Brand New - TT Weight question

[beaker305]

Hello everyone, brand new here and to RVing in general. Here is my story and I hope some of you can provide some insight:

I just recently purchased a 2017 Ford Explorer 4wd V6 with the class 3 towing package. The towing rating is 5,000 lbs. I went to an RV show last weekend and found a travel trailer that I loved and saw that it came in at 4500 lbs....500 less than my vehicle is rated for. I signed the buyers order and planned to pick it up this coming weekend. Over the past few days I have been educating myself on all things RV and came across a lot of mixed information about towing and weights. (Especially that vehicle manufacturers overstate towing capacities and RV manufacturers understate trailer weights) I'm afraid now that my vehicle won't really be able to tow this trailer and I'll be stuck once I get to the dealership to pick this up. Shame on me for not doing enough research ahead of time, but it ended up being one of those impulse decisions. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[beaker305]

lawrosa wrote:

beaker305 wrote:
Thank you everyone for the input. I guess I jumped in a little to quickly. Im going to call the dealer today and see what they can do. Based on what I've read now, it look like I could probably downgrade to the 178LHS and be ok with size weight?

Read the posts from below wisely...Some people like to put fear in others it would seem. It seems common there are some that think you need to tow anything with diesal duallys only....LOL.

Listen. The 178 LHS would be a fabulous choice for that tow vehicle.

Its about 3300 lbs as advertised.Thats a good weight for you. Heck fully loaded looks around 4300 lbs. Thats 1200 of cargo. I doubt you will find enough spots to put that much cargo in that camper.

With only a 340lb TW you will not need a real heavy WD hitch. After propane and batterys you should be up in the 440 range on the TW.

I towed a 4000 lb trailer (in my sig) with my s10 chevy that was rated at 5500 lbs. I loaded the trailer light and if I was at 5000 lbs that was a lot.

The thing with the s10 was a low axle rating. So I was only able to tow with me in the truck. ( wife and kids would follow) It left me with 500lbs left for odds and ends.

Because I was near my limits I took my truck to the scales and had both axles weighed. Then I took the door tag axle weights and subtracted from the scale weights. That will tell you exactly what payload you have left for towing.( get weighed with full tank of fuel and all the people/gear youll have in the truck)

weighing will give you exact #'s to know how much more people and things you can put in the truck.

Now even though you are withing specs that still is a lot of weight. They give that truck only a 5K ratings for a reason. There is a weak link somewhere. Most of the time its the trans. You will need a trans cooler. Install the biggest trans cooler you can fit behind the grill.

Dont tow in overdrive, and take it slow until you get used to it.

Youll need a brake controller. The prodigy p3 is a good model unless your truck has one from the factory.

The brochure on your truck says that the tow package may be an oil cooler. Find out if this is an engine oil cooler or trans cooler.

This turned into quite the interesting bit of responses. Thanks for your logical information. I am probably not going with that one, but I did find a couple with similar specs that have a much better floorplan (Passport 199ML for one). This has been a very educational adventure so far, lol

[lawrosa]

Its probably the frame thats limiting. The hitch rating actually goes down (on TW)if you put a WD on it.


Looks like a partial frame truck and I wouldnt even consider towing over the 4500 lbs its rated for.

I probably wouldnt put a WD on it either in the standard form but get the anderson linked here. On the single axle trailers youll get that sway issue and IMO the best unit is the anderson WD hitch.

My buddys that tow with thier jeeps and single wheel campers have them and they work well..

Anderson WD hitch

But I would get some kind of trans cooler on there.

I wonder if these trucks have tow haul mode?

The OP's trailer he is looking at is perfect IMO. The 17LHS


Video of hitch

[beaker305]

downtheroad wrote:
I'll chime back in.....if it helps at all, more than want to admit have made the same mistake when we bought our first trailer.

Being from the Northwest and near you, I can almost guess the name of the dealer that set you up and told you, "You can tow this with your Explorer no problem."

It was a dealer in the Portland area...went to a show down there last week. They are (of course) defending their position stating that "on paper" you can tow this, so we're not at fault. I expect a fight but I'm not taking the deal and looking at other options closer to home.

[horton333]

SoundGuy wrote:

horton333 wrote:
If you look at the Pathfinder, a significantly less capable vehicle, they pass this standard at 6,000#.

