30A panel on large trailer... too small?

[vlopddap]

My father-in-law just purchased a slightly used 26 feet long travel trailer, with as well, a 30A electrical panel. He have a 13.5K roof AC and a electric/DSI water heater, just like most of travel trailer in this size. When he run both the water heater in electric mode and the A/C, the first circuit breaker are triggering after a few minutes... his trailer have a full outside kitchen, but if he run both of the electric toaster outside and the electrical coffee maker inside, the second circuit breaker are also triggering after a few minutes. I am owning myself a 8 feet pop-up camper so this is not the kind of concern I have on it.

I am not that much a RV specialist, however in everyday's life, I am a skilled computer/electronic technician so I surely have a good skill in general electricity and at this point I can't understand why the hell somebody put a 30A service on that size of travel trailer with that kind of equipment. It's a non-sense to me! I don't think his camper have any defect anywhere, I just think it's overloaded from the factory.

If I take the 6 gallon electric water heater, it surely have something like a 1000W+ heating element, which is over 8A continuous. Then apparently it's connected to the same circuit as the AC, which is a 13.5K compressor AC, so obviously it's a lot of power for a single 15A circuit!!! I also suspect that the RV electrical pane itself also drain some power for 12V inverter, battery charger, interior lights, etc. I don't have the exact schematic of the panel. But anyway...

Then, apparently all the 120V outlet are connected together inside and outside the camper (outside kitchen) on a single 15A circuit (the second one). So even if my house, if I connect both of my coffer maker and the toaster on a single 15A outlet, the breaker will trig! This is why my modern house is equipped 4x separated 20A circuit in my kitchen!

So guys, could you please help me understand how you manage power in a middle size trailer with a 30A service? In the best of worlds, that size of trailer should be equipped with 50A service from factory, don't you think?

Thanks for lightning up my lantern 😉

[Jay_Coe]

It's a camper, not a house. As dozens of others have said, you have to manage it. The electricity may be free and the gas may cost money, but it's a pretty small expense to run a fridge and water heater on gas and it will save a lot of aggravation. We've got an old hunting camp we used for decades with a 1000w generator. No A/C obviously and gas fridge and range.

[maypo29]

We are in Florida so run the A/C a lot and had a similar issue. What I figured out is that the 20A and the 30A breakers are combined (which is common in a ton of travel trailers) into one single pole breaker. With the A/C constantly on the 20A side would get hot and since it was combined with the main 30A which is handling the total TT load it would trip. With the heat and frequent tripping the breakers wear out and can't handle the load.
To fix it I replaced the combined 20/30 with a single pole 30A for the main and added a single pole 20A for the A/C to one of the expansion slots on my board. The upgrade/fix cost me less then $30!

[Boomerweps]

I've found that LONG wire runs WILL cause voltage drops significant enough to cause amperage draw increases to trip circuit breakers. Turns out my last trailer parking spot ended up with a total of 195 feet of 12awg wire from the house breaker box through the garage to the TT. Dropped the voltage to about 105-107, best I could measure when testing. My garage large security light photo sensor went spastic went the TT AC & Fridge were on. During daylight with the fridge & AC on, I popped the 20 amp CB in the house when running a small hand vacuum cleaner in TT. Not going to park the TT there again! It'll still be about 75-80 feet of wire to the TT at the new spot.
I plan on copying another poster's modification by adding a separate 20 amp AC inlet on the side of the TT to run to a duplex or quad box of its own. Already ordered the AC inlet via Amazon for about $15 USD. So I can then plug in any heating element devices to there own source at campgrounds. I always run a seperate AC line to my outside under awning table, vice using the TT's outside convenience outlet, for electric fry pans and such.

[CA_Traveler]

pianotuna wrote:
Tell us more? Please?

CA Traveler wrote:
My DIY protector shut off the power and I ran to pull the power cord!

My power protector is a PI HW50C. By DYI I was referring to it's installation and location of the highly visible remote inside the rig. Power was shut down, error and voltage displayed. If all incoming power is lost then no display and the unit will be reset on power on.

[time2roll]

CA Traveler wrote:

azrving wrote:

30 amps isn't all bad. Ask the guys that lose their neutral on a 50 A system.

Believe it or not I had 160V from a 30A pedestal plug which was due to a bad neutral.


How? Well the open neutral was in the CG 120/240V distribution system. My DIY protector shut off the power and I ran to pull the power cord!

I have seen 140v on a 30 amp. I also assume a poor neutral in the campground. Happened in the evening in the middle of a show. Had to get up and turn on the inverter.

[pianotuna]

Tell us more? Please?

CA Traveler wrote:
My DIY protector shut off the power and I ran to pull the power cord!

[CA_Traveler]

deleted

[CA_Traveler]

azrving wrote:

30 amps isn't all bad. Ask the guys that lose their neutral on a 50 A system.

Believe it or not I had 160V from a 30A pedestal plug which was due to a bad neutral.


How? Well the open neutral was in the CG 120/240V distribution system. My DIY protector shut off the power and I ran to pull the power cord!

