A Little Help With Weights

[wjlapier]

We purchased a Host Everest recently. We figured we would need a newer duality so we traded in our 2015 GMC short bed 3500 for a 2019 Chevy dually. Here are some numbers I have and am hoping for clarification for my piece of mind haha…

GVWR—13000
Curb Weight full tank—8400 ( Just weighed today after fill up )
GM Truck Camper Rating ( sticker in glovebox )—3900
Host Everest As Equipped—4350 ( Host Sticker )

Am I missing anything?

I assume we gain back some GVWR with no passengers in rear seat.

We won’t travel with water in the camper until we are close to our camping destination.

Question is, what is our true payload weight less mine and my wife’s weight. And her duffle bag lol! For now we are carefully considering our usual camping gear while we load up.

Thanks a lot.

[BFL13]

mbloof and the Old 97? Not for me thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ggBWk-Q_NY

[mbloof]

jimh406 wrote:

mbloof wrote:
- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

It's clear that the 14K GVWR on the pickup models compared to chassis models is a made up number. My 2010 F450 has a 14,500 GVWR. I like the truck, but I don't believe that newer lighter trucks are less capable. 😉

My F450 is one with 19.5s. They had more room for larger brakes with the exception of a few years that had 17s. Fwiw, I've read here that the rear diffs are the same on F350 DRW and F450s for a few years. That would be something else to check. The chassis cabs have the same diffs as far as I know with a lot higher GVWR.

That being said, I have no doubt my diesel F450 with 4.30s is very capable and could carry any truck camper or pull any fiver with ease. I probably could even carry a lighter popup. 😄

Seriously though, I bought it used a few years ago just in case I ever wanted a giant fiver. I've paid in fuel costs, but it stops with the TC on probably about as fast as my Mustang GT. The brakes make my wife extremely confident. There was one panic stop with her driving that convinced her that the truck is totally awesome. She never had that feeling with the previous truck.

Actually for a number of years the F450 had a Dana110, I'm under the impression that for a few years it had a 16K GVWR as well.

The problem that many of us have with GVWR is that it is not based on engineering. I pity the folks that live in jurisdictions where it is important.


- Mark0.

[BFL13]

We all have our own attitudes as to what is "safe" for ourselves. It might mean going over what GM says is safe if it is just you in the GM truck.

No way am I going to take "some guy on the internet" 's advice as to what is safe, if it is different from what GM says is safe, for my wife and kids in the GM truck!

I will make up my own mind about what is "safe" for my own wife and kids, thank you very much! 😞

I gather the OP is like-minded.

[jimh406]

mbloof wrote:
- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

It's clear that the 14K GVWR on the pickup models compared to chassis models is a made up number. My 2010 F450 has a 14,500 GVWR. I like the truck, but I don't believe that newer lighter trucks are less capable. 😉

My F450 is one with 19.5s. They had more room for larger brakes with the exception of a few years that had 17s. Fwiw, I've read here that the rear diffs are the same on F350 DRW and F450s for a few years. That would be something else to check. The chassis cabs have the same diffs as far as I know with a lot higher GVWR.

That being said, I have no doubt my diesel F450 with 4.30s is very capable and could carry any truck camper or pull any fiver with ease. I probably could even carry a lighter popup. 😄

Seriously though, I bought it used a few years ago just in case I ever wanted a giant fiver. I've paid in fuel costs, but it stops with the TC on probably about as fast as my Mustang GT. The brakes make my wife extremely confident. There was one panic stop with her driving that convinced her that the truck is totally awesome. She never had that feeling with the previous truck.

[mbloof]

Grit dog wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Here is what I find confusing. It says leave your foot down and do not pump the brakes and the ABS will grab and release as required, but that is for coming to a stop. It does not seem to cover what happens on a long steep downhill run for keeping the brakes from overheating. Or does it?

https://www.icbc.com/partners/driver-training/Documents/ts274w.pdf

It's statements and questions like this that sometimes make me want to support those who just blatantly recommend more vehicle than needed for the job.
In other words, it's 2022 and if you don't even conceptually understand how ABS works and could somehow conceive that it will help a person who is riding their brakes down a hill, then you're grossly uninformed. Which is scary considering you drive a RV in the mountains!

