Forum Discussion
- Bear,
Thanks for the great conversation on propane and LNG. I wish I had enough room for a hundred gallon propane tank in my truck. But I don't so I'll just have to live with my Honda generator converted to propane and everything else in my camper propane. I have a couple of friends that have propane injection on the Dodge diesel pickups along with the diesel fuel. And you are correct it really helps their fuel mileage. The trash trucks in my town are diesel engines converted to propane. My understanding is diesel engines are relatively easy to convert. But it sounds like you have more experience in this area than I do.
I love reading about your adventures and your truck is just the balls! The issue about center of gravity was simply an observation from the pictures. I certainly know not how the weight is distributed.
I don't understand why most people don't simply extend the hitch on the trailer rather than moving the hitch point way back on the tow vehicle. Making a longer Tongue on the trailer would make it easier to backup and less sway being closer to the rear axle. And the tongue weight would be less also. I have the material sitting in the shop to extend the hitch on my enclosed motorcycle trailer. Just not enough hours in the day to get it done.
Love your BMW motorcycle! Being a past president of one of the largest BMW motorcycle clubs in America I can appreciate your bike. A great ride!
Hope to meet up someday on the road. I don't believe I'll ever go full time, but I have lived in my camper for a few months at a time. And having a motorcycle along just makes it better.
God bless you and be safe! jefe 4x4 wrote:
Jefe, I feel very honored to make your list. While I know and could add to this list, just the same I am grateful to be in a group of people that personifies the fact that they share and help so many people in furthering their enjoyment in their Truck Camper Adventures.
Bryan, my man,
I waited until our return from a 9 day trip in the N.W. to post some witty, bloviating remarks to your remarkable story.
None found.
If each of us are a couple sentences or even a paragraph in the arching Forum of life, you are a chapter.
I'm one of the few that have known of your larger story for more than a while, and I, for one am glad you have ceased to breast your cards and come fully out of the full-timer TC closet. Of course, with celebrity come expectations. My good friend The Whaz is case in point. If you're on the top of the heap, what have you done for me lately? I, being in the upper middle of the heap do not feel any pressure to make better reports or do more out of the ordinary. It's like an 80's solar farm: all the refracted light goes to the center collector. Now that's pressure.
Everyone needs a hero. Everyone.
In no particular order, and for each their various talents and ability to communicate, and their distinct way to walk the walk, these are my heroes in the hard-core RV Travel biz:
The Turtle Expedition Gary and Monica Wescott (they are my neighbors and are gone around the world so much that I rarely see them)
Tioga George (with recent heart woes, his traveling days are numbered, but he walked the walk for a very long time)
Sleepy
Whazoo
BKA
Each of these found a way to make it work with style and verve.
special regards, as always, jefe
As for walking the walk, please don’t judge me by my Duck Walk, also known as pronation.
bjefe 4x4 wrote:
Hey Jefe! Always a treat when someone stop by that has pushed the limits of their TC and to the highest heights, as well.
Bryan told me he tries to hold his diesel fuel consumption down to $400 a month.(..or is it 400 gallons a month?). His 30 day travels take this into account. So at say, 10 mpg, he can only drive, on average, what?, 1600 miles a month? YMMV.
For all you propane users out there, we have found the lowest price is typically found in July. We have a 525 gallon propane tank to run Rancho de Jefe and it will go two years on a fill up.
jefe
Starting this chapter in my life, I wanted to live a simple and modest life of adventure. One of the challenges for anyone choosing to go on long trips, or full timing in their Truck Campers is the income question. How long and how far can I go on the funds I have available. While I live very modestly, I have very little costs and keep to the budget I have set for myself. Tracking these expenditures and costs, allows me more insight on what my needs are and what my budget is and should be.
When I sold my house, I moved into an apartment while I took the time to put my project together. The rent on that apartment, excluding utilities is a figure I choose to use for my monthly budget. That way I can rationalize being on the road, otherwise I can take those same funds and just rent a house or an apartment. That number is; $750. I have lived on this monthly amount for the last 5 years.
My truck MPG is 7 to 8 MPG. I chuckle a bit when I read those of you TC owners talking about their terrible fuel mileage of 12 to 14 MPG. Oh, if you only knew. My fuel budget is take from that arbitrary number of $750. It is; $550. When Diesel goes up, I travel less. When Diesel goes down, I save that money and apply it to a time I need to travel farther. To travel a longer distance, I might linger more one month, to save those funds for the following month. My typical travel is less 400 miles, in my truck, for a 30 day period. Making choices and discovering more with less. It might work for you, or it might not.
