2020 Ford 7.3L Ike Gauntlet

[ShinerBock]

It did way better than I expected going up.

LINK

[ib516]

deleted

[ShinerBock]

As I said before, I don't care about what they do elsewhere. If you want to start a thread about whether other countries use LPG or CNG then feel free to start a thread about it. This one is about an American 7.3L F250 going up the ike.

[RobertRyan]

ShinerBock wrote:
The tanks my company makes can carry both CNG and LPG. However CNG is predominately used in the automotive industry due to how clean it burns, and how quickly it disperses since it is lighter than air. This makes it much safer to use. LPG is heavier than air and poses a greater safety risk in an accident because it will linger towards the ground instead of dissolving into the air quickly.

Not the experience elsewhere, LPG is favoured as a long distance fuel. CNG short haul. both are pretty safe

The most viable operations for CNG in Australia are currently either back-to-base arrangements, where vehicles return
to the same depot each day, such as bus fleets, or point-to-point operations between bases. In these situations, the
fleet operator may own or lease CNG refuelling equipment or contract a specialist fuel supplier to supply fuel to the
vehicles. Your local gas network operator can help identify how the gas network can be utilised for fleet ope

[ShinerBock]

The tanks my company makes can carry both CNG and LPG. However CNG is predominately used in the automotive industry due to how clean it burns, and how quickly it disperses since it is lighter than air. This makes it much safer to use. LPG is heavier than air and poses a greater safety risk in an accident because it will linger towards the ground instead of dissolving into the air quickly.

[RobertRyan]

Grit Dog wrote:
is the part the loyal gas engine folks don't like to acknowledge. Jump back 15-20 years to what is kind of the start of "modern" drivetrains.
Big fuel injected gassers, high pressure injected diesels, more than 4 cogs in a transmission....
Gas engines were HP in the mid-high 300s and TQ in the high 3s, low 400s.
Diesels were in the 300hp range and 500-600ft lbs.
Gas engines are now low to mid 400s HP and low to mid 400s TQ.
Diesels are 400-500hp and 900-1000tq.

The diesels have almost doubled in what counts for towing, torque, and the gas engines have made great strides in efficiency and notable gains, but nothing earth shattering.

They have only started putting some development into Modern Diesel engines compared to Petrol( Gas) engines, so developments will become more dramatic in the future

[RobertRyan]

ShinerBock wrote:
Not here. We are able to get up to 1,000 miles from our largest CNG tanks. Soon we will be able to go 1,100 miles which is not far off from the standard 1,200 miles that most long haul trucks with two 100 gallon tanks can achieve.

CNG is a pretty poor alternative, much better LPG if not using Diesel

CNG - compressed natural gas storage has a lower energy density than LPG. ... Another difference between CNG and LPG cars is the tank pressure. LPG pressure is less than 2 MPa whilst CNG - compressed natural gas storage is 20 to 25 MPa. This means high pressure CNG tanks are heavier and more expensive than LPG tanks.

[ShinerBock]

Not here. We are able to get up to 1,000 miles from our largest CNG tanks. Soon we will be able to go 1,100 miles which is not far off from the standard 1,200 miles that most long haul trucks with two 100 gallon tanks can achieve.

[RobertRyan]

Shiner Brock wrote:
that is the case then maybe Europe as advanced as we are with CNG/LPG because storage problems and distance is not an issue for the US. Companies like UPS are able to store CNG on at there facilities and our 175 DGE tanks that Momentum Fuel Technologies, a subsidiary of the company I work for, makes gives them a range of 800-1000 miles. That is like traveling from Berlin to Manchester on one tank. Or from Sydney to Adelaide. We are also about to come out with a tank system that can hold even more. 

Compared to LPG or AVoGas it is a fairly poor alternative CNG works best in short haul applications NOT long distance

[ShinerBock]

RobertRyan wrote:

Got nothing to do with it. Compressed Natural Gas is pretty easy to obtain in places like Europe, LPG is another easily sourced fuel that can be used as a long distance substiute. CNG is more restricted as redult of its storage problems to shorter distances.

IF that is the case then maybe Europe as advanced as we are with CNG/LPG because storage problems and distance is not an issue for the US. Companies like UPS are able to store CNG on at there facilities and our 175 DGE tanks that Momentum Fuel Technologies, a subsidiary of the company I work for, makes gives them a range of 800-1000 miles. That is like traveling from Berlin to Manchester on one tank. Or from Sydney to Adelaide. We are also about to come out with a tank system that can hold even more.

[RobertRyan]

Shiner Brock wrote:
This is false. Studies from Cummins and others in the industry show that there is only a 5-10% drop in fuel economy from a diesel powered truck to CNG diesel powered truck. Since the CNG cost much less here thanks to our over abundance of it in the US, the cost per mile is much lower for a CNG powered diesel. Not only that, but since it burns much leaner, there is no need for a DPF or SCR system. The 160 & 175 DGE tanks that my company currently builds allows the truck to go between 800-1,000 miles between fillups.

What they do outside of NA regarding CNG is really not my concern, but most of the world does not have the amount of natural gas the US does so this may be a big reason why it has not taken off in other places. You also might be thinking of gas engine CNG conversion which is not the same as a diesel engine CNG conversion. 

Got nothing to do with it. Compressed Natural Gas is pretty easy to obtain in places like Europe, LPG is another easily sourced fuel that can be used as a long distance substiute. CNG is more restricted as redult of its storage problems to shorter distances.

Historically, CNG has been used onshore for gas supply over short distances and in relatively small volumes. While the cost of delivered CNG depends on project specific conditions such as gas volume, in general CNG can be economically viable for volumes up to around 5 MMscf/d and distances up to 800 km.

