Batteries - simple question

[MKirkland]

Have you found the no maintenance (12 volt) batteries worth the price that you pay extra for them? Our RV shop doesn't even carry them, but they came on our 2011 trailer and probably are due to be replaced. I would have to go to a special battery store to get them.

[StirCrazy]

babock wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
So, in reality, you WILL pay MORE for AGM and GET LESS capacity for the SAME BATTERY SIZE and will not get any longer service life.

I myself have never understood why some one would buy an AGM for a normal RV setup. up here they are more like 50% more expensive and as long as you have a vented battery compartment why spend the extra?

Steve

Other than

1) Less self discharge
2) Never add water
3) Lower internal impedance which makes them better at driving higher current loads like inverters with lower voltage drop.
4) Because of the lower internal impedance, they also charge faster than an FLA battery

I use them in both my boats mainly because of the self discharge characteristics.

I add water twice a year, and its only a couple oz in each. a good charger minimizes water loss but ya I do have to add a bit.

self discharge is never an issue as the solar keeps it topped up when it isnt plugged in and normally it is always plugged in at home.

have no issues running my inverter and with the solar and/or being plugged in charging is never and issue, so in my case spending almost 400 bucks for a 180ah 6v agm vs 140 for a 210ah 6v lead acid just doesn't make since, but in a boat, that's a different story.

Steve

[freetime58]

Gdetrailer wrote:

freetime58 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
AGMs by their nature have nearly 10%-20% LESS capacity for the same size.

What????? Not true at all. A quick check of group 31 specs from Northstar AGM, Exide, Interstate and Trojan for Flooded Lead Acid proves you completely wrong! LOL Northstar AGM had better specs than all but one example, that one example was tough as they used a different discharge rate in their testing than all the others.....which is something to watch for when comparing specs....some manufacturers use a lower discharge rate to get better numbers.

Now if you're talking Opitma........ Spiral cell AGM battery, they are terrible with some of the lowest capacities in the industry. Stay away from Optima!!!!

I am not talking about comparing "group31" batteries, nor am I comparing Optima Spiral cells. Many AGMs are not spirals.

AGMs by their CONSTRUCTION TAKE MORE SPACE per Ahr than flooded and that IS a fact.

Here is an example of easy to get Duracel brand which is sold at Sams Club.

AGM

Specifications

1 amp hour rate: 103
100 amp hour rate: 220
20 amp hour rate: 190
3 amp hour rate: 145
5 amp hour rate: 163
6 amp hour rate: 167.8
8 amp hour rate: 173.7
Battery Electrolyte Composition: Glass Mat
Battery End Type: Top Post
Battery Purpose: Starting Lighting Instrumentation
BCI Group Size: GC2
CCA at 0 degrees F: 680
Freight Class: 65
MCA at 32 degrees F: 900
Minutes at 15 amps: 718
Minutes at 25 amps: 409
Minutes at 5 amps: 2304
Minutes at 50 amps: 171
Minutes at 75 amps: 94
Minutes at 8 amps: 1409
Reserve Capacity: 380
Terminal Type: SAE
Volts: 6

Duracell GC2 FLOODED

FLA GC2

Specifications

20 amp hour rate:215
5 amp hour rate: 157
6 amp hour rate: 156
Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid
Battery End Type: Top Post
Battery Purpose: Deep Cycle
BCI Group Size: GC2
Contents: ONE EACH
Freight Class:65
Minutes at 25 amps: 395
Minutes at 75 amps: 105
Terminal Type: DIN
Volts:6

Now, unless you have been taught some "new math" 190 Ahr of AGM IS LESS than 215Ahr of GC2 FLA!

AGM is only 88.3% the capacity of THE SAME SIZE GC2 FLA.

To add insult to injury, the last time I priced those GC2 AGMs they were going for $109 each vs GC2 FLA at $89. That puts the GC2 FLAs at 81.7% LESS COST than the same size GC2 AGM.

So, in reality, you WILL pay MORE for AGM and GET LESS capacity for the SAME BATTERY SIZE and will not get any longer service life.

I think even if you compare YOUR "preferred" "premium" brands you WILL find a similar difference in CAPACITY AND COST.

With Premnium brands, you get a longer warranty, but you PAID MORE for that battery which means you PAID UPFRONT for that extra warranty. You will not find any real extra life..

Compare them, don't be an Internet "Lemming" and play follow the "leader".

If you want the bragging rights for paying more and getting less, by all means spend your money and buy the AGMs.

Been using AGM's for 15+ years in my boat, so not really an internet Lemming FFS, all 4 are Northstar, will never go back to lead acid because of all the benefits AGM's provide. Money has never been a concern for me and I do like bragging rights........so I guess I'll continue. I'm probably making the jump to LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries, those replacement batteries should be about $5000....now those are some serious batteries.

