Advice on fine tuning my wdh set up w/scale results

[Idaho33]

First off let me say this is my first post on this board but I have been lurking it for a couple of years. I have gone from a complete newb to having a fair understanding of TT/TV WDH dynamics thanks to the information posted here. This site truly is a wealth of knowledge, which is why I figured I would share my experience and hopefully get some insight on my current set up. This may get a little long so bear with me.

In winter 2011 my wife and I started to look at getting some type of towable RV. There are tons of great camping spots in Idaho but the spring and fall can tend to be chilly so it made the camping season shorter than what we were used to in California, and we also had a two year old daughter to consider. Our vehicles were an 08 Nissan Xterra 4x4 and an 04 Mazda B4000 4x4 (ford ranger).

We initially started looking at used pop ups (which in hindsight is where the search should have stayed given the TV's) but most didn't have very many amenities like A/C and an actual flushing toilet. I then discovered HTT's and liked the extra space and amenities but started having concerns about the weight. There were some very small ones but my wife felt they were too small and they were actually as expensive as bigger trailers. I decided that if we were going to go that big I would prefer a hard side for several reasons including not worrying about a bear getting you in your sleep through the tent (I love the outdoors but bears have always freaked me out).

So in spring 2012 we ended up purchasing our first trailer. A brand new keystone Springdale 189fl. An "18" foot bunkhouse. It was a great price and had everything we wanted. I told my wife I felt it was too big but she didn't want to hear any of that and the salesman agreed. The Xterra really did have a powerful engine and seating for three so it was the anticipated TV. It had a rating of 500lbs tongue/5000lbs trailer. At this point I knew nothing of GVWR and GCVWR. The trailer had a published dry weight of only 4170lbs and tongue weight of 455lbs and an overall length of 23'7" and GVWR of 5955lbs. The salesman said the Xterra could easily pull it. In fact I looked around at several dealerships and they were all the same. They said that as long as the dry weight was under 5000lbs I was good to go.

I got the X all ready to tow with LT tires, add a leaf, 7 pin wiring harness, aftermarket hitch, prodigy break controller, and some little suction cup tow mirrors. I did at least also insist that they throw in a WDH and friction sway control with the deal (it was they best they would do). I had looked on a lot of Xterra forums and saw pictures of people towing all manner of things including 30' hard sides and they all boasted about how the X was awesome and the tow ratings are way lower than they should be. I figured I would be OK as long as I didn't fill the water tank and packed light. Also my B4000 actually had a slightly higher tow rating and longer wheel base so I figured I could use that if I had too. BOY WAS I WRONG!!!!!

As soon as I took delivery and drove away from the RV dealership I knew I had made a mistake. That trailer felt like it owned the Xterra. I didn't even want to get on the freeway so I took surface streets the whole way. I did do one smart thing (because I had been reading this board) and ran it over a CAT scale on the way home. I don't have the slip any more but I was actually BARELY within GVWR and GCVWR. But that was by myself, completely empty, and not even a full tank of fuel. If I recall that trailer was more like 4700lbs dry and the hitch was over 500lbs with the WDH hooked up.

I got home and told my wife that the trailer was nice but we could NOT tow this thing camping. The next day I traded in my paid off B4000 (with only 50 something thousand miles) straight across for a 2000 "full-sized" truck with 200,000 miles. It was a Silverado EC 1500 Z71 w/ 5.3 V-8 and I think 3:43 gears. I didn't really know squat about trucks at the time either (I thought I did) and the salesman told me the truck was rated to tow about 9000lbs. I realized later that was NOT TRUE, it was actually rated for 7500lbs.

We pretty much exclusively dry camp so ready to go we are full of water, fire wood, generator, the works. That 1500 sagged under the weight, bounced pretty much like the Xterra did with an empty trailer, and was kind of white knuckle driving on the freeway when big rigs would pass me cause I was usually driving slower than they were. My biggest problem was that the thing would struggle and nearly overheat when pulling the mountain grades that we have here out west. Up Up in the mountains is usually our mantra when headed out camping. I was always worried that the tired 5.3 with 200,000 miles (which is impressive btw)would leave me and my family stranded on a mountain pass. I never did run it over a scale but the set up felt to be a bit much for the truck. I got rid of it the next year.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS DON'T EVER LISTEN TO SALESMEN!! EVER. NOT FOR TRAILERS OR FOR TRUCKS.

I then got an awesome 3/4 ton gasser. A black 2008 crew cab 4x4 Silverado 2500 HD w/ 6.0. Yeah baby! That thing towed great and was a sweet looking truck. Way more capacity than I needed in terms of tow rating and payload and even had a very nice integrated break controller. It was worry free towing. I never took it to a scale cause I didn't care. The downside, other than the initial price, was the fuel economy. I joked after I got it that the thing hated the planet earth. it was funny at first but I had to drive the thing back and forth to work 50 mile round trip and getting 13-14 mpg's combined got old. I decided that my trailer (5955 gvwr) didn't really warrant a 3/4 ton that I had to use as a daily driver. So I started looking for a capable (newer) 1/2 ton to do the job. I loved this truck but the monthly payments and gas bill were not fiscally responsible for towing a 24' trailer a dozen times a year.

