Hi to all, new member and (hopefully) soon to be new camper owner. I don't actually own a camper yet, doing research and coming up with some conflicting advice for what I can/can't tow. Needing some help as I'm brand new to all of this and a little confused.We bought the 2021 Subaru Outback version that is rated by the company to tow 3,500 pounds. The Tongue weight max is 350 pounds.. Based on those numbers, we've been looking at what we could potentially buy that our Outback could pull.We zeroed in on the Little Guy Mini Max, GVWR of 2,900 pounds and tongue weight 280 pounds. To make sure I'm not making a mistake, I've asked other users...by and large they've said I shouldn't attempt to haul the mini max with the Outback. But then I'm told by those that do that they've had no problems at all.Looking for experienced advice on this. Thank you all in advance!Rick

Include in your base numbers payload max for the SUV. Everything in the Outback plus tongue, hitch and weight distribution pounds counts against your payload. Remember “why, big fella, you can tow anything on this lot with that SUV” isn’t true. 280 pounds of tongue weight is too low for a 2900 pound TT IMO. 13 to 15% is better. Number one defense against sway. Back to payload but this time for the trailer. What is it?

the tongue weight quote is for an EMPTY trailer. put propane in the tank(s) stuff in the trailer, and a battery or 2 on the tongue and you will be over the 350 lbs. Trailer tongue weight is usually closer to 15% of the trailer weight at a minimum.As an example our outback trailer had a quoted empty tongue weight which I verified when we bought the trailer of about 750lbs. I figured once the trailer was loaded up and batteries on the tongue and propane in the tanks and the water tank filled I'd be around 1400lbs. I was low. depending on what we have loaded into the trailer tongue weight varies from 1400 to 1550 lbs. near double the true empty weight.On a 3000 lb LOADED (not empty shipping weight) trailer expect 500lbs on the tongue. One big issue is that trailer mfg design for about 15% tongue weight and vehicle mfg design for a 10% tongue weight. See the problem?Also if the empty weight of the trailer is 2900lbs, my guess is once you put your stuff in the trailer even with an empty fresh water tank you will be over the 3500lbs. And the tow rating usually assumes you have NOTHING else loaded into the car, no passengers, no luggage, just you and a full tank of gas.So, personally I think you will be over the tongue weight and trailer weight by the time your done.we have friends that pull trailers with an outback, but the trailers they have are much lighter, small "pop up" tent trailers, no frontal area, low overall weight. And it works out well for them.

Thank you ktmrfs...appreciate the information, lots to digest!The empty weight of the camper I'm interested in (the Mini Max) is actually 1,991 pounds. 2,900 is the gross weight allowed (sorry if I didn't get that right). Does this change anything in your mind, or should I still figure out a way to downsize?Thanks very much again.

Welcome to the forum Rick!Using the GVWR of the little trailer (2,900) is a good start.If you load that trailer to the max, and figure 12% tongue weight, you would just fit the 350 lb max available. IMO 10% tongue wt is absolute minimum, but more than 12% not necessary.I don't know the dimensions of the Little Guy trailer, but your Subaru manual should give a trailer towing frontal area allowed. A flat bed trailer weighing 3,500 would tow much easier than an 8x8 frontal travel trailer weighing 2,900.Towing long distance, or just more close to home? Towing flat country, or up/down in the mts?Being a new vehicle, will help, but over time, may take it's toll. If you give it a try, and you feel you don't have enough tow vehicle, can you afford to take the hit, and trade for a different new vehicle?Those are my thoughts, but only you can decide.Good luck,Jerry

Jerry, thanks so much for the reply.The Mini Max is 17 feet long...we're in AZ, so it would be mountainous at times. Also thinking about long hauls eventually.Good info, all around. Thanks for this.Rick

2021 Outback & Mini Max | Good Sam Community

MFL
Nomad II
Sep 22, 2021
RinconRick wrote:
Hi APT...yes, it's the 2021 Outback XT (Touring) model. Subaru rates it at 3500 pounds tow-capable, and the tongue limit is 350. It would mean paying strict attention to what I'm loading and where (in both the Outback and the teardrop) each time I use it, but I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. I think I'm going to rent a small uhaul trailer and test how it does at various weights.