The remaining amount, of that arbitrary number; $750, I use for groceries and miscellaneous spending. Miscellaneous spending could be saving for my recently purchased Rickson Wheels/Tires, Solar and admission to various museums or Girl Scout cookies from my granddaughter. My funds are fixed. I live within those Parameters. Keeping track of these expenditures is easier when done on a spreadsheet.
I had an interesting conversation with Sabconsulting, a few years back on groceries and budgets. I shared that I live on $150 a month and he shared; “$250 to $360, a week.” Sabconsulting added that that includes his wife Dunes, as well as they like to purchase 1 to 2 bottles of wine each week too. I have used this example often to show what my retirement is, might not be what your retirement is. That is why you should plan for yourself, not what I might be doing. I eat a lot of fish and chicken, as well as vegetables and try to buy in bulk whenever I can, like at Costco. That is where having the Service Body and Trailer really is a plus.
Now I do have health care that is subsidized by my retirement, but I pay more because I travel and am not in a preferred area. I also have costs such as Insurance (life, car, motorcycles, personal property), cell/internet, storage and satellite tv. These costs are taken before that $750 figure is made, so I do live on more than $750 a month, but those are not fluid costs like fuel, food and entertainment. I have not vehicle payments or debt, so my monthly costs are very minimal, which is a big plus when considering Fulltiming. I don’t have an ATM or Debit card and only 2 credit cards that have a small credit limit set, and easy to pay off each month. I do have an account set up, in case I do have a catastrophic event occur. In 5 years I have not touched this account.
Not staying in towns or campgrounds saves lots of money and temptation. Seeking out things like hiking, paddling and free or minimal costs museums and like locations is available and often used. I have a lifetime pass to the fee areas of the USA, as well as reduced costs for things like tours or camping, of which the National Parks is one of them. When one doesn’t have that “Golden Parachute” available, you would be surprised what you can come up with to do and enjoy.
Do your homework, planning and executing before you depart on your own great Adventure! You’ll be glad that you did.
b- I was surprised to read a post that says the propane is easily available...
that I should convert my duramax diesel/allison to propane.
Well, Janet and I have been in 49 states and much of populated canada
Propane isn't always easily available for my TC... and I seldom see it in towns of even 100,000.
I recently returned from a 7 week trip
I had to purchase propane in a U-Haul dealer in Lake Charles LA, in a hardware store in Port Isabel, TX, in a Pilot-Flying J's RV section
whats more... I was cheated in 2 of these three.
I have two 30 pound bottles... one was empty, one was about half full.
The bottles we placed on scales and weighed as they were being filled... but I was charged for 60 pounds
A 30 pound bottle actually holds 6 gallons
I was charged for 12 gallons... not the 9 gallons that I actually obtained.
They had a small sign that said " all refills are based on the full capacity of the tank... not the volume pumped
I was stiffed for $12
It's common
-------------
I live in a town that has one of the largest Dept of Energy National Laboratories (Oak Ridge)
We have electric charge stations at various places for people to charge their electric vehicles for 6 or 8 hours....
The stations are located at:
2ea at a fire station (the only place to wait on the vehicle to charge is at a Home Depot about 1/4 of a mile away.
Another is at a Childrens Museum... in a poor part of town, and 1 1'2 miles from a place to wait the 6 or 8 hours to charge...
There is not a single recharge station that would be convienient for a single person to use... and they aren't
I personally think that many of the "solutions" offered by the writer are "pie in the sky"
BTW, we find diesel readily available with our 450 mile range and 30 gallon capacity. Rbertalotto wrote:
Only thing I would change is run the truck on Propane / LP. Convert the Honda generator to Propane /LP..... One fuel for everything
His CG seems really far to the rear......Especially with trailer tongue weight.Rbertalotto wrote:
If you mean run the truck on propane, I don't think that would work with a diesel engine.
Diesel engines run beautifully on Propane / LNG. There are thousands of buses and all the diesel trash trucks in my town are on Propane.
With propane, available just about anywhere in the world, you never worry about getting "bad fuel" that could damage you engine.
The bike could be converted, it has been done, but I agree, might not make much sense. But the Honda Generator on propane is the only way to go for and engine that might not get used much. No alcohol damage issues. And it can easily be converted to run on gasoline and propane. The truck could be multifuel also.
Stay tuned....LNG and Propane will be the heavy transportation fuel of the future.........
Well, you make some good Points Roy.
But, the Cons are too many to work for a project and an Adventure like mine, Fulltiming and Extreme Boondocking (XBTC). Lets discuss, just the same.
