Are You Buying All These Half-ton Claims?

[cekkk]

"All-New F-150 Can Tow a Ram, a Silverado & Haul Two Hondas" Tows 12,200, claimed. (Ford Truck Enthusiasts)

I guess we can soon do away with our 3/4 & 1-tonners. In a couple years the capacity race will have them up to 20,000 lbs. :h

[spoon059]

ordually wrote:
Spoon, if you want to come out west sometime I wouldn't hesitate a minute to tow your identical trailer with your Tundra.

I would LOVE to... work, family and financial considerations make it pretty unrealistic though. When I was 14 my dad took the whole family cross country for 6 weeks. Horrible trip at the time (14 year old boy stuck with 2 older sisters, mom, dad and dog for 6 weeks), but in retrospect it was an amazing trip. I will eventually head out there... but its unlikely to happen soon.

[BenK]

I've had four 'half ton' trucks/SUVs and now the 8.6K GVWR Sub. Messed around
with family/friends +8K GVWR trucks (both 2WD and 4x4) since the mid 60's

Been there done that 'thinking' it was okay (difference between ok, can, should)...key
question on that is: 'how long' and 'how well'...

[goducks10]

Towing a 22H isn't the same as towing a 35' 10,000lb TT, which some would think doable from all the 1/2 ton hype spewed by the big 3 manufacturers.

[ordually]

I'm late on this thread but wanted to add on to Spoon's comments about towing his Nash 22H with his Tundra vs. a 2500+ since I have the same trailer and two similar tow vehicles.

Spoon wrote, comparing Dodge 2500:

spoon059 wrote:


I realize that 700 lbs of capacity is a LOT... but I didn't need it at the time and don't anticipate needing it for my expected life of the Tundra. For $7000 extra dollars for capacity I never anticipated needing to use, it wasn't worth it. For a heavier chassis sitting on my asphalt driveway, causing greater wear and tear, it wasn't worth it. For a rougher ride all the time when I only expect to tow around 3000 miles a year, it wasn't worth it. For the higher fuel costs AND lower expected fuel economy, it wasn't worth it.

I've towed 2000 mile trips 3 times down to Florida with this rig now. It has been stable and solid as a rock. I don't sway, I don't get the push/pull from passing tractor trailers. I've towed up in the east coast mountains with ZERO problems. Plenty of power going up the hill, plenty of control coming down the hill.

I know that in the lifetime of this truck I will never go in the Rockies. I know what my next trailer will be. I know how I camp and I know what we bring with us. I know what my weights will be, I know what my limits are.

I have ZERO regrets about the $7000 that I saved initially, plus fuel costs and better mileage in my Tundra.

I'm sure a new Cummins 3500 dually would tow BETTER... but not dollar for dollar better.

This thread is asking about the ability of a half ton to tow the higher weights as advertised. I believe that they are perfectly safe and able to tow those weights, when properly equipped and within the ratings. The question wasn't asked if the half tons tow AS WELL as 1 tons.

I concur completely. I have a F350 V10 for horse chores, usually towing a gooseneck horse or hydraulic dump trailer with my tractor or loads of stuff for the dump. I've towed loads from 5K to 15K with it, long and short trips. I bought a Sequoia 5.7L to tow my Nash 22H on 100-150 mile (one-way) trips to the Colorado high country 7-10 times a year. The Nash weighs 5200 empty.

Data point 1: F350 towing the Nash 22H empty, Albuquerque where I bought it to Denver, about 400 miles, running freeway posted speed limits, no weight distribution. No sway or sag or any of the like. 7MPG.

Data point 2: With three seasons of towing now, I've put about 3K of towing miles on. All of that was over 6000ft, and 6-7 times per year it's up to 11K ft at the Eisenhower tunnel on the I70 freeway. Scaled weight (at a weigh station, for free) is 7400 on the Sequoia and 5700 on the trailer, 13100 combined. (That's over on the Sequoia GVWR for those keeping track). I can post more details on the towing experience, but the short of it is with the Equalizer hitch (and LT tires) it's every bit as stable as the F350. The 5.7L/6sp combo provides excellent performance both going up and down any grade I've encountered. I'm at 100 lb less than the GCWR and I can run the posted freeway speeds on any grade I've run in Colorado.

