Anybody towing with a late model gasser?

[daily_double]

I just had to shell out a little over 10K to fix the high pressure fuel pump on my 2012 Ford diesel. 37k miles on it and the dealer said "sorry" ford won't pay. After some discussion on this subject he said that about all you can do is buy your fuel at a truck stop (flying J ,Pilot etc) and hope you don't get any bad fuel. I'm about ready to try to find a gasser that will tow a 13k # fifth wheel up over the mountains . Is there any such thing made now?

[ib516]

BurbMan wrote:
Here's what the big block looked like compared to the Duramax in 2001. Would be interested to see a similar comparison on the new Ram 6.4 hemi and the Cummins.

Agreed. I have searched high and low and can't find an image of the 6.4L hp/tq curves anywhere on the net.

[transamz9]

Jarlaxle wrote:

ib516 wrote:
From the 2010 HD Shootout at Pickuptrucks.com:

2010 Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi/5 speed auto/4.10 with 383hp/400tq:
10k trailer tow
0-30 level ground 7.7 sec
0-60 level ground 21.0 sec
1/4 mile 23.3 sec @ 64 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 33.96 sec @ 45 mph peak speed


2010 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins/6 speed auto/3.73 with 350hp/650tq:
same 10k trailer
0-30 level ground 7.0 sec
0-60 level ground 20.9 sec
1/4 mile 23.0 sec @ 63 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 31.65 sec @ 50 mph peak speed

The differences aren't exactly earth shattering.

I realize this info is from 2010, but it's a good illustration where they were tested head to head in the same conditions. It also isn't the 385hp/850tq/Aisin/4.10 diesel tow monster you can get today, but in the gas vs diesel discussion, the gas engines hold their own, though they certainly don't out perform the diesels.

It's also not the gas 6.4/8-speed tow monster that you can get today!

The 6.4 does not come with an 8 speed.

The performance of the gas is not the killer for me.They perform fine. With the capacities of these trucks now days and I often use those capacities and then some, you will need most of the hp that the truck is capable of producing and I'd rather have it at 2500-3000 instead of 5000.

[AlBeGone]

fla-gypsy wrote:
My 2009 6.8L does a real nice job

X2 🙂

[kw_00]

With my old 6.0 the only time that I saw temps in the range that you are reporting was when the TC was going out... Never had an issue with the truck pulling 10k through Georgia area. To me it's about perception, engine running at 3-4k rpm is not screaming.... People always freak and think that the poor little engine is screaming... Lol...It's not, and it's not going to explode or drop a piston along the way. Running at that rpm is normal when it needs the TQ. Simple. So OP there are several running gas trucks pulling campers out here. Perception seems to be the biggest mind block that people have when it comes to pulling campers. I have stated that I have pulled campers with both. It's really up to what your willing to spend. For me...newer diesel, a big negative, why? All the potential cost and emissions that are present. Open the hood to a new diesel, and tell me how easy that engine will be in working on it, or how cheap it will be.... Older diesels are great without the emissions but.... Higher miles means more truck repairs. So the choice is urs, there are several options, if u go gas then go with the 4:10 gear, just a personal preference. New offerings of gas engines are looking really good. Despite GM keeping the 6.0 around for a while, I still like mine and don't complain about pulling the wieght. It really does well, its obviously a good engine to keep around for GM since it's darn near bullet proof. Anyway get what you want, but don't look past the newer gas choices if u want to stay simple and reliable. Btw just got back from fort wilderness and had the same conversation with a fellow camper.... Who is now switching back to gas due to some issues on his current truck. Ain't saying what brand or engine, no need to start another thread war ( probably another member here). Look at my sig, this is what I currently own and will be keeping for a long time. Previously had been a DMax and cummins not listed yet. Also to add the new dodge 6.4 is looking really good, should put a smile on a few faces around here. Good luck on your search.

[BurbMan]

Here's what the big block looked like compared to the Duramax in 2001. Would be interested to see a similar comparison on the new Ram 6.4 hemi and the Cummins.

The L18 on the left is the 8.1L gas and the Duramax LB7 is on the right.



Sac sorry to hear your old 6.0 is not up to the task, i never see trans temps over 200 with our 9000 lb TT. The biggest thing helping the gas truck today is the new 6 speed transmissions. Elight just took his TT from Louisville down to Myrtle Beach and said his new 6.4 had it and then some.

Nothing wrong with that old 1994 and it was sure better than the gassers in 1994 but different story today.