[babock]

StirCrazy wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
So, in reality, you WILL pay MORE for AGM and GET LESS capacity for the SAME BATTERY SIZE and will not get any longer service life.

I myself have never understood why some one would buy an AGM for a normal RV setup. up here they are more like 50% more expensive and as long as you have a vented battery compartment why spend the extra?

Steve

Other than

1) Less self discharge
2) Never add water
3) Lower internal impedance which makes them better at driving higher current loads like inverters with lower voltage drop.
4) Because of the lower internal impedance, they also charge faster than an FLA battery

I use them in both my boats mainly because of the self discharge characteristics.

[StirCrazy]

Gdetrailer wrote:
So, in reality, you WILL pay MORE for AGM and GET LESS capacity for the SAME BATTERY SIZE and will not get any longer service life.

I myself have never understood why some one would buy an AGM for a normal RV setup. up here they are more like 50% more expensive and as long as you have a vented battery compartment why spend the extra?

Steve

[Gdetrailer]

freetime58 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
AGMs by their nature have nearly 10%-20% LESS capacity for the same size.

What????? Not true at all. A quick check of group 31 specs from Northstar AGM, Exide, Interstate and Trojan for Flooded Lead Acid proves you completely wrong! LOL Northstar AGM had better specs than all but one example, that one example was tough as they used a different discharge rate in their testing than all the others.....which is something to watch for when comparing specs....some manufacturers use a lower discharge rate to get better numbers.

Now if you're talking Opitma........ Spiral cell AGM battery, they are terrible with some of the lowest capacities in the industry. Stay away from Optima!!!!

I am not talking about comparing "group31" batteries, nor am I comparing Optima Spiral cells. Many AGMs are not spirals.

AGMs by their CONSTRUCTION TAKE MORE SPACE per Ahr than flooded and that IS a fact.

Here is an example of easy to get Duracel brand which is sold at Sams Club.

AGM

Specifications

1 amp hour rate: 103
100 amp hour rate: 220
20 amp hour rate: 190
3 amp hour rate: 145
5 amp hour rate: 163
6 amp hour rate: 167.8
8 amp hour rate: 173.7
Battery Electrolyte Composition: Glass Mat
Battery End Type: Top Post
Battery Purpose: Starting Lighting Instrumentation
BCI Group Size: GC2
CCA at 0 degrees F: 680
Freight Class: 65
MCA at 32 degrees F: 900
Minutes at 15 amps: 718
Minutes at 25 amps: 409
Minutes at 5 amps: 2304
Minutes at 50 amps: 171
Minutes at 75 amps: 94
Minutes at 8 amps: 1409
Reserve Capacity: 380
Terminal Type: SAE
Volts: 6

Duracell GC2 FLOODED

FLA GC2

Specifications

20 amp hour rate:215
5 amp hour rate: 157
6 amp hour rate: 156
Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid
Battery End Type: Top Post
Battery Purpose: Deep Cycle
BCI Group Size: GC2
Contents: ONE EACH
Freight Class:65
Minutes at 25 amps: 395
Minutes at 75 amps: 105
Terminal Type: DIN
Volts:6

Now, unless you have been taught some "new math" 190 Ahr of AGM IS LESS than 215Ahr of GC2 FLA!

AGM is only 88.3% the capacity of THE SAME SIZE GC2 FLA.

To add insult to injury, the last time I priced those GC2 AGMs they were going for $109 each vs GC2 FLA at $89. That puts the GC2 FLAs at 81.7% LESS COST than the same size GC2 AGM.

So, in reality, you WILL pay MORE for AGM and GET LESS capacity for the SAME BATTERY SIZE and will not get any longer service life.

I think even if you compare YOUR "preferred" "premium" brands you WILL find a similar difference in CAPACITY AND COST.

With Premnium brands, you get a longer warranty, but you PAID MORE for that battery which means you PAID UPFRONT for that extra warranty. You will not find any real extra life..

Compare them, don't be an Internet "Lemming" and play follow the "leader".

If you want the bragging rights for paying more and getting less, by all means spend your money and buy the AGMs.

[freetime58]

Gdetrailer wrote:
AGMs by their nature have nearly 10%-20% LESS capacity for the same size.

What????? Not true at all. A quick check of group 31 specs from Northstar AGM, Exide, Interstate and Trojan for Flooded Lead Acid proves you completely wrong! LOL Northstar AGM had better specs than all but one example, that one example was tough as they used a different discharge rate in their testing than all the others.....which is something to watch for when comparing specs....some manufacturers use a lower discharge rate to get better numbers.

Now if you're talking Opitma........ Spiral cell AGM battery, they are terrible with some of the lowest capacities in the industry. Stay away from Optima!!!!