CNG - compressed natural gas storage has a lower energy density than LPG. ... Another difference between CNG and LPG cars is the tank pressure. LPG pressure is less than 2 MPa whilst CNG - compressed natural gasstorage is 20 to 25 MPa. This means high pressure CNG tanks are heavier and more expensive than LPG tanks

[blofgren]

goducks10 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

danrclem wrote:
If you like your CTD you can keep your CTD. 😉

I don't think anybody is trying to convince others to sell what they have and buy a 7.3. It's just another option and won't be right for everybody but will be right for some. I know I won't be buying one unless it's several years from now.

I absolutely intend on keeping my CTD until death do us part. The point I was trying to make is that 5 mpg (or possibly less towing a large fiver) will get old pretty quickly....

I get roughly 2 mpg less going from my 12 CTD to my 18 6.4 when towing. Where that comes into play is the smaller 32 gal tank. My Ram CTD had 35 gal
Not wanting to run either empty and figuring 5 gal for a cushion that gives me 315 miles for the CTD and 229 miles for the 6.4. Thats 86 miles a tank. Makes a big difference when you're in unfamiliar areas where fuel is uncertain. A few times we had 200 mile stretches with not knowing if some podunk town had gas. Gas Buddy wasn't always reliable.
On a 3200 mile trip this summer I found myself topping off the tank a 3/4 full a couple times just to be safe.

What are you pulling and exactly what mileage did you get with both trucks? Remember, that the 2013 and up CTD's run DEF which increased the fuel economy considerably. I get a solid 10-11 mpg pulling my 16k high profile fiver.

I top off my fuel tank a lot while towing as well; I find it much less stressful than worrying about making the next town. 🙂

A 5er and a TT. Both in the 9,000+ range. Regens on the 12 didn't help mpg's much. 😞
The 12 CTD got anywhere between 10.5-12 mpg depending on conditions. Rarely saw 12 mpg. I always figures 10.5 for range purposes. The 6.4, 4.10 towing the 9500 lb TT gets 8.5-9 mpg.
I don't go slow and do push things when I can.

That's not bad for a gas truck; if I ever look to switch trucks I will definitely give the gas a hard look.

[Grit_dog]

ib516 wrote:

The diesel did downshift less though, and it was a better "tow rig" overall. I can imagine with the newest crop of diesels approaching and exceeding 1000 lbs-ft of tq that would only be even better.

^ This is the part the loyal gas engine folks don't like to acknowledge. Jump back 15-20 years to what is kind of the start of "modern" drivetrains.
Big fuel injected gassers, high pressure injected diesels, more than 4 cogs in a transmission....
Gas engines were HP in the mid-high 300s and TQ in the high 3s, low 400s.
Diesels were in the 300hp range and 500-600ft lbs.
Gas engines are now low to mid 400s HP and low to mid 400s TQ.
Diesels are 400-500hp and 900-1000tq.

The diesels have almost doubled in what counts for towing, torque, and the gas engines have made great strides in efficiency and notable gains, but nothing earth shattering.

[goducks10]

blofgren wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

danrclem wrote:
If you like your CTD you can keep your CTD. 😉

I don't think anybody is trying to convince others to sell what they have and buy a 7.3. It's just another option and won't be right for everybody but will be right for some. I know I won't be buying one unless it's several years from now.

I absolutely intend on keeping my CTD until death do us part. The point I was trying to make is that 5 mpg (or possibly less towing a large fiver) will get old pretty quickly....

I get roughly 2 mpg less going from my 12 CTD to my 18 6.4 when towing. Where that comes into play is the smaller 32 gal tank. My Ram CTD had 35 gal
Not wanting to run either empty and figuring 5 gal for a cushion that gives me 315 miles for the CTD and 229 miles for the 6.4. Thats 86 miles a tank. Makes a big difference when you're in unfamiliar areas where fuel is uncertain. A few times we had 200 mile stretches with not knowing if some podunk town had gas. Gas Buddy wasn't always reliable.
On a 3200 mile trip this summer I found myself topping off the tank a 3/4 full a couple times just to be safe.

What are you pulling and exactly what mileage did you get with both trucks? Remember, that the 2013 and up CTD's run DEF which increased the fuel economy considerably. I get a solid 10-11 mpg pulling my 16k high profile fiver.

I top off my fuel tank a lot while towing as well; I find it much less stressful than worrying about making the next town. 🙂

A 5er and a TT. Both in the 9,000+ range. Regens on the 12 didn't help mpg's much. 😞
The 12 CTD got anywhere between 10.5-12 mpg depending on conditions. Rarely saw 12 mpg. I always figures 10.5 for range purposes. The 6.4, 4.10 towing the 9500 lb TT gets 8.5-9 mpg.
I don't go slow and do push things when I can.

[ShinerBock]

RobertRyan wrote:

Shiner brock wrote:
That is not true either because they are also using Cummins diesel CNG engines as well in their bigger trucks. Cummins Wesport is also working on a CNG version of the ISV 5.0L V8 because the ISB 6.7L CNG engine is too long to fit into there van trucks.

CNG has limitations as a long distance alternative to diesel. That is why it has not taken off outside and inside NA

This is false. Studies from Cummins and others in the industry show that there is only a 5-10% drop in fuel economy from a diesel powered truck to CNG diesel powered truck. Since the CNG cost much less here thanks to our over abundance of it in the US, the cost per mile is much lower for a CNG powered diesel. Not only that, but since it burns much leaner, there is no need for a DPF or SCR system. The 160 & 175 DGE tanks that my company currently builds allows the truck to go between 800-1,000 miles between fillups.

What they do outside of NA regarding CNG is really not my concern, but most of the world does not have the amount of natural gas the US does so this may be a big reason why it has not taken off in other places. You also might be thinking of gas engine CNG conversion which is not the same as a diesel engine CNG conversion.