[Jarlaxle]

ib516 wrote:
From the 2010 HD Shootout at Pickuptrucks.com:

2010 Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi/5 speed auto/4.10 with 383hp/400tq:
10k trailer tow
0-30 level ground 7.7 sec
0-60 level ground 21.0 sec
1/4 mile 23.3 sec @ 64 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 33.96 sec @ 45 mph peak speed


2010 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins/6 speed auto/3.73 with 350hp/650tq:
same 10k trailer
0-30 level ground 7.0 sec
0-60 level ground 20.9 sec
1/4 mile 23.0 sec @ 63 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 31.65 sec @ 50 mph peak speed

The differences aren't exactly earth shattering.

I realize this info is from 2010, but it's a good illustration where they were tested head to head in the same conditions. It also isn't the 385hp/850tq/Aisin/4.10 diesel tow monster you can get today, but in the gas vs diesel discussion, the gas engines hold their own, though they certainly don't out perform the diesels.

It's also not the gas 6.4/8-speed tow monster that you can get today!

[Jarlaxle]

FishOnOne wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Those of us who tow understand horsepower and torque. We also understand we don't wish to pay $60,000.00 for a new Ford/Chrysler diesel to get to our destination a little faster, and have a chance of a $10,000.00 repair.

I understand the ENTIRE PICTURE.

You do understand that Dodge does not use the CP4 pump don't you? If you do, why do you say that there is a chance of a $10,000 repair?
:h

How about go pump some gasoline into that system with a CP3 and give us a full report! Oh and try to get anyone to cover that with warranty.

We also witnessed a member here who had a Duramax with a CP3 system that was taken out with water and the warranty was voided.

I understand.... It happens :W

Seen that...someone DID, in fact, put gas in a truck with a Cummins (2005 CR 5.9). Truck was towed to a shop, fuel system cleaned out, filled with diesel fuel & a bottle of Power Service, and is in service with no ill effects.

[Jarlaxle]

sacmarata wrote:
More of the exception being the norm here. Most modern day diesels in 3/4 applications are 320hp+. So the HP numbers game isnt as stacked as you make it out to be and actually your illustrations do prove the point that gassers have to rely on high hp to overcome the lower torque produced by the shorter stroke and other contributing variables of gas engines. Lower torque = less time in lockup and less time in lockup = decreased mpg and increased wear.

This is the life of a gasser. Modern techno is getting there with gassers and the gubment is dead set on ensuring diesel fails due to exhaustive restrictions, but for now the dominant force for towing is diesel by a mile. Go buy that $40,000 gasser and watch me roll on by in my old mechanically controlled 12 valve...smiling cos Im safer, faster, and getting better mileage.

lets not forget...total cost of ownership is higher in gas than it is diesel as well.

Go to any cattle farm that has an ounce of credibility and ask em what they tow with. Then give em your torque HP speach and see if they exchange their fleet of diesels for gas.

Lately, I have seen plenty of trucks with "farm" plates with gas power. Many companies are getting away from diesels...even seen gas-power ambulances.

[Jarlaxle]

sacmarata wrote:
Comparing a gas truck to diesel is apples to orangutans.
Sure theres those that say "my gasser pulls my 8,000lb trailer just fine."
In my experience those are the ones afraid to own a diesel because of the undo stigma put on diesels from common problems of the old technogy Fords and Chevys.
Almost any gas truck will pull 8,000 lbs. Heck I used to pull an old 23' trihull beast of a boat with my Nissan 4 cylinder. Yes...it pulled it just fine...until I learned what just fine really meant that is. I upgraded to a 4.0 Ranger. WHOA boy. I could almost keep up with fraffic on the flats. This was livin!
Well, a few years later I got the 12 valve and I immediatelyI felt stupid telling everyone my Ranger was the bees knees all those years. It wasn't! It pulled the thing, sure! But did it keep up with traffic? No! Did I go through a clutch prematurely yes!
I know comparing a Ranger to a modern v8 gasser isnt the same but the illustration wasnt to compare the two but to show how one can talk themselves into believing something is "just fine" when it's not.

How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.

A 30-valve Ford V10 will suck the doors off your truck on any long grade! 362HP beats 215HP...this is basic physics!

Note: a local towing company has a gas repo truck...and that truck is quicker up hills than the 7.3 PSD trucks! Why? Because it has more horsepower!

The gasser did wear out, though...it needed a motor a while back. It only had 553,000 miles!

