30A panel on large trailer... too small?

[vlopddap]

My father-in-law just purchased a slightly used 26 feet long travel trailer, with as well, a 30A electrical panel. He have a 13.5K roof AC and a electric/DSI water heater, just like most of travel trailer in this size. When he run both the water heater in electric mode and the A/C, the first circuit breaker are triggering after a few minutes... his trailer have a full outside kitchen, but if he run both of the electric toaster outside and the electrical coffee maker inside, the second circuit breaker are also triggering after a few minutes. I am owning myself a 8 feet pop-up camper so this is not the kind of concern I have on it.

I am not that much a RV specialist, however in everyday's life, I am a skilled computer/electronic technician so I surely have a good skill in general electricity and at this point I can't understand why the hell somebody put a 30A service on that size of travel trailer with that kind of equipment. It's a non-sense to me! I don't think his camper have any defect anywhere, I just think it's overloaded from the factory.

If I take the 6 gallon electric water heater, it surely have something like a 1000W+ heating element, which is over 8A continuous. Then apparently it's connected to the same circuit as the AC, which is a 13.5K compressor AC, so obviously it's a lot of power for a single 15A circuit!!! I also suspect that the RV electrical pane itself also drain some power for 12V inverter, battery charger, interior lights, etc. I don't have the exact schematic of the panel. But anyway...

Then, apparently all the 120V outlet are connected together inside and outside the camper (outside kitchen) on a single 15A circuit (the second one). So even if my house, if I connect both of my coffer maker and the toaster on a single 15A outlet, the breaker will trig! This is why my modern house is equipped 4x separated 20A circuit in my kitchen!

So guys, could you please help me understand how you manage power in a middle size trailer with a 30A service? In the best of worlds, that size of trailer should be equipped with 50A service from factory, don't you think?

Thanks for lightning up my lantern 😉

[hawkeye-08]

A number of solutions given already, but make sure your power is not too low (lower volts will cause increased amps for the devices. If you want to check and make sure all the connections are properly tight (loose connections cause heat which uses power which is not available to the devices)..

Perhaps change the water heater element to a lower wattage one as well.

In the two trailers we have had (still have one), I have never tripped any breakers.

[Mickeyfan0805]

We have a 35' Forest River with a 15k btu AC and 30a power. I make sure to turn off the AC when running the microwave, and I make sure we only run one microwave at a time (we have 2). We've never had an issue with the 30a being insufficient. Even the couple of times I left the AC on and started the microwave we were ok (probably would have blown if AC started the cycle at that point, but continuing running worked out).

I would agree with others that there is likely an issue beyong the 30a service limitations.

[troubledwaters]

You keep referring to the 30 Amp service but it's not the 30 Amp main that is switching off. Once you get that concept down then you can begin to figure out how to solve your problem. If the water heater and the AC are on the same circuit, that's a problem. Either rewire the breakers to do a better job of load sharing, or put the water heater on gas. It's that simple - but you got to get off the 30 Amp breaker bandwagon first.

[valhalla360]

If you don't want to manage your power usage, buy a much bigger, much more expensive 50amp rig and stay only in newer commercial parks.

30amp has been the standard at RV parks for decades. The manufacturers build to that standard (maybe 20yrs ago 50amp started to become an option but electrical systems don't get updated very often at campgrounds so most older parks have limited or no 50amp sites).

30amp means you can't run several high amperage devices simultaneously. May as well get over it or get out of RV'ing. Once you get used to it, it's second nature to check whats running before starting a high amp device.

PS: for continuous loads, you have to derate the 30amp down to 24amps.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
No different than in your house where most circuits are rated for 15 amp service ... ensure only one high draw device is running on any given 15 amp service.

vlopddap wrote:
Yes... but in my house I have a 400A service with 2 or more standalone 15A circuit in EACH ROOM... of in the kitchen where I have 4x 20A circuit for small appliances...