Many of the vehicles you are mentioning are actually running off of Natural Gas (LNG) and they are gasoline engines. Gasoline Engines are much easier to convert and many fleet trucks are converting to LNG. The company ( ) that did my Propane project does just that, conversion of Fleet vehicles to Natural Gas (LNG) and Propane (PNG), the largest portion would be LNG. The biggest Fleets that are converting are ones that have round trips that are the same, much like Electric Vehicles. The limitations of availability is too massive, as well as the Liability of LNG and Propane fill stations. While Propane might be widely distributed, imagine trying to fill at a small town Propane center and they are closed and if open, their Lot Person is only available from 8 am to 10 am, as he is making home deliveries (filling) the remainder of the day and the lady behind the desk does not do it. Even though I did this filling myself, farming and driving a cab, in Boulder while moonlighting, they don’t allow it. Propane pricing varies greatly, even within the same community. Then you have the problems with storage and carrying safely large quantities, temperature gradations as well as less performance at higher altitudes. So no, Propane would not even be considered for a fuel source for a project such as mine, XBTC. Plus, one more important issue, lack of technicians in places where I travel to provide service when I would need it. “Hey, Clyde! Come over here and looka’ at this engine. This dude’s got propane hooked up to this little ole’ Ford engine. Who woulda thunk dat!”
Now, some of our Diesel F350s did have Propane injection and for the 6.0 engine that was a great option to convert. This helped cool the Diesel engines and provided great fuel economy, until you factored in the Propane. This was done on a 4 to 1 ratio, propane being the 1.
The reason I went to a larger propane tank was to extend my stay in remote areas and less worry about staying warm due to the frequent refills. I wanted to minimize refilling propane, while available many places, it is more of a headache than just driving up to a gas station in most small towns and cities. For now, it is just a nonstarter for this factor alone.
One thing I learned, with my 20+ years of amateur car racing, when you start modifying your vehicles, you create issues that multiply the problems. Personally, I would prefer to keep my truck’s engine as stock as possible. The way I travel and drive, my diesel engine performs beyond my expectations.
As for converting all my vehicles to Propane. Why in the world would I convert a BMW GSA1200R Adventure or Honda CRF450X to propane? The fuel Cell alone would be horrendous. Sorry, but the military has approached this and their answer is, Diesel/Multi-fuel. Diesel Tahoe’s, Diesel Motorcycles and on and on. Due to EPA standards many of these vehicles are not able to be used domestically. I would love to ride one of the Special Forces KLR motorcycles. I hear they are pretty awesome.
As for switching my Honda Generator. Why would I do that, when I already have an Onan Propane Generator? I believe in keeping many tools in the tool belt and putting two generators on the same fuel source, does not meet my requirements. Especially since I am already carrying the fuel for the motorcycles, which work in the generator. To refill the Propane I need to move the truck to a propane filling station that might be 100+ miles away, rather than throwing one of my Fuel Jugs onto my BMW and run to the gas station 30 miles away. Then I would have the issue of filling my motorcycles, pumps, hoses and the like. With only using 12 gallons for the entire year of 2013 (see Chart in Part II) it does not make economic sense to convert this over. Also, the Honda Generator (EU3000iS) is carried in the Trailer and would be a challenge to run a propane hose to that location (through a moving hitch and under the trailer floor?) The Onan Generator is already there, so I will just use that. The other way would to move the Honda Generator (160lbs) out of the trailer to the quick release of my gas grill, to use. The most I use the Generator now is to warm/cook something like a Baked Potato. My rule of thumb is if I will use the micro wave more than 3 min, off my battery bank, I use my generator. For me, this is just a nonstarter for me. Lifting and securing the Honda Generator for the large blocks of time I am gone hiking, riding and paddling, would create too much of a security issue. Using and keeping my Honda in the trailer works great. I never have to take it out of the trailer, even though it is on a dolly.
Now, for a weekender or someone that does not travel with 2 of everything (1 dog though), like me a XBTC, many of your suggestions I would heartily support. I agree with you, conversion of vehicles to Propane (PNG) and or Natural Gas (LNG) is really a viable solution for large populated areas. Conversions of a generator to a fuel source many TC enthusiasts are already bringing to camp, is a great solution, just because of their cleaner burning factor, on generators that sit for long times between uses. Yes, Roy, I applaud you for your suggestions and the fact that it is indeed a direction that needs to be considered by our decision makers. I just think there is a disconnect in what I am actually doing on my Adventure and your perception of what I am doing and where and how I am doing this.
I would be interested in further discussion on your comment on my Center of Gravity. This is a very important part of Truck Camping and one everyone should consider when loading and carrying a truck camper. There are certainly some scary applications out there being used every day. As for my project, the COG marking on my Lance 1191 is 2 inches in front of my rear axle. Many don’t notice my extended frame and that the TC does not go all the way to the Crew Cab, due to the Propane Cabinet (32”). Let me know what your thinking is on this COG question, so I can better understand and respond to your statement. Thanks.