I'm totally impressed with the half-ton Toyota performance for a travel trailer within the ratings posted for it.

Spoon, if you want to come out west sometime I wouldn't hesitate a minute to tow your identical trailer with your Tundra.

[BenK]

Most all things designed/engineered are NOT for the good days when even a riding lawn mower "can do it"....but the worst day when Mr Murphy crosses your path

Either you have the right sized and/or setup correctly...or not....no time to go back to the store for bigger...better components or systems, etc

Too many think it only happens to the other guy...tell that to that other guy...

The design team tells you where the ratings lines are...along with fine print. That is their contract (warranty) to you, the buyer

Note that marketing and lawyers are part of the design team...

RoyJ wrote:

CKNSLS wrote:
You know Roy the one point that keeps getting brought up is "emergency maneuver" or some other such safety term. I maintain the point I made a couple of pages back that most of us in an emergency are not going to be experienced enough to come out of it in a satisfactory manner. It's just the way it is.

And you're absolutely right, not disputing that at all.

So why do we do it? Because in a non-emergency situation, I can safely tow 25,000 lbs with an F150 in 4Lo. But not if I encounter an "emergency", especially at speed.

[cekkk]

buddyIam wrote:
Cekkk

If you take a look at your keyboard. 'E' is right next to 'W'. Toe and Tow are most likely a typing error not even a spelling error of any kind.

Word and Work. Both the 'd' and the 'k' are middle finger letters.

Then we look at your post and the '.' and the 'L' are neighboring keys.

What ever the reason we all get fat fingers sometimes and a squeal from a grandkid can get under our nerves. :E

I looked at my keyboard, daily, for 50 years. Sorry, it's a decent theory, but I'm not buying it, at all. Once, standing alone, maybe. But multiple times, accompanied by other mistakes of varying nature, nope. The writer "nos know" better.

But, as I said, while it's something I notice, I'm not complaining.

As for my "centuryl," just what I was talking about. Blurry vision. Ten years ago I'd have caught that with or without proofreading it.

Talking about keyboards, I'm yet to run across a computer keyboard as good as the average electric typewriter of decades ago. They're fine for hunt and peck, but try a hundred words a minute on them. At least the ones I've had.

I enjoyed your response, thoughtful.

[buddyIam]

Cekkk

If you take a look at your keyboard. 'E' is right next to 'W'. Toe and Tow are most likely a typing error not even a spelling error of any kind.

Word and Work. Both the 'd' and the 'k' are middle finger letters.

Then we look at your post and the '.' and the 'L' are neighboring keys.

What ever the reason we all get fat fingers sometimes and a squeal from a grandkid can get under our nerves. :E

[buddyIam]

brulaz

That's not enough payload for my 11.5 foot treble slide truck camper. (I wish). It's a bit over 4500 dry weight. Now If I do buy a camper it's because I have a boat to haul. Add in the tongue weight. And I need at least the f450 chassis cab. And if I want to take along a few kids and sodas. I may need a f550.

5th wheels are bad for overloading the large campers even worse.

I thought the newer xlt's were the middle equipped truck. And the xl was the stripper.

[The_Texan]

Dennis Dillon is not known for their ethics in their sales department. I imagine that one truck was sold the day it was advertised and they are still using it as a come on...

[IdaD]

spoon059 wrote:

IdaD wrote:
Did you buy new and what did you pay? If you don't mind sharing, anyway.

Right now in my area I could get a Ram 6.4 for around $32k and a Ram CTD for around $37k. These are basic Tradesman models, but the essentials are there - 4wd, cloth seats, AC, keyless, power windows/doors, etc. Add maybe $1000 to make it a 3500.

I doubt I could get a Tundra for much less, and I doubt a Tundra is any easier on gas than the 6.4.

I bought new in 2010 and paid $30.5 after rebates. At that time Ram didn't offer the 6.4, only the 5.7 Hemi. The 5.7 offered about 3 more HP and about the same torque. The Ram 2500 offered me about 2100 or 2200 lbs payload and a heavier chassis to move. It was about $37 or $38K for worse gas mileage (heavier truck all the time). higher fuel costs for 89 octane and only 600 or 700 lbs more capacity.