Lucky you, because many of us manage just fine with 100 amp service in our houses. 🙂

vlopddap wrote:
Plus... it's also easy to calculate power requirement when you are dealing with portable/removable devices connected to a 15A wall power outlet... but when you speak of built-in devices such as a recessed fridge, water heater, AC, etc. It's not that much easy to see where they are connected, plus, I don't know exactly how this trailer are wired, do you think that someone drunk puts all the built-in devices on a single circuit? :S

Making smart aleck assumptions about why this trailer is wired as it is and whining about it on a public forum isn't going to solve your problem in any way. :R Rather, the key is to start at the converter where the breaker panel is located, trace each circuit, and label each one so you know what you're dealing with. From there you may be able to rearrange some of the circuits, perhaps even add extra breakers to make the setup more to your liking. For those devices plugged into receptacles that may be hidden, such as the microwave oven, consider adding a readily accessible switch so power to the MW can be switched off if another device on the same circuit is going to be used. There are always solutions, it's not rocket science. 😉

[time2roll]

Yes 30 amp 120v supply is normal and customary for any RV with a single air conditioner. Yes if you use 120v heating (toaster, microwave, coffee) you can run into trouble with tripping breakers. I recommend you set the water and main fridge to propane only to reduce the issues. Otherwise you could pull more circuits to have some items on a dedicated connection however then you will start tripping the 30 amp main.

If you really must run it all at once you need to consider upgrading to 50 amp service with 12 kW available. Not technically difficult just tedious. Hard part is pulling new 6/3 romex from the cord entrance to the panel.

BTW 26' is considered medium sized at best.

[George3037]

CA Traveler wrote:
Lower production costs trumps almost everything else.

Example: My rig has diesel heat and yet I have the much larger propane tank for the refer and stove and the propane furnace that other models have. The propane tap for my outside BBQ uses as much propane as both the refer and stove. But I only need to fill the propane tank every 2 years when it's down to 1/2 tank. :B

Want to hear about my 18 120V plugs on one circuit?

Welcome to the RV world!

I also have 9 duplex outlets (18 places to plug in a 120V device). The key to the OP's FIL as mentioned is power management to use the outlets sparingly and not at the same time. Larger draw items should be on dedicated circuits. It doesn't help that his TT has multiple high draw devices on the same circuits.

[CA_Traveler]

Lower production costs trumps almost everything else.

Example: My rig has diesel heat and yet I have the much larger propane tank for the refer and stove and the propane furnace that other models have. The propane tap for my outside BBQ uses as much propane as both the refer and stove. But I only need to fill the propane tank every 2 years when it's down to 1/2 tank. :B

Want to hear about my 18 120V plugs on one circuit?

Welcome to the RV world!

[vlopddap]

George3037 wrote:

Here's how my circuits are set up:
Microwave 15A
A/C 20A
Fridge 15A
GFI outlets 15A
120V lights 15A
Then there is a row of low volt fuses.

I would occasionally trip a 20A breaker at home when the TT was plugged into a 20A outside GFI. I've since installed a 30A dedicated circuit where I park at home.

No need to name the TT brand but I'd guess the mfg. chose poorly on how to wire it.

Well this sound like a good way to wire things up, but if you add every circuit together, it's more than 80A power capacity, so at some point if everything was running all together, you'll set the 30A service into fire!! (obviously I am kidding as the main 30A will trig).

I think the problem with the trailer is definitely the water heater... 12A continuous is a LOT of power and it's a non-sense on a 30A service. Otherwise I think I would need to shut everything down only to run the water heater...

I just don't understand the point of putting 80A of appliances in a trailer with a 30A service...

[CA_Traveler]

vlopddap wrote:
Sure... I understand that, but my question is not exactly how to upgrade from 30A to 50A panel (and what are the consequences), but it's to understand how to manage all these equipments with only 30A of power for the entire trailer.

More important; I assume that if the trailer is equipped that way from the factory, it's because all things are supposed to work together? Isn't it?

No it's not and RVs have been that way for a long time. 50A cost more. A load shedding device so that the breakers don't trip cost more.

Bottom line is he has to do his own power management. He can use a second cord for an appliance when the pedestal plug is available. And then there are various ways that the trailer can be modified and adapted to 50A. It's just part of the price for more electrical consumption and the lower cost 30A.