[Jarlaxle]

Kampfirekid wrote:
My bumper pull runs 10k. I am experiencing issues with my 6.7L now and taking mine in next week. Although mine runs fine and hopefully isn't fuel related, it will be gone if there are any hints at warranty items not covered. If I could try a 6.2L with 3.73's with my trailer for a spell, I'd maybe trade tomorrow. I love the endless power of the smoker, but for a daily driver, I'm done with being to the next light first. I want dependability and towing 10k about 12x from April 15th through October 15th I can't fathom warrants a diesel anymore.

I would suggest 4.10 or 4.30 axle gears for that much weight.

[Jarlaxle]

Lantley wrote:

CKNSLS wrote:
I'm going to bookmark this discussion. The next time someone is considering which to buy and the topic "gas verses diesels" come up something tells me it will be a short thread once I give the link to this discussion.

This thread may sway some, however once your RV gets above 12K or so loaded you really need the power of a diesel

No, you really don't. Repeating an incorrect statement does not make it correct!

Note: there are THOUSANDS of people using gas power to move 25,000+lb motorhomes without a problem!

[Hybridhunter]

Mr.Beebo wrote:
The diesel posts are for another thread.
To answer the OP, yes, there are gas motors in the 3/4 & 1 ton market that will more than ably pull 13k thru elevation. 6 speed transmissions make a huge difference as well as 4.10 gearing. To 2nd the post above from Fishbreath, the gas motors wind out when they need to; that is where they make their power. Doesn't bother me a bit and it shouldn't, as that is what they are made to do. I can pull 9k at 60mph running about 1900 rpm or I can run at 3k in tow/haul and it sounds sweet and smooth as powdered sugar.

My towing story is not of heavy towing, but the 2 trailers I tow are..... a very tall 3800# Hybrid, and a normal height 24'TT (basically a Rockwood Roo)6000# loaded. The 3800# Hybrid is a noticeably harder tow on the flats. Ive crossed the Rockies, via Colorado 4 times with an F150 with the 3.7.

On the flats, 65ish (sometimes 70) the tiny, inadequate, joke of a motor, not suited to a truck.......Pulls both in 5th, at 2200rpm steady, even into a light wind. Into stronger gusts, 4th gear, 2800ish rpm. (Getting the same 10mpg as my dads 4.6 V8, slightly better than my old Tacoma at 9mpg)
Climbing the Ike pass, lots of 3rd gear, 4500rpm (with a nice growl on the 2013, 2011 was just a bit too noisy). and on a number of occasions, 2 gear, because I just set the cruise and let it shift. Other than the relatively brief times at higher altitude where horsepower is down, I enjoy the fantastic economy (purchase, cost of ownership, and fuel mileage) of owning the base engine. I don't have all the hangups and ego issues associated with not having the bigger engine. Fact is, 300hp was a class leader in half tons 10 years ago. I can unhook, drive to the lake, getting 21-22mpg at 70 mph, and go 0-60 in under 8 seconds.
Hope that helps with the OP's original question.

[Hybridhunter]

So your scared of high rpms? Okay. YOU have a "reason" not to buy a gasser.
Other than the optics of it, what is the difference between a gasser at 5000rpm, or a diesel at 3000? (other than 50 or so horsepower, haha)
Having swapped out our cummins 5.9 Ram shop truck to a Hemi..... The hemi wins every time. Especially when half the injectors took a dump and we had to overhaul the fuel system. Our fleet manager agreed, never again. Not a single driver misses the cummins.
At auction, we took a hit because apparently folks have learned the inevitability of costly diesel repairs.

[sacmarata]

Pulled the TT over Jelico Mt today with the 6.0 gasser. Held 55mph but she was screamin and tranny temps started creepin over 210. Central KY to Calhoun GA mostly I75. Not too bad for most of the trip but I dread hittin Jelico on the way back home.
trips like this just reafirm my trust in the old 12 valve. No need for a fancy 6 speed. The 12 valve has the torque to stay locked up and pull Jelico easy peezy.

[Bedlam]

I'm another diesel owner looking at gasoline engines in my next truck. Although I have been very happy with my 6.0 PSD, I don't like the direction the engines are going with emphasis on power over economy and the complexity of current emission systems. I'm looking at class 4 and 5 trucks which will take a big chunk of cash and am very reluctant to pay the diesel upcharge even though I enjoy the diesels of the past. 2015 may the year of the big block gas engine in my household.