Calling electrical gurus

[f4mdtwr]

Got an issue with the lance camper. Just before I installed the camper on the Kodiak my battery died on me because I unplugged it from the shore power and I guess something was left on. So I went ahead and replaced the battery with a brand new one. My problem is that when I unplug it from shore power I get the low battery beep and the house monitor reads that the battery low battery. Funny thing is that the battery is fully charged (12.79 volts). All my fuses are good, all my breakers are good, nothing is "on". The ACR is showing that it's charging the battery. I'm stumped. Any ideas, where do I begin looking.

[Feltonguy]

Hi Guys,
I can't for the life of me find that darn fuse holder, with the reefer, exterior lights, etc. In the Lance manuals they state it's under the sink. In looking at f4md Pics, they match my set up exactly with the exception of the fuses. Same set up in the bathroom. Any ideas where they might have put my fuses holder?

[f4mdtwr]

Wnjj,

The docking lights were not on without the 20A fuse, coinsidence that the picture without the fuse and the picture with the new docking lights followed each other. The new LED docking lights have a 20A fuse protecting the circuit.

The 20A fuse did not blow when the old docking lights were on, not even with the short present. Not sure why, but it did not blow… Although a different fuse did blow and I am not sure why. That was the fuse that was in the bathroom under the sink, that was a 10A fuse not sure where that goes.

Again, thanks to everyone who chimed in with ideas… Now it's on to the next project

[wnjj]

f4mdtwr wrote:
Update

I found the issue with my electrical… actually had a buddy of mine help me, I was lost and frustrated. After cross checking things, it turned out that i had issues.

1) Docking lights were shorting out, removed both both OE docking lights to find the driver side burnt and causing short. This was also causing the buzzing/humming sound at the fuse box.

so since I had both of the OE light fixtures out, I replaced them with Pro Comps square LED off road lights… Man this thing light up the deck and the back of the rig…

2) issue was the relay or circuit breaker in the bath under the lavatory


Fixed both of these areas and BAM!!! all is good. Battery is charging, no more buzzing sound. I am a happy camper (no pun intended)

Thanks for everyones input, it really help.

Thanks for getting back to the thread. Success is always welcome news! The new lights look good.

Do your dock lights work without that 20A fuse installed? If so, somebody rewired it and you need to fix that ASAP. If somebody jumpered around that fuse then the only protection for the dock light wiring are the much too large circuit breakers.

The shorted lights should have blown the 20A fuse. I had a similar issue on tractor rear work lights where the blade connectors inside the lights were loose and getting VERY hot. I found them after the fuse blew for second time in a matter of minutes. The lights still worked but were pulling far too much current. I field fixed them by crimping the connector edges down tighter.

The buzzing relay was because when the lights tried to turn on the load was so high that the bad circuit breaker would drop too much voltage, causing the relay to open again.

[f4mdtwr]

Update

I found the issue with my electrical… actually had a buddy of mine help me, I was lost and frustrated. After cross checking things, it turned out that i had issues.

1) Docking lights were shorting out, removed both both OE docking lights to find the driver side burnt and causing short. This was also causing the buzzing/humming sound at the fuse box. Here>>>

so since I had both of the OE light fixtures out, I replaced them with Pro Comps square LED off road lights… Man this thing light up the deck and the back of the rig…





Pretty bad photo of the lights on…



2) issue was the relay or circuit breaker in the bath under the lavatory

Here>>>



the breaker closest to you.

Fixed both of these areas and BAM!!! all is good. Battery is charging, no more buzzing sound. I am a happy camper (no pun intended)

Thanks for everyones input, it really help.

[wnjj]

f4mdtwr wrote:
Wnjj,

So that relay is no good?

It's probably just fine. The voltage getting to it is probably not at 12V. Did you check the voltages on both posts on the breaker with all of the big black wires yet?

[f4mdtwr]

Wnjj,

So that relay is no good?

[wnjj]

f4mdtwr wrote:
The beep is coming from the LP detector, but the buzzing/vibration is coming from the docking light fuse. Why? Is the question. This only happens when the shore power is disconnected.

In case it got lost in my huge post, the buzzing is a relay with much less than the needed 12V applied to the coil.