On the “Tongue Weight” statement. Good catch. I wish more would understand this importance. When you consider the weight of the 245/70R 19.5” spare tire’s weight alone, we are talking some serious tongue weight here. I purposely loaded large voluminous items (Bicycles) in the front of my trailer to keep me from loading anything on the front deck. All the heavy items, Fuel Jugs, BMW, Battery Bank (460 lbs), water jugs are loaded on the axle areas of the deck or behind. Balance is important for a trailer that weighs in around 5,500 lbs. The hitch is designed and built to the specs for carrying heavy equipment, like tractors and skidsters. When checking at Cat Scales and closed Scales in Oregon n’ such, we are in good shape and under the tongue weight we were hoping for.
My last questions for Roy would be;
“Do you run your Dodge Diesel on Propane?
If not, why not?
If you do, what are the upsides you have been surprised with?”
Thanks.
bIf you mean run the truck on propane, I don't think that would work with a diesel engine.
Diesel engines run beautifully on Propane / LNG. There are thousands of buses and all the diesel trash trucks in my town are on Propane.
With propane, available just about anywhere in the world, you never worry about getting "bad fuel" that could damage you engine.
The bike could be converted, it has been done, but I agree, might not make much sense. But the Honda Generator on propane is the only way to go for and engine that might not get used much. No alcohol damage issues. And it can easily be converted to run on gasoline and propane. The truck could be multifuel also.
Stay tuned....LNG and Propane will be the heavy transportation fuel of the future.........- From what I know about what is behind the cab and in front of the camper box I can assure you that there is NO center of gravity problem.
He uses almost all solar, so an occasional use of a gas generator is really not a woe. In fact, it's a good alternative backup to his other power sources. If you mean run the truck on propane, I don't think that would work with a diesel engine. Plus, he would have to change his motorcycles over to propane if going to all one fuel. For REALLY hard-core XTC-er's that operate on a global basis, all diesel is the way to go with truck/generators/appliances as propane is only readily available and cheap in the U.S. and Canada, not in Mexico and and Sud Amerika or anywhere else for that matter. Personally, for WHERE he plies his TC, propane/gas/diesel/solar are a good lashup. But, I could be wrong.
Bryan told me he tries to hold his diesel fuel consumption down to $400 a month.(..or is it 400 gallons a month?). His 30 day travels take this into account. So at say, 10 mpg, he can only drive, on average, what?, 1600 miles a month? YMMV.
For all you propane users out there, we have found the lowest price is typically found in July. We have a 525 gallon propane tank to run Rancho de Jefe and it will go two years on a fill up.
jefe - Only thing I would change is run the truck on Propane / LP. Convert the Honda generator to Propane /LP..... One fuel for everything
His CG seems really far to the rear......Especially with trailer tongue weight. - Bryan, my man,
I waited until our return from a 9 day trip in the N.W. to post some witty, bloviating remarks to your remarkable story.
None found.
If each of us are a couple sentences or even a paragraph in the arching Forum of life, you are a chapter.
I'm one of the few that have known of your larger story for more than a while, and I, for one am glad you have ceased to breast your cards and come fully out of the full-timer TC closet. Of course, with celebrity come expectations. My good friend The Whaz is case in point. If you're on the top of the heap, what have you done for me lately? I, being in the upper middle of the heap do not feel any pressure to make better reports or do more out of the ordinary. It's like an 80's solar farm: all the refracted light goes to the center collector. Now that's pressure.
Everyone needs a hero. Everyone.
In no particular order, and for each their various talents and ability to communicate, and their distinct way to walk the walk, these are my heroes in the hard-core RV Travel biz:
The Turtle Expedition Gary and Monica Wescott (they are my neighbors and are gone around the world so much that I rarely see them)
Tioga George (with recent heart woes, his traveling days are numbered, but he walked the walk for a very long time)
Sleepy
Whazoo
BKA
Each of these found a way to make it work with style and verve.
special regards, as always, jefe GoinThisAway wrote:
I do! I use it when I am hiking down the trail. I carry my Marching Baton thrusting it up and down to the music in my head.
Hey Bryan,
I hope you made an exception to your Backpacker's Rule for the plunger you use to do your laundry ;) If not, I guess one could say you doo doo laundry :B
Phyllis
Sadly, my wooden handle one was not returned to me, when it was last borrowed. I made a new one, out of what is considered a proper plunger now, Plastic. But it works.
b
