on the Keystone site).

Being completely new to this, and having never towed anything besides a couple small utility trailers (sub-1K) locally, I'm hoping for some advice:
1. Based on my math, with a 20% safety margin, I'm looking at 7800lbs max tow weight; is that correct?
2. That 7800lbs should be the GVWR...so UVW plus any stuff we put in the TT, correct?
3. Will a WDH make any difference in the max capacity (a coworker told me that it would...but I'm cautious)?

I've already assumed that we'll get a WDH with whatever TT we get...seems like a no brainer based on my reading here (been lurking for quite a while before posting).

Thanks in advance for your help; I've read dozens of threads and looked at what other Tundra owners are pulling, so I have a good idea, but thought I'd ask some specifics if anyone has a minute to assist.

Thanks!!

I came to this party a little late. Every one here is trying to help and some actually have some helpful advice.

Let me suggest that you review the very good article in Trailer Life Magazines "Towing Guide" it will answer most if not all your questions with factual data and provide some very good examples. Towing an RV is an experience that you want to be fun and enjoyable each time you take her out. It won't be if you push your RV hard up against your TV's limits. Just my 2 cents.

[jrichard]

CADreaming wrote:
Thanks to everyone for their input. jrichards, I may be overthinking this whole thing; however, after talking to so many sales people and reading SO many blogs on proper towing, I'm trying to un-confuse myself. One salesman told me that as long as our trailer weight didn't exceed our tow vehicle weight, we were fine. Another tried to tell me that adding a WDH would give us more towing capability (see what I mean ... ). We don't plan on using this TT to live in but, rather, as a supplement to some extended traveling (I still like "hotel camping" ... ). Thus, we don't plan on hauling a ton of "stuff", but we still want to be comfortable ... and safe.

Taking the given numbers at face value, it appears that towing a 5400 lb trailer (max) may be okay; however, per some of the postings I've read, if we have 6600 lbs GVWR - 5500 curb wt (weighed on a scale) - 600 lbs passengers/gas/WDH, we get a real tongue wt of 500 lbs -- much less than our 690 lb book rating.

Taking the new tongue weight and using the 15% ratio which I keep reading about, then the maximum trailer wt should be 500 lbs (tongue)/ .15 = 3,330 lbs maximum trailer weight. If you use a 10% ratio, then it becomes: Maximum Trailer Weight = 500 lbs / .10 = 5,000 lbs. which means the trailer we're looking at is over our limit by 400 lbs.

I'm just wondering whether I'm forgetting something in this equation or if my figures are wrong. Thanks.

I think you're thinking about it almost perfectly. There are several limiting numbers, none of which should be ignore. And you should always ignore the sales guy, lol. I had one tell me if you're using a WD hitch, then tow ratings and capacities no longer matter.

A WD hitch doesn't increase your tow rating, but it does reduce your tongue weight. A rule of thumb I've seen that seems pretty good as a real world estimate: a WD hitch will redistribute 20% of the tongue weight to the trailer and 20% to the front axle of the tow vehicle.

So, while I don't think you should exceed 690lbs before hooking up the WD hitch, a WD hitch will redistribute weight, so your calculation is conservative. If you have 500lbs of payload capacity left for the trailer and you're assuming 20% of the tongue weight will be shifted back to the trailer, I think you could look at a non WD tongue weight of 625lbs (500/.8)

[2012Coleman]

I have always been wary of manufacturers tow specs - here are some great links - I wish these could be made into a sticky:

What does it mean to call a pickup truck a half-ton truck?

New SAE Trailering Standards Explained

Why the Big Three are Stalling on Truck Ratings

Excerpts from above:
Most manufacturer procedures generate higher tow maximum ratings because they assume that the truck has no options, you are alone with no luggage and you weigh 150 pounds (the average between a 50th percentile adult male and a 50th percentile adult female).