Fast forward to present time and I now have a 2011 F150 screw. It has the 5.0 V-8, factory tow package, integrated break controller, 3:73 gears, and 157"WB. It is also, in my opinion, a very nice truck. It is actually rated to tow 9100lbs and has a GCVWR of 15100lbs. It gets me 16-17mpgs driving back and forth to work and that is acceptable to me. However, I knew beforehand that the weak spot of any 1/2 ton is payload so I finally towed with it for the first time last week and my first stop was a CAT scale so I could see what's what. My F150 is the 7350lb GVWR, it does not have the HD payload or max tow option. I would like some input on the results to see if I have my WDH set up properly and if my TW is where it should be. The trip was only about 100 miles round trip but was a mix of freeway, mountain grades, and dirt roads. It honestly towed great. it was very stable and had plenty of power. I had the WDH adjusted where the whole rig was pretty much within 1/8" of being completely level loaded.

For these weights we were loaded up and on our way camping. This is my wife, daughter, and I in the truck. Full tank of fuel (36 gal worth). In the bed is more than enough firewood for 3 days, a generator, a small BBQ and some other misc light weight items. The trailer is basically packed to the gills. Full fresh water tank (that is forward of the axles), 2 brand new 6v golf cart batteries and 2 full propane tanks on the tongue. Full of more than enough food, clothing, games for the now almost 5 yr old daughter, etc.. Basically everything we could need.


1st weight is truck only (with occupants, stuff in bed, full fuel, WD hitch head in receiver).

Steer Axle = 3700lb
Drive axle = 3040lb
Trailer Axle = 0lb
Gross Weight = 6740lb

2nd pass is truck + trailer without WD bars engaged.

Steer Axle = 3420lb
Drive axle = 4100lb
Trailer Axle = 4760lb
Gross Weight = 12280lb

3rd pass is truck + trailer with WD bars engaged.

Steer Axle = 3660lb
Drive axle = 3660lb
Trailer Axle = 4920lb
Gross Weight = 12240lb


My observations are that the trailer weighs 5500lbs, the tongue weight is 780lbs = 14.2%. And I am at a GVW on the truck of 7320lbs, only 30lbs under the GVWR of 7350lbs. Also, that the WDH did in fact transfer 160lbs of tongue weight back to the trailer.


My questions are does it appear that I have the proper amount of tension on the bars? I'm not sure how I pulled it off but is having exactly the same weight on front and rear axles ideal (it drove very nice)? Also, would it be prudent to try and load the trailer in a way to reduce the tongue weight slightly (say to 13%) since I am close to my GVWR on the truck?

I don't anticipate "needing" much more in the truck, but bicycles or a canoe may be wanted for future trips. I expected the payload limitation so I am just trying to fine tune things. For this trip I was within every single possible rating. From tires, to axles, GCVWR, Truck GVWR, Trailer GVWR...etc. It seems like a perfect fit.

The other morale of the story for people like myself two years ago is this. MY 1/2 TON PICKUP is pretty much maxed out on payload when towing a 24' Travel Trailer ready to camp. When shopping always anticipate that the trailer will be nearly as heavy as the trailer's GVWR when loaded and that the TW will approach 15%. And if I forgot to mention it earlier, NEVER TRUST A SALESMAN FOR TOWING ADVICE! I bought a trailer and am now on my fourth TV trying to find a perfect fit.

[Idaho33]

fla-gypsy wrote:
Congratulations on doing your homework and getting it right! As you noted you are very close to the trucks GVWR so be mindful of adding weight in any form. If you add something, get rid of something of equal weight. be sure to tell the DW she can't gain any weight either. Well, maybe you better hold off on the last idea for now. LOL

Luckily she is pretty light but I don't think that comment would go over too well for me. I could just imagine getting ready to leave for a trip and saying "babe, could you take one piece of firewood out of the back for me. Why? Because you look like you gained a couple pounds."

[Idaho33]

Thanks. And I fully agree with you. I don't want the tongue to be light. I'm thinking about aiming for a slight reduction. maybe 60 pounds or so, just enough to give me some cushion on what I put in the bed.

one of my other concerns is that Ford recommends taking out only 1/2 of the front end rise with the WDH. It didn't look right to me and seemed to be sagging too much in the rear so I cranked it up one more link (still leaving 5 links between bars and hook point). It took almost all of the front end rise out and was almost completely level with the rear (1/8" higher in front, the rear still settled 1 3/4" to get there). It looked good and towed solid so that is how I weighed it.

One other thing that I was never able to find an answer to is should you set up your WDH and take your measurements with the bed of the truck full or empty? Like I said I carry a generator and a fair amount of fire wood, it makes a difference. For my measurements I used an empty truck for the before. My after measurements were with trailer + stuff in the bed. Most WDH set up posts I have read do not mention the amount of stuff in the bed or how to figure it into your set up procedure.

[fla-gypsy]

Congratulations on doing your homework and getting it right! As you noted you are very close to the trucks GVWR so be mindful of adding weight in any form. If you add something, get rid of something of equal weight. be sure to tell the DW she can't gain any weight either. Well, maybe you better hold off on the last idea for now. LOL

[dockmasterdave]

Sounds like you have done your homework. The numbers sound good to me. From my understanding, too light of a tongue weight is worse than a little heavy. I'm sure some will come along with considerably more knowledge than mine, but, sounds good to me. I'll wait and watch the other replies. Good luck and happy camping.