Sure, because the J2807 standard is far more complex and takes into consideration not just load but various characteristics of the particular vehicle involved, not the least of which are available axle ratio(s), tire sizes, transmission characteristics, engine characteristics, etc, etc, along with the ability of that particular vehicle to negotiate taxing upgrades. Of course the ratings are different, that's what J2807 is intended to reflect. To compare one particular vehicle to another just because they're both similarly sized SUVs is ridiculous when all the work has been done for you with J2807. You may choose to believe this is yet more "marketing hubub" designed to fool the masses but for those of us who believe J2807 really is an improvement in how vehicles are rated for towing there's NO WAY one could conclude the OP's Explorer is suitable for towing a 6000 lb 26' travel trailer. :R

In what technical way is the Pathfinder more capable.....There are a couple where it is obviously less capable than this model Explorer. The SAE spec is actually fairly limited, it seems to focus almost exclusively on acceleration, hills, and cooling. These are the areas where the Explorer is most obviously better on 2 of those 3, and that spec is very benign to chassis issues. BTW I went through several of these vehicles in great detail as my Explorer is 300k and I'm thinking of replacing it, I'm not talking through my hat as you seem to hope.

[SoundGuy]

horton333 wrote:
If you look at the Pathfinder, a significantly less capable vehicle, they pass this standard at 6,000#.

Sure, because the J2807 standard is far more complex and takes into consideration not just load but various characteristics of the particular vehicle involved, not the least of which are available axle ratio(s), tire sizes, transmission characteristics, engine characteristics, etc, etc, along with the ability of that particular vehicle to negotiate taxing upgrades. Of course the ratings are different, that's what J2807 is intended to reflect. To compare one particular vehicle to another just because they're both similarly sized SUVs is ridiculous when all the work has been done for you with J2807. You may choose to believe this is yet more "marketing hubub" designed to fool the masses but for those of us who believe J2807 really is an improvement in how vehicles are rated for towing there's NO WAY one could conclude the OP's Explorer is suitable for towing a 6000 lb 26' travel trailer. :R

[horton333]

SoundGuy wrote:

horton333 wrote:
That Explorer in most ways is a better tow vehicle than the old ones, that were rated at 7,200# - for reference.
The Explorer is likely fine for that trailer ...

SoundGuy wrote:
Oh boy, here we go again. :S "Likely fine" is not a technical term that in any way defines the towing capability of the OP's Explorer ... numbers do, and that Explorer does not have the numbers for towing a 26' long trailer that will almost assuredly weigh awfully close to 6000 lbs fully loaded and ready to camp. NO way. :E

boosTT wrote:
Can you name a technical reason why the new Explorer is so much less capable than the old one was? Not an opinion or marketing numbers, a technical reason.

Sure - how 'bout the fact the OP's new Explorer carries a factory tow rating of just 5000 lbs and that trailer he first mentioned will surely weigh close to 6000 lbs loaded & ready to camp, not even taking into consideration how many people and how much cargo may also be in the Explorer at the time. Good grief, how much more of a "technical reason" does one need to know this Explorer is totally inadequate for towing a trailer of this size? :S

Keep in mind also that most manufacturers, Ford included, are now quoting trailer tow ratings that adhere to the J2807 standard which was designed by the Society of Automotive Engineers to accurately reflect the ability of their vehicles to tow a load. This isn't just "opinion or marketing" but a concerted effort by those designing and manufacturing the vehicles we buy to provide us with information we need to accurately determine just how any particular vehicle may safely tow ... and by that definition the OP's Explorer isn't anywhere near capable of towing a trailer of that size. No way. :E

As I said a technical reason, tow ratings are marketing for SUV class vehicles, and the challenge remains open for anyone wanting to defend the new ones capability is so much less when almost all the technical specs are so much better (there is one and it's easily visable to anyone who knows what to look for, but it's not enough to justify the rating decrease).
The SAE spec is a testing specification that confirms the vehicle meets the number advertised based on some standardized assumptions. Would a higher load would have passed if it had been used in the test, you don't know. In practice for trucks this will establish a maximum rating as they will (and do per stories in the media) crank the load till they fail. For SUVs not so much due to the difference in how they are marketed. If you look at the Pathfinder, a significantly less capable vehicle, they pass this standard at 6,000#.

[SoundGuy]

horton333 wrote:
That Explorer in most ways is a better tow vehicle than the old ones, that were rated at 7,200# - for reference.
The Explorer is likely fine for that trailer ...

SoundGuy wrote:
Oh boy, here we go again. :S "Likely fine" is not a technical term that in any way defines the towing capability of the OP's Explorer ... numbers do, and that Explorer does not have the numbers for towing a 26' long trailer that will almost assuredly weigh awfully close to 6000 lbs fully loaded and ready to camp. NO way. :E

boosTT wrote:
Can you name a technical reason why the new Explorer is so much less capable than the old one was? Not an opinion or marketing numbers, a technical reason.