Actually the whole 'more truck then what is needed' all depends on where one lives and travels. Lets face it, different parts of North America have different regulations.

While discussing and attempting to debunk the whole weight thing on another forum we got this information for BC:

"Here are two different documents that outline
GVWR maximums in BC, specifically.

Document #1

Document #2"

The above comes with the mention of two popular tales:

The first being that they regularly have 'weight road blocks' and weigh everyone. While its rather unlikely to happen in most/all USA (they can't do roadblocks for drunks on NewYears Eve for example). No evidence of this actually happening.

The second is that at any accident it is standard practice to weigh all the vehicles involved and drop coverage on anyone that is over their GVWR. (no, I've not seen a actual insurance policy with this)

While I'm told that Alberta cares about the GAWR I have not seen a actual document to support that.

Where I live we have the following: https://www.oregon.gov/odot/MCT/Documents/weight_limits.pdf

I don't have any specifics on GM or Dodge but when it comes to Ford:
- F250/350SRW same axle (9700lbs) and breaks+pads

- F350DRW Dana80 (11K lbs), slightly larger master cylinder then above but the same rotors and breaks+pads as 250/350 SRW

- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

While many of us only care what the actual hardware is capable of and will factor in (or not!) our own personal margin of 'safety' I recall a conversation I had with a commercial truck driving friend (+50yrs experience and runs his own trucking company and builds/plays with race cars as a hobby) that he and any of his drivers would/could refuse to haul a load that had <1000lbs margin of safety per tire. (he was rather shocked that I clocked +40K miles with just a few 100lbs margin!)

Lets face it, different people have different ideas/limits to what they consider 'safe'.


- Mark0

[wjlapier]

Quoted wrong person.

I too get a slight kick out of folks riding their brakes down mountain passes.

One steep downhill I drive on to go fishing I drop it in manual and shift to 2. Coast most of the way down. This same area we will take the camper often since it’s about 30 minutes away.

[wjlapier]

mkirsch wrote:

wjlapier wrote:
Just curious, could you use tow mode for going down a steep grade or exhaust brakes?

I use it with an EMPTY truck!

With nothing pushing the truck I just get it to the speed I want and let it coast. Unless the hill is EXTREME, the truck cruises right down the hill at whatever speed I chose at the top. Never have to touch the brakes. It always makes me giggle, watching the folks in front of me stab on their brakes every 2 seconds.

Always hit the tow haul button when we took our TT out. From and to storage which was nearby not so much. Exhaust brakes going down a pass mainly on I-90 in Montana and Rogers Pass between Missoula and the turn to Augusta.

[mkirsch]

wjlapier wrote:
Just curious, could you use tow mode for going down a steep grade or exhaust brakes?

I use it with an EMPTY truck!

With nothing pushing the truck I just get it to the speed I want and let it coast. Unless the hill is EXTREME, the truck cruises right down the hill at whatever speed I chose at the top. Never have to touch the brakes. It always makes me giggle, watching the folks in front of me stab on their brakes every 2 seconds.

[Grit_dog]

wjlapier wrote:
Just curious, could you use tow mode for going down a steep grade or exhaust brakes?

Can you? Yes
Do you NEED to? Not really. Service brakes will take care of your truck and camper without issue.

Is it really nice and what those features are designed for? Yup 100%, 10-4, roger, over n out!

Guess I'll assume your previous truck, you never touched those buttons?
I basically hit tow/haul and the exhaust brake button if doing much more than going to the corner store for a 12 pack!

[BFL13]

wjlapier wrote:
Just curious, could you use tow mode for going down a steep grade or exhaust brakes?

I see this about that truck:

"The 2019 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 HD uses a six-speed automatic transmission with tow/haul mode and Auto Grade Braking to reduce the amount of conventional braking needed while towing or driving downhill."

My 2003 does not have Auto Grade Braking so can't say if it is useful.