I realize that 700 lbs of capacity is a LOT... but I didn't need it at the time and don't anticipate needing it for my expected life of the Tundra. For $7000 extra dollars for capacity I never anticipated needing to use, it wasn't worth it. For a heavier chassis sitting on my asphalt driveway, causing greater wear and tear, it wasn't worth it. For a rougher ride all the time when I only expect to tow around 3000 miles a year, it wasn't worth it. For the higher fuel costs AND lower expected fuel economy, it wasn't worth it.

I've towed 2000 mile trips 3 times down to Florida with this rig now. It has been stable and solid as a rock. I don't sway, I don't get the push/pull from passing tractor trailers. I've towed up in the east coast mountains with ZERO problems. Plenty of power going up the hill, plenty of control coming down the hill.

I know that in the lifetime of this truck I will never go in the Rockies. I know what my next trailer will be. I know how I camp and I know what we bring with us. I know what my weights will be, I know what my limits are.

I have ZERO regrets about the $7000 that I saved initially, plus fuel costs and better mileage in my Tundra.

I'm sure a new Cummins 3500 dually would tow BETTER... but not dollar for dollar better.

This thread is asking about the ability of a half ton to tow the higher weights as advertised. I believe that they are perfectly safe and able to tow those weights, when properly equipped and within the ratings. The question wasn't asked if the half tons tow AS WELL as 1 tons.

I think you could have done better than $37-38k on a gas powered three quarter or one ton Ram back in 2010 but maybe I'm wrong. My point was just that the initial cost difference is usually pretty overblown.

Current Example: http://www.dennisdillonchryslerjeepdodge.com/new/Ram/2014-Ram-3500-Caldwell-77abc2a90a0a00656dad302fac61d2b4.htm

I doubt you would pay any less for a Tundra/F150/etc with at a similar trim level.

[Wills6_4_Hemi]

I don't consider many of todays trucks 150/1500 250/2500 350/3500 to be 1/2 3/4 or q ton trucks. Some so called 1/2 ton trucks have 3000lb payloads. My 08 f250 has 2550lb of payload. I think I read that some so called 1tons have over 5000lbs of payload. Seems to me a new label is needed for them?. Will

[cekkk]

Toe/tow, break/brake, loose/lose, to/too, their/there - these all make me a little nuts as knowing the difference was how I made a living for nearly a half centuryl.

But, as these eyes age I find myself making typing errors of the typo kind, with no idea how many i miss, so I'm not about to b.... and moan any more.

[RoyJ]

CKNSLS wrote:
You know Roy the one point that keeps getting brought up is "emergency maneuver" or some other such safety term. I maintain the point I made a couple of pages back that most of us in an emergency are not going to be experienced enough to come out of it in a satisfactory manner. It's just the way it is.

And you're absolutely right, not disputing that at all.

So why do we do it? Because in a non-emergency situation, I can safely tow 25,000 lbs with an F150 in 4Lo. But not if I encounter an "emergency", especially at speed.

[RoyJ]

CKNSLS wrote:
Ditto Ben. On the truck boards you get newbies all the time asking..."Can I tow this 9,000 pound trailer?" Because my manual says I can tow 9,500 pounds. There is not thought, knowledge,etc, of the word PAYLOAD. Of course, many times the trailer is already purchased because "The RV salesperson said I could tow it!"

And there're also those of us with engineering backgrounds, as well as commercial hauling experience...

I don't side with either the "weight police", or newbies who push their trucks.

All I want to see, is engineering data or justification on why something can and cannot be towed safely.

Give me chassis rigidity numbers (in N-m/deg), and not just "the one ton has a big'ol frame". Give me the rotor swept areas, and the pad coefficient with temperature. Give me the actual axle ratings from the axle manufacturer. I want to know what the real limitations are, and not marketing.

When the same SUV is rated for 7700 lbs in Europe and 5000 lbs in North America, we know the engineer is not the one making the call.

When a modern 280 hp Minivan is rated exactly the same as a late 80's Plymouth 4 cyl, we also know the engineer is not making the call.