Sure - how 'bout the fact the OP's new Explorer carries a factory tow rating of just 5000 lbs and that trailer he first mentioned will surely weigh close to 6000 lbs loaded & ready to camp, not even taking into consideration how many people and how much cargo may also be in the Explorer at the time. Good grief, how much more of a "technical reason" does one need to know this Explorer is totally inadequate for towing a trailer of this size? :S

Keep in mind also that most manufacturers, Ford included, are now quoting trailer tow ratings that adhere to the J2807 standard which was designed by the Society of Automotive Engineers to accurately reflect the ability of their vehicles to tow a load. This isn't just "opinion or marketing" but a concerted effort by those designing and manufacturing the vehicles we buy to provide us with information we need to accurately determine just how any particular vehicle may safely tow ... and by that definition the OP's Explorer isn't anywhere near capable of towing a trailer of that size. No way. :E

[Jebby14]

horton333 wrote:

Jebby14 wrote:
I have a bridge for sale if you're interested

I guess I'll 'wait till 3' tomorrow for a technical reply..... :R

considering I design automotive machinery for a living, its reasonable to assume I know what I'm talking about. When manufacturers claim a frame is stiffer its a relative term. While an unloaded unibody frame may be more ridged in a lab setting, this means very little. theses frames are lightweight and designed to reduce vibration (what they say as stiffer) and improve on road mannerisms. They are not braced and stiffened in the sense you are thinking. This would increase weight (fuel consumption) and take away performance. I will NOT be getting into a pissing match but to all others reading (specifically OP) you have my answer, I know that I know what I'm talking about. Take it or leave it.

[lawrosa]

That unit looks very nice..



Video 178LHS

[lawrosa]

beaker305 wrote:
Thank you everyone for the input. I guess I jumped in a little to quickly. Im going to call the dealer today and see what they can do. Based on what I've read now, it look like I could probably downgrade to the 178LHS and be ok with size weight?

Read the posts from below wisely...Some people like to put fear in others it would seem. It seems common there are some that think you need to tow anything with diesal duallys only....LOL.

Listen. The 178 LHS would be a fabulous choice for that tow vehicle.

Its about 3300 lbs as advertised.Thats a good weight for you. Heck fully loaded looks around 4300 lbs. Thats 1200 of cargo. I doubt you will find enough spots to put that much cargo in that camper.

With only a 340lb TW you will not need a real heavy WD hitch. After propane and batterys you should be up in the 440 range on the TW.

I towed a 4000 lb trailer (in my sig) with my s10 chevy that was rated at 5500 lbs. I loaded the trailer light and if I was at 5000 lbs that was a lot.

The thing with the s10 was a low axle rating. So I was only able to tow with me in the truck. ( wife and kids would follow) It left me with 500lbs left for odds and ends.

Because I was near my limits I took my truck to the scales and had both axles weighed. Then I took the door tag axle weights and subtracted from the scale weights. That will tell you exactly what payload you have left for towing.( get weighed with full tank of fuel and all the people/gear youll have in the truck)

weighing will give you exact #'s to know how much more people and things you can put in the truck.

Now even though you are withing specs that still is a lot of weight. They give that truck only a 5K ratings for a reason. There is a weak link somewhere. Most of the time its the trans. You will need a trans cooler. Install the biggest trans cooler you can fit behind the grill.

Dont tow in overdrive, and take it slow until you get used to it.

Youll need a brake controller. The prodigy p3 is a good model unless your truck has one from the factory.

The brochure on your truck says that the tow package may be an oil cooler. Find out if this is an engine oil cooler or trans cooler.

[horton333]

Sprink-Fitter wrote:


What does wait till 3 feet mean?

See upthread, it's from a line from a Janis Joplin song, "I'll wait for delivery .... each day until three."

I threw it out when asking for technical support for some people's opinions, as with Janis' futile waiting for delivery each day till three not really expecting people to be able to deliver the goods, day after day.

So far that's what came back, nothing, well nothing but thinly veiled insult that is. It's partly repeated twice later to show the futility of the replies.

Mercedes Benz

[Sprink-Fitter]

horton333 wrote:

Bols2DawaLL wrote:
Horton , di you see this from the OP ?

I just recently purchased a 2017 Ford Explorer 4wd V6 with the class 3 towing package. The towing rating is 5,000 lbs

I guess I'll 'wait till 3' tomorrow for a technical reply..... :R

What does wait till 3 feet mean?

[PAThwacker]

beaker305 wrote:
Thank you everyone for the input. I guess I jumped in a little to quickly. Im going to call the dealer today and see what they can do. Based on what I've read now, it look like I could probably downgrade to the 178LHS and be ok with size weight?

Give up. That exploder might be able to tow a popup camper. And only if equipped with factory tow package, 7 way wiring, brake controlled et al

[horton333]

Bols2DawaLL wrote:
Horton , di you see this from the OP ?

I just recently purchased a 2017 Ford Explorer 4wd V6 with the class 3 towing package. The towing rating is 5,000 lbs

I guess I'll 'wait till 3' tomorrow for a technical reply..... :R

[Bols2DawaLL]

Horton , di you see this from the OP ?

I just recently purchased a 2017 Ford Explorer 4wd V6 with the class 3 towing package. The towing rating is 5,000 lbs