[wnjj]

Here's what I can see from the pictures. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong.

picture 1) Like the poster above, the green light means the charger is "on". Depending upon what the green light is doing, it is in a different charge mode. http://www.progressivedyn.com/charge_wizard_9105.html

picture 2) The running lights are 100% independent of the charger and house lights. The docking lights look like they are controlled by relays from either the reverse lights on the truck or the switch on the camper. Either way the power comes through that missing dock light fuse. Are the dock lights actually working, even with shore power connected? The vibration you feel is probably a breaker or relay that is cycling rapidly (i.e. not working).

EDIT: The vibration is almost surely the relay closest to the breaker. With shore power disconnected, you're probably getting a really low voltage to the relay coil and it's not able to fully engage. Once you provide shore power there is enough to pull the relay all the way closed. In either case your docks lights shouldn't work without the 20A fuse in slot #2.

The 2-pin device with all of the large black wires is a self-resetting breaker. The single black wire comes from the battery disconnect (master) switch. The other large wires on the right side go to your load center (for all of the interior lights, radio, etc), fridge, converter, jack controller and probably solar and/or generator starter. I'm guessing the smaller black wire from the missing dock light fuse (#2) is also connected where those large ones are.

The 2 black cubes with the red, green, white, black and blue wires are the relays for the dock lights. Are they what is vibrating or the breaker with the big wires? Either one would make the fuse panel seem to rattle since they're all bolted down to the same plywood. If you want to eliminate the dock lights as the cause, you can pull those pin headers off the relays temporarily.

pictures 3-4) The spare fuse in the toilet paper compartment looks like an add-on. The smaller wire comes from the what seems to be the 12V battery wire. Does the other end go somewhere like a battery warming blanket or ??? Follow the wire if you need to know but either way I don't think that fuse is the issue.


The easiest way to narrow this down is to leave the shore power disconnected and then start tracing the +12V from the battery with your meter. It looks to me (assuming from what I see in the pictures), that it comes from the battery box, through a breaker, then the cut-off switch then up to the main breaker which spreads out to the various loads. Check for 12V at each of these places with ground connected to the battery (or a wire inside known to connect to the battery -). The ground should be a white wire the same size as all of the large black ones. I see them connected to the ground bar at the bottom of picture #2.

Let me also ask one dumb question: Do you have the battery polarity correct? White is ground (neg) and black is 12V (pos).

Starting at page 94 here there are wiring diagrams showing a lot of detail.


EDIT: Based upon the vibrating relay, my guess is you will find very low voltage on the clump of black wires with shore power disconnected, especially if you turn on the dock light switch. If it's also low on the single black wire, the battery disconnect switch is suspect. You can jumper across the back of it for testing purposes. If the single wire is at 12V, the breaker is bad and needs replaced. You should also cycle the battery disconnect switch a few times to be sure it's seated well.

[f4mdtwr]

Did I mentioned I hate electrical?

[time2roll]

You need to start poking on those wires to check voltage.
That wizard is just saying power is available to charge but has no idea if a battery is connected.

[f4mdtwr]

The beep is coming from the LP detector, but the buzzing/vibration is coming from the docking light fuse. Why? Is the question. This only happens when the shore power is disconnected.

[towpro]

This device above the fuse block sure looks like a circuit beaker to me.
the LS wire might go to battery positive, and wires on other post probably go to all the interior stuff. One of them on the RS is also probably going to the House charger.
What is the voltage tested on both sides of this device? (red lead of meter to this device, black lead of meter to ground).

f4mdtwr wrote:
Update...

Took some pictures of what I'm seeing...


Second is the fuse box for the exterior lights.




Thoughts....

[jimh406]

I don't know about a low battery beep. I've never heard of one in an RV. I would look into an lp detector beep. 🙂 You could disconnect it or pull the fuse to determine if that is where the noise is coming from.

[f4mdtwr]

Update...

Took some pictures of what I'm seeing...

First: this is the device that is showing the charger is charging



Second is the fuse box for the exterior lights.



Funny thing about this fuse holder is that it vibrates when I remove the shore power and turn on the docking lights, why do you suppose this happens? Another things... It does not vibrate when the shore power is on.

Next is a fuse I found inside the camper and inside the toilet paper compartment. This fuse is connected to the master house switch that is in the battery compartment. The fuse was blown, changed the fuse. Now waiting to see what happens.





Thoughts....