[ScottG]

With 30A, you can use two large power things at once.
AC & coffee maker
Coffee maker and toaster
AC and water heater
Etc.

Any two of these items is the limit. If you try to run more you will pop a breaker someplace.

[rbpru]

If you have 30 amps you use only 30 amps.

Our water heater was set at the factory to scald so it runs for 15 minute in the morning and coasts the rest of the day when we turn it off.

The Microwave does not play well with the toasted or hair dryer etc.

If we trip a breaker, we shut something off. For example the AC can wait 15 or 20 minutes till the water heater reheats the water etc.

[CA_Traveler]

George3037 wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
Lower production costs trumps almost everything else.

Example: My rig has diesel heat and yet I have the much larger propane tank for the refer and stove and the propane furnace that other models have. The propane tap for my outside BBQ uses as much propane as both the refer and stove. But I only need to fill the propane tank every 2 years when it's down to 1/2 tank. :B

Want to hear about my 18 120V plugs on one circuit?

Welcome to the RV world!

I also have 9 duplex outlets (18 places to plug in a 120V device). The key to the OP's FIL as mentioned is power management to use the outlets sparingly and not at the same time. Larger draw items should be on dedicated circuits. It doesn't help that his TT has multiple high draw devices on the same circuits.

OK correction - I have 18 duplex plugs or 36 places to plug.

Yes agree he has overloaded circuits and apparently I do as well. My circuit is on the inverter output and the first plug is a GFCI. Then the 17 additional plugs are connected to the GFCI output.

[pianotuna]

Hi vlopddap,

The water heater may be 1400 watts. They do not run continuously. Mine is a ten gallon. It takes 90 minutes before the first cycle, and there after, if no water is drawn, it will cycle on for about 15 minutes every four hours. My "guesstimate" for a 6 gallon would be 54 minutes to first cycle, and 9 minutes every four hours.

My fridge, on electric, is 325 watts.

My roof air starts at 1200 watts--but as the day heats up, I've seen it draw 1900 watts.

The microwave draws 1591 watts (what the heck were they thinking???).

Is the 30 amp breaker tripping when water heater and roof air are used together?

What is the voltage inside the RV just before the "trip"?

I do have a fancy dancy inverter/charger that does do load support--so I can run more than 30 amps for some time.

The complicated solution is to rewire for 50 amps (50 per leg) but with RV's designed to be "hard to service" that may not be as easy as pie. It exposes the RV to greater risks from a bad neutral, so an EMS surge device becomes fairly necessary.

What I have done is to "break out" the water heater, and converter so that I have two auxiliary shore power cords. I did this with a system of male and female plugs so I can switch back to OEM configuration in about ten seconds. The reason I chose the converter to be isolated, is, before I had the load support inverter/charger, when there was limited shore power I'd run just the converter--and plug the rest of the RV into a 2500 watt inverter. Of course, double conversion is wasteful, but it sure beat having an inaccessible shore power breaker blowing in the middle of the night.

What is of most concern to me, is voltage drop. Air conditioners DO NOT like it and there may be a slow accumulation of damage. I won't run my roof air below 107 volts. I solve low voltage with the use of an autoformer.

I do also have a portable tiny breaker box. When I have access to a 50 amp service, I have 30 amps on one leg and twin 20 amp outlets on the other.

[azrving]

Welcome to the RV world. That electric stuff is just a matter of juggling things. The bigger issue is hopefully the rig isn't water damaged.

30 amps isn't all bad. Ask the guys that lose their neutral on a 50 A system.

[Huntindog]

vlopddap wrote:

George3037 wrote:

Here's how my circuits are set up:
Microwave 15A
A/C 20A
Fridge 15A
GFI outlets 15A
120V lights 15A
Then there is a row of low volt fuses.

I would occasionally trip a 20A breaker at home when the TT was plugged into a 20A outside GFI. I've since installed a 30A dedicated circuit where I park at home.

No need to name the TT brand but I'd guess the mfg. chose poorly on how to wire it.

Well this sound like a good way to wire things up, but if you add every circuit together, it's more than 80A power capacity, so at some point if everything was running all together, you'll set the 30A service into fire!! (obviously I am kidding as the main 30A will trig).

I think the problem with the trailer is definitely the water heater... 12A continuous is a LOT of power and it's a non-sense on a 30A service. Otherwise I think I would need to shut everything down only to run the water heater...

I just don't understand the point of putting 80A of appliances in a trailer with a 30A service...

I have a very long list of things in this world that I don't see the point of.... 30 amp service isn't on it.

The options are 30 amp, which is readily available and cheap at campgrounds, or 50 amp (really 200) which is more expensive (because you are able to use more of the "free" electricity) and scarcer than 30 amp.

So TT can be set up for more available campsites at a lower cost, or fewer at a higher cost. Some TTs let you choose how it will be equipped. Most just install 30 amp. Many many thousands of us use 30 amps happily. You can join us, or go to 50 amps. As always, your money, your choice.