With the possibility that implementing J2807 would reduce tow ratings, most manufacturers chickened out. When the 2013 model year rolled around, Toyota was the only manufacturer that had fully embraced the new towing capacity testing procedures. It currently lists J2807-derived tow ratings for the Tundra while the pickup segment's big dogs, Chrysler, Ford and General Motors, all refuse to dive into the pool and cede tow-rating valor

the standard cost most Toyota models, on average, 300 to 400 pounds in tow-rating reduction. The highest tow rating for the Tundra full-size pickup dropped from 10,800 to 10,400 pounds under the new standard, for example.

So it's fairly simple right now: if you're in the market for a pickup and want one with a tow rating generated by the SAE method, the Toyota's Tundra is the only model complying with the new standard — and its tow rating subsequently is not the highest you'll find.

If you want a Chrysler, Ford or GM full-size pickup truck rated under the new towing standard, it appears you'd have to wait until 2015 when Ford launches the new-generation F-Series. That's assuming the three companies stick to their positions and all bite the reality bullet at the same time.

Until then, it's best to continue to view tow ratings skeptically, particularly when comparison-shopping.

[CaLBaR]

I think you will be fine. The Tundra is a very capable tow vehicle. I have a 2009 and my trailer is 6200lbs dry and between 7000 - 7300 lbs loaded to camp. Have towed to Florida from Ontario 2 times and multitudes of trips over the last 4 years. If I compare my Tundra to my '06 GMC Sierra the Tundra is rated for 1290 lbs payload and the GMC was 1700 lbs. My GM, weighed at the dump scales with 1700 lbs of junk squated as much as my Tundra with 2000 lbs junk. Just did not realize that I had laoded that much in the Tundra as I load them to give me a certain play on the end stops. Tundra also handled and stopped better than the GM even though it was overweight and the GM wasn't.

Not sure how the manufacturers come up with payload and other ratings but based on my experience you will be more than fine with a good weight distribution hitch even if you are 400 lbs over weight. I use the Dual Cam and have never had an issue.

Just my 2 cents. By the way not trying to say anything bad about the GM as it was a great truck when I owned it just trying to give a real world weighed payload comparison to try and alleviate your concerns.

[CADreaming]

Thanks to everyone for their input. jrichards, I may be overthinking this whole thing; however, after talking to so many sales people and reading SO many blogs on proper towing, I'm trying to un-confuse myself. One salesman told me that as long as our trailer weight didn't exceed our tow vehicle weight, we were fine. Another tried to tell me that adding a WDH would give us more towing capability (see what I mean ... ). We don't plan on using this TT to live in but, rather, as a supplement to some extended traveling (I still like "hotel camping" ... ). Thus, we don't plan on hauling a ton of "stuff", but we still want to be comfortable ... and safe.

Taking the given numbers at face value, it appears that towing a 5400 lb trailer (max) may be okay; however, per some of the postings I've read, if we have 6600 lbs GVWR - 5500 curb wt (weighed on a scale) - 600 lbs passengers/gas/WDH, we get a real tongue wt of 500 lbs -- much less than our 690 lb book rating.

Taking the new tongue weight and using the 15% ratio which I keep reading about, then the maximum trailer wt should be 500 lbs (tongue)/ .15 = 3,330 lbs maximum trailer weight. If you use a 10% ratio, then it becomes: Maximum Trailer Weight = 500 lbs / .10 = 5,000 lbs. which means the trailer we're looking at is over our limit by 400 lbs.

I'm just wondering whether I'm forgetting something in this equation or if my figures are wrong. Thanks.

[jrichard]

CADreaming wrote:
Spent several weekends listening to TT salesmen and found a trailer hubby and I both like -- a Lance 1685. Now we need a reality check.

Tow vehicle is a 2004 Tundra SR5 V8 Double Cab, 4x4, w/tow package. Weighed weight is 5500 lbs with shell, bed liner, one person and a 1/3 tank of gas (add in one average size husband,one 45 lb Border Collie, more gas and a WDH). Tow capacity is 6600 lbs, GCWR 11,800. Tongue wt 690 lbs.