APT is a reliable source of information!

As to renting a uhaul, try to get one with similar frontal area, height/width. With TTs/cargo trailers, it is more about towing a large box into the wind, than the actual wt.

Jerry
RinconRick
Explorer
Sep 22, 2021
Pretty good reason to go on a diet finally! :)
RinconRick
Explorer
Sep 22, 2021
Hi APT...yes, it's the 2021 Outback XT (Touring) model. Subaru rates it at 3500 pounds tow-capable, and the tongue limit is 350. It would mean paying strict attention to what I'm loading and where (in both the Outback and the teardrop) each time I use it, but I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. I think I'm going to rent a small uhaul trailer and test how it does at various weights.
APT
Explorer
Sep 22, 2021
Is your Outback an XT model? If so, then you have the same power as the Ascent which is rated for much higher tow rating. Suspension is weaker which can be addressed after you try to tow that RV.. The CVT is fine, although I do recommend using manual mode and "shifting yourself" in manual mode so the belt isn't always changing ratios or unlocking the torque convertor. CVTs have a bad reputation from 2005, but I am not hearing of common recent failures of 2015+ models even from abuse.

I tow an open landscape trailer, 12x6.5 with about 2500 pounds loaded (and no brakes :) ) with my 3.6L and CVT. I would be comfortable towing that Little Guy teardrop with mine. I can monitor the trans temperature through my infotainment system, and I expect that is still available with the later 11" screen. If the temps get over say 240* F for short times or 210* F for 30min+, then a transmission shop can install a higher capacity cooler than stock.
ktmrfs
Explorer II
Sep 21, 2021
RinconRick wrote:
Thank you ktmrfs...appreciate the information, lots to digest!

The empty weight of the camper I'm interested in (the Mini Max) is actually 1,991 pounds. 2,900 is the gross weight allowed (sorry if I didn't get that right). Does this change anything in your mind, or should I still figure out a way to downsize?

Thanks very much again.

the empty weight and tongue weight now make more sense. closer to the expected 12-15%.

A lot depends on where you go, how often you go and how long the drive is. IMHO your still pushing the limit for the outback, especially if it has a CVT transmission that is common on many outbacks. Short trips on flat ground, may not be much of an issue. Many hills or mountain climbs with a CVT AND a trailer in tow, near the combined weight limit you (and the car) may not do well.

do a web search on CVT transmission and you may see what some of the limitations are.
RinconRick
Explorer
Sep 21, 2021
Thanks to all...good info and lots more to think about. We're not buying anything until I know it's a comfortable fit all the way around.

Thanks again.
bgum
Explorer
Sep 21, 2021
There is a web site you can visit and become a member to ask actual member users .

Nucamp tab forum. Or nucamp tag forum.
There you may find someone actually towing with the TV and rv you are asking about.

There is also a Little Guy Minimal forum and a face book forum also.

Good luck in your research.
GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Sep 21, 2021
I’d vote for a pop up vs. a travel trailer. Just not enough vehicle especially with the CVT. That tow rating is more for a utility type trailer.
I’ve had Subarus for the last 30 years, my kids drive ‘em as do my in laws. Absolutely love ours, but I wouldn’t tow anything more tha than a pop up.
deltabravo
Nomad
Sep 21, 2021
I've been reading a lot about towing smaller TTs with Subarus on a different RV forum. The general consensus is this: CVT equipped vehicle is horrible for towing a big square box.
carringb
Explorer
Sep 21, 2021
Subaru is not SAE J2807 compliant, so there's no testing to ensure it can pull long or steep grades or in hot weather. The CVT is susceptible to going into "protect" mode once it starts slipping the drive-belt. I would no way consider pulling a camper trailer any sort of long distance with it, especially in hot weather.