[freetime58]

Northstar Pure Lead AGM batteries are some of the best you can buy. 4 year free replacement warranty, not prorated, absolutely free replacement. They sure stand behind their product. I run 4 group 31's in my boat and have one grp 31 on my trailer, been flawless for me. AGM batteries self discharge at a far slower rate than Flooded Lead Acid batteries, charge twice as quick and can sustain many more charge/discharge cycles! Expensive but worth every penny, no brainer for me!

https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/nsb-agm31

[midnightsadie]

if your just a easy going week end ,week or too a summer camper wet cell from wal mart will do just fine ,wal mart deep cycle marine will handle the job.and mine are four years old still in good shape.

[Gdetrailer]

La Gasser wrote:
X2 on AGM batteries - my 1st experience with them was on a 2008 camper with Lifeline brand. Traded the camper in 9 years later and still had the original batteries. New trailer going on 3 years with Interstate AGM batteries with no problems. In most cases the batteries on rv's are hard to access to check and water levels plus some build up acid on the posts. With AGM, no water to check and no acid to clean. I wouldn't have any other type of battery on an rv even though they costs more. AGM batteries can be shipped by UPS unlike flooded batteries.

:R

Hate to tell you, with VERY LITTLE "maintenance", wet cells CAN easily last 11 to 12 yrs with very little loss of capacity.

My current TT, I just changed my set of 6V wet cell GC2s, that set was 10 yrs old.

The ONLY reason I changed them was I DEPEND on that pair to run my home fridge conversion while driving and overnighting and the old set had lost about 10%-15% of it's new capacity.

I have easily had flooded auto starting batteries go 15 yrs before they lost enough capacity to start in zero degree weather.

Folks who PUSH AGMs as the ONLY solution are doing folks a disfavor.

Not everyone will benefit using AGMs.

Depending on your camping style, the cheapest no maintenance group24 RV/marine battery for $50 will be fine and give 8-10 yrs of use with proper good converter/charger.

AGMs by their nature have nearly 10%-20% LESS capacity for the same size. You WILL pay 20%-50% HIGHER PRICE.

I have never had to "clean up" acid with my wet GC batteries and pretty much no other automotive batteries. If you having to clean up Acid you HAVE a problem with that battery, either the terminal seals, over charging or too much electrolyte.

I should take a photo of my 6V GC battery terminals and post it some time, they are clean enough to eat off.. No corrosion, no acid, no grease, no dirt... And I have done NOTHING to them, no cleaning, no nothing.

As far as watering goes, as wet cells age, you will need to add some, but if you have a GOOD converter/charger it will be minimal. when my last set was 8 or nine yrs old, typically only needed 20 oz of water for all 6 cells per yr. Not a big deal like most folks here would have folks believe.

And if you have an absolute hate for watering or they are in a difficult place to get to, then buy a self watering kit, it can be reused on the next set of GC batts.

My wet GC2s are in a bay and are tucked back in that bay, they sit in a plastic bin, they are hard to slide in an out so I only check the water level once a year..

I am pleased with the performance and life of my wet GC2s and I spent less money and have 20% more capacity, they capacity is what I need. With AGMs I would have to have 2 pairs of GC2 size to get the capacity my fridge needs..

Believe it or not folks, you REALLY do not have to buy "designer" or "exotic" batteries to camp..

[BB_TX]

Have had only standard batteries in our 2007 5er ever since we bought it new and have never had a problem with them. Currently on our third battery in 13 years, about 5 yrs life each. And even at that I replace them before they begin to get weak. We are always hooked up to electric when traveling and when in storage. Never any problem with build up on the terminals at all. Adding water is only slightly difficult to the back cells, but not bad enough to warrant getting maintenance free. I just use a turkey baster to add water to the cells.

[Lwiddis]

Since I enjoy maintaining my TT I don’t mind checking my batteries. Wet is fine for me.

[La_Gasser]

X2 on AGM batteries - my 1st experience with them was on a 2008 camper with Lifeline brand. Traded the camper in 9 years later and still had the original batteries. New trailer going on 3 years with Interstate AGM batteries with no problems. In most cases the batteries on rv's are hard to access to check and water levels plus some build up acid on the posts. With AGM, no water to check and no acid to clean. I wouldn't have any other type of battery on an rv even though they costs more. AGM batteries can be shipped by UPS unlike flooded batteries.

[deltabravo]

MKirkland wrote:
Have you found the no maintenance (12 volt) batteries worth the price that you pay extra for them?

AGM, YES!

The batteries in my truck camper were extremely difficult to check / add water to because they sit so high when the camper is on the truck. When I replaced them in 2015 I went AGM and will NEVER use wet call batteries again.

Look for a DEKA battery dealer.

[KD4UPL]

Are you talking about maintenance free flooded batteries or AGM batteries? Personally I wouldn't get maintenance free flooded batteries as I would want to be able to check and add water when needed. I think I could get a few more years of life out of them being able to do that.
AGM batteries are another matter. If you really use your batteries hard, particularly in cold weather then AGMs are probably worth the expense. If you basically never camp without plugging in then there's no reason to buy expensive batteries.