OK more confusion! It is mixed up with Tow/Haul but you have to read all this in detail. meanwhile it says to activate it you need to leave your foot down---so that gets mixed up with my earlier question about braking (now cleared up, thanks all! ) except for Auto Grade Braking maybe. 😞

"For grade braking to activate it requires the driver to apply steady brake pedal pressure to maintain desired speed while driving on a downhill grade. The vehicle’s modules monitor the amount of brake pedal apply, vehicle deceleration rates, and other factors to determine if normal mode powertrain grade braking is necessary"

/www.brakeandfrontend.com/gm-tech-tip-grade-braking-in-normal-mode/#:~:text=Normal%20mode%20powertra...

[wjlapier]

Just curious, could you use tow mode for going down a steep grade or exhaust brakes?

[Grit_dog]

notsobigjoe wrote:


Do the newer dually's have disc brakes in the rear? My 1996 are drums as well as my 2000 Silverado some years back. Drums are great for riding the brakes but discs are way better at stopping.

All of them do for about the last 20 years giver take.

[Grit_dog]

BFL13 wrote:
Some confusion developing here. I am just curious how things work with trucks, but the OP wants to know if he is "safe" with his set-up. He will get weighed and then more will be known about that.

It turns out that a DRW has stronger brakes than a SRW. Eg the bigger master cylinder mentioned above. Parts manuals could give more specs for the rest of the braking systems. I did find this too:

"With four back wheels instead of two, and a stronger rear axle, a dually truck can handle a larger amount of payload weight and offer more .....Most dually trucks are also equipped with bigger, stronger brakes for additional stopping power, as well as heavy-duty shocks and springs for greater capability to tread uneven terrain and rough driving surfaces"

I still don't see why braking specs have anything to do with axle weight ratings. I see that they would make the brakes stronger if the truck is expected to carry more weight. I would think they would use the GVWR for that. Whatever, the OP has a DRW so all he wants to know is how much "margin" does he have when overweight for braking while going down a mountain.


I disagree with telling the OP he can ignore GVWR and just worry about RAWR, but nobody is going to change anybody's mind about that, so let's all just agree to disagree.


On the question of using cab weight if you go over cargo weight rating, it is strange that the same exact cargo box and frame has different CWR if the truck is Diesel or gas. The Diesel engine weighs more so the truck has less payload out of its same GVWR. But the gas version has more CWR. So there they use front end weight to add to cargo weight. Using the little bit of cab weight (750 bs eg) for some extra cargo weight does not seem so bad then. So why do they even have a CWR instead of just a total payload rating?



https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-a-dually-truck

Where to start...

OP will know more about what? Already know about what it weighs. I do anyway. Maybe you don't, because you aren't well informed and choose not to trust those who are.

That Ford quoted above has a larger master cyl with a dually? Great. You're applying something specific to one vehicle to form a theory about another completely different vehicle. Can say matter of factly that is not the case with all srw vs dually brake systems.

Your quote is generic clickbait garbage. Auto advice from JD Power?? LOL!

Braking spec vs axle weight rating? Can't think how to explain that on in terms you'd understand. But can say your thinking that they're not related is contradictory to what you posted above it.

YOU disagree, because YOU don't understand. Given your lack of knowledge, more listening and less theories will be to your personal benefit and grow your knowledge.

And the last paragraph you wrote.....I rest my case.

[notsobigjoe]

mkirsch wrote:
ABS is anti-lock braking system. It only applies when it senses wheel lockup, aka skid.

Otherwise the brakes work like brakes. IF you are holding the brakes while descending a long grade, they will get hot and fade, just like non-ABS brakes.

DRW trucks still don't have 4 rotors and calipers on the rear axles.

Do the newer dually's have disc brakes in the rear? My 1996 are drums as well as my 2000 Silverado some years back. Drums are great for riding the brakes but discs are way better at stopping.

[Grit_dog]

BFL13 wrote:
Here is what I find confusing. It says leave your foot down and do not pump the brakes and the ABS will grab and release as required, but that is for coming to a stop. It does not seem to cover what happens on a long steep downhill run for keeping the brakes from overheating. Or does it?

https://www.icbc.com/partners/driver-training/Documents/ts274w.pdf

It's statements and questions like this that sometimes make me want to support those who just blatantly recommend more vehicle than needed for the job.
In other words, it's 2022 and if you don't even conceptually understand how ABS works and could somehow conceive that it will help a person who is riding their brakes down a hill, then you're grossly uninformed. Which is scary considering you drive a RV in the mountains!