[Lynnmor]

vlopddap wrote:


Plus... it's also easy to calculate power requirement when you are dealing with portable/removable devices connected to a 15A wall power outlet... but when you speak of built-in devices such as a recessed fridge, water heater, AC, etc. It's not that much easy to see where they are connected, plus, I don't know exactly how this trailer are wired, do you think that someone drunk puts all the built-in devices on a single circuit? :S

Your trailer was likely built in Amish country where the workers have no electricity in their houses. :B

[vlopddap]

Huntindog wrote:
Power management is part of RVing.

Run the WH and fridge on gas. They don't use much gas and it will make a difference.

This is what his doing for the moment. However since the trailer is stationary, electricity is free, but gas is not. That's the point. I think it's a shame to have a electric water heater but don't use it.

[Lynnmor]

vlopddap wrote:


Sure... I understand that, but my question is not exactly how to upgrade from 30A to 50A panel (and what are the consequences), but it's to understand how to manage all these equipments with only 30A of power for the entire trailer.

More important; I assume that if the trailer is equipped that way from the factory, it's because all things are supposed to work together? Isn't it?

Run the fridge and water heater on propane. Cook with the gas stove. Heat with the gas furnace. Toast in a pan, dry hair with the breeze. What can I say, cut your electricity usage.

[Huntindog]

Power management is part of RVing.

Run the WH and fridge on gas. They don't use much gas and it will make a difference.

[George3037]

vlopddap wrote:
My father-in-law just purchased a slightly used 26 feet long travel trailer, with as well, a 30A electrical panel. He have a 13.5K roof AC and a electric/DSI water heater, just like most of travel trailer in this size. When he run both the water heater in electric mode and the A/C, the first circuit breaker are triggering after a few minutes... his trailer have a full outside kitchen, but if he run both of the electric toaster outside and the electrical coffee maker inside, the second circuit breaker are also triggering after a few minutes. I am owning myself a 8 feet pop-up camper so this is not the kind of concern I have on it.

I am not that much a RV specialist, however in everyday's life, I am a skilled computer/electronic technician so I surely have a good skill in general electricity and at this point I can't understand why the hell somebody put a 30A service on that size of travel trailer with that kind of equipment. It's a non-sense to me! I don't think his camper have any defect anywhere, I just think it's overloaded from the factory.

If I take the 6 gallon electric water heater, it surely have something like a 1000W+ heating element, which is over 8A continuous. Then apparently it's connected to the same circuit as the AC, which is a 13.5K compressor AC, so obviously it's a lot of power for a single 15A circuit!!! I also suspect that the RV electrical pane itself also drain some power for 12V inverter, battery charger, interior lights, etc. I don't have the exact schematic of the panel. But anyway...

Then, apparently all the 120V outlet are connected together inside and outside the camper (outside kitchen) on a single 15A circuit (the second one). So even if my house, if I connect both of my coffer maker and the toaster on a single 15A outlet, the breaker will trig! This is why my modern house is equipped 4x separated 20A circuit in my kitchen!

So guys, could you please help me understand how you manage power in a middle size trailer with a 30A service? In the best of worlds, that size of trailer should be equipped with 50A service from factory, don't you think?

Thanks for lightning up my lantern 😉

I have a 32' TT (larger than your FIL's)and is wired with a 30A plug. My 13.5K A/C is and should be on its own 20A breaker, not a 15A and not with the HW heater which should have a separate circuit. It was probably assumed by the TT mfg. that if the owner is using the outside kitchen those outlets may be on the same circuit as some inside ones. The thought being you can't be in two places at the same time using multiple devices which may overload the circuit.

Here's how my circuits are set up:
Microwave 15A
A/C 20A
Fridge 15A
GFI outlets 15A
120V lights 15A
Then there is a row of low volt fuses.

I would occasionally trip a 20A breaker at home when the TT was plugged into a 20A outside GFI. I've since installed a 30A dedicated circuit where I park at home.

No need to name the TT brand but I'd guess the mfg. chose poorly on how to wire it.