The Lance 1685 is 3405 lbs unloaded (I read somewhere that the Factory Weight is 3877 lbs with full propane, batteries and spare tire), hitch weight 275 lbs, GVWR 5400 lbs (CCC is abt 2000 lbs).

I've crunched the numbers several times and, while it's a little on the "high side", it seems do-able. What am I missing?

Looking just at the info you provided, you appear within limits. 11800-5500 = 6300 lbs left in your GCWR. Why do you think you're missing something? (If you're looking at the numbers of the OP, his truck is entirely different than yours...you have the old style small Tundra with the small motor). With all 1/2 tons and Toyota in particular, the limiting factor is usually payload capacity. Since you're already carrying a shell, you should take a look at your capacity and how much you're already carrying.

[jrichard]

jmb667 wrote:

jrichard wrote:
I have the 2008 model of your truck and tow a 6500lb (unloaded) trailer without any problems. Depending on the length of the trip, I'm 7500-8000lbs loaded

Thanks! This is the "I have this same truck and tow X trailer at Y weight" response I was hoping for! What type of WDH setup do you have on our Tundra?

I'm using a Blue Ox Sway Pro (the version with the adjustable thumbscrew at the ball mount...it's now changed slightly) and have been happy with it. Others I like are the Reese cam and the Equalizer. They all have pros and cons but will do a good job.

[Lowsuv]

Komfort makes solid trailers with insightful user features for a reasonable price .
mine is a 2002 21T purchased new .
it is our 4th rv and the logical choice after learning about trailers .
i would buy another except that this one is holding up very well .
we boondock camp in the ubiquitous free camping areas that Oregon is blessed with .
our camp spot is often a couple of miles down a gravel road a little distance from asphalt roads .
the Komfort has held up well for this type of camping.
Komfort is made in Oregon and a logical choice for a west coast RV .
larger tanks , heavier frame , user friendly layouts , shock absorbers ,
built in water pressure regulator , built in winterizing plumbing circuit ,
Heavier Duty Tires , Larger Payload capacities , additional skylites , larger windows, foam insulation ,
spare located under the trailer frame , additional interior lighting ,
flourescent lights in bath and kitchen , are features of Komforts .
Artic Fox gets all of the glamour . Komfort is more solidly built and has more user friendly features .
Either would be better than 90 % of the trailers available.

[eabc5454]

We just traded in our 2010 Toyota Tundra with the tow package - 10400lbs tow capacity and our 2011 Keystone Bullet 250RKS. We had that combination for all of the last three summers.

We originally started out with a 4Runner, but it was far too small in wheelbase and towing capacity, regardless of what the TT salesman said. We traded in the 4Runner on the first weekend out. "Dry weight" was 4885. On the scales, loaded for camping, including dogs, people, gear, fuel, etc., we were 6100 lbs. We used an Equalizer hitch and loaded the trailer carefully.

This is what we learned - buy only what your TV can tow comfortably, with a large margin, or be prepared to buy a new TV. I think what you're looking at in TTs may be a little too heavy for your current TV.

That said, the Tundra performed flawlessly for the entire three years, and I miss it every day.

Elizabeth

[CADreaming]

Spent several weekends listening to TT salesmen and found a trailer hubby and I both like -- a Lance 1685. Now we need a reality check.

Tow vehicle is a 2004 Tundra SR5 V8 Double Cab, 4x4, w/tow package. Weighed weight is 5500 lbs with shell, bed liner, one person and a 1/3 tank of gas (add in one average size husband,one 45 lb Border Collie, more gas and a WDH). Tow capacity is 6600 lbs, GCWR 11,800. Tongue wt 690 lbs.

The Lance 1685 is 3405 lbs unloaded (I read somewhere that the Factory Weight is 3877 lbs with full propane, batteries and spare tire), hitch weight 275 lbs, GVWR 5400 lbs (CCC is abt 2000 lbs).

I've crunched the numbers several times and, while it's a little on the "high side", it seems do-able. What am I missing?

[jmb667]

Derrick. I must have missed that one! Thanks for your example, much appreciated!!