Cost of a new EPDM roof?

[Photog101]

OK, it has been a month since I have had a chance to get any estimates on getting new EPDM roof on my TC. I am in the middle of a restoration on my TC and having a tree limb come through the roof, last month, just hastened a new roof.

Has anyone had a membrane roof renewed on a TC? I am curious as to a price and how long it took. Does anyone know of a good shop ... preferably in Michigan ... that does roofs? I have three appointments set up for later this week and would like to have some idea if they are close.

Mine will take about 19'-21', long, of material. I know that everything has to be stripped off the roof, the moldings and hardware removed, the old rubber removed, the wood inspected and replaced as necessary and possibly insulation. Then the new membrane laid down, glued in place and all the roof fittings replaced.

I know it is labor intensive and the labor will be higher than the materials. I used to work on RVs before I was forced to retire with health and joint problems. We used to ballpark the estimate at about $110.00- $125.00/ running foot plus any extra work that had to be done. We could kick them out, with two men in about 30 hours for each man. AND these were 35-38' motor-homes. I remember four that I worked on and it was not all that bad, inside a shop.

So I know what needs to be done, I just don't know how much the pricing has changed since the 1990's.

[Photog101]

I finally got my camper up to Fun-n-Sun in Ludington, three weeks ago. Don, the serviceman, told me that there were a couple ahead of me and that it would be three to four weeks until it was ready. Last Wednesday Don called and told me that the camper was ready. I could not get anyone to give me a ride until today and they were ok with the wait.

I must say that I was pleasantly pleased with the new roof. They replaced the entire wooden underlayment, rather than just the one piece that the tree branch went through. It is solid now. New fittings on the roof, to include a new bathroom lighted fan vent.

We discussed that all edges were taped before the membrane was laid down. He even moved my stack vents away from the roof rack so that it will be easier to change them in the future, if they get broken or beat up by the sun.

The best thing about they job was the excellent job that he did on the interior. Be matched the ceiling fabric perfectly. This is a 1997 model and we both were concerned that it would not be able to get a color match ... but it is perfect.

I also had three estimates before I took it to Fun-n-Sun. General RV gave me an estimate of over $8000.00 and then wanted $80.00 just for the estimate. They told me that there was going to be a charge AFTER they started to look at my camper. It will be a cold day at the center of this earth before I EVER step foot on any General RV lot. I also got an estimate from Camping World and they were just a little higher than Fun-n-Sun. The thing that sold me on Fun-n-Sun was not just the price, but the amount of time that they spent with me on the phone and working with me on the time factor. (I had an illness and finally a death in the family) But 4 months after they gave me the estimate, they honored their price ... plus they made sure that the roof was done perfectly. New fittings that they had not included on the original estimate, replacing the entire wood enderlayment, and the icing on the cake was that they replaced the bathroom lighted fan vent. Doing the job above and beyond is putting it mildly.

I drove driving rain and high winds all the way from Lansing to the house, probably 100 miles, and checked the interior when I parked in the drive. Dry as a bone on the inside.

I must say that if there is anyone that needs a new roof installed and is willing to go to Ludington, MI., Fun-n-Sun is the place to have it done.

Finally thanx to Travelnutz for letting me know about Fun-n-Sun and Don.

[travelnutz]

Well, it's no secret that TPO is very good stuff for RV roofs. So was the one piece (no seams) aluminum sheet painted white and wrapped around a short distance down the side wall. Both will last longer than most RV's or longer than one will own the RV. Both are easily patched. Both, while being a best possible choice, are very expensive and best to have as OEM on an RV as you can basically forget about ever replacing them short of an accident, a tree or large branch falling on it, or a tornado/hurricane which would mean you first finding the RV or what's left of it to attempt any repair!

Then we get to replacing the roof material on a 10-15+ year old RV that may have a rubber membrane or other second best material as OEM or even a layered on aftermarket coating. Without insurance paying the bill, a big decision looms as whether to spend perhaps twice as much + to put the best on an old RV as how long will the old RV be viable for use or how long before you sell it and will you ever get any or much of your extra money spent back when selling it or junking it?

Most insurance adjusters would TOTAL a 10-15+ year old RV with a replacement required roof etc except for with the very high end RV units. More so if it had to pay to re-roof a mid level or low end RV with anything like TPO or one piece aluminum sheet. Even if replacing a rubber membrane with another rubber membrane with it's high labor cost and other supplies needed like re-decking etc would be very iffy to have done at a repair facility due to the costs. Insurance companies aren't stupid and have formula's they work with and what they will need to spend to replace the RV with a close year RV same type of model they can find on the wholesale etc market, which rules or just total it and cut a check for their calculated value minus the deductible. There are some maverick cases but they are few and far between.

To begin with, rubber membranes only have a warranteed life when new of 12 years and a 10 year old OEM roof means it's life cycle is 80+% exhausted. 15 years old is over 100% of expected life cycle already gone. An insurance company sure has a argument and they have all the marbles and you are hoping to get some of them. I wouldn't bet on high success unless the existing roof looks to be in excellent condition upon adjustment inspection as if it's been covered much of it's life or kept inside out and out of the sun.

[sleepy]

I really do understand the difference between the two.

Basically one is a very strong sheet material that is almost impossable to puncture or tear... that doesn't have any plasticisors to off gas,that can be formed with heat if required... it can also be welded. TPO... lifetime is very long

The other has placticisors (Pthalates) that off gas and get brittle over time... that you mop, ot brush, or squeege and looks like thick paint, and well yes acts like thick paint. EDPM... the hotter the sun the shorter the life.

I can explain the process with chemical formula if you wish... most of my life I worked in a large national lab... and actually remember the time before plastics.

When you think rubber... think cracks in the sidewalls of tires as they age.

I will agree that EDPM is cheaper.

[gitpicker2009]

Sleepy, the one I resealed was my first rv, a 1997 class A Fleetwood Jamboree Rally.

You really might want to check out: http://www.epdmcoatings.com/whyepdm.html

There's a very thorough explanation of the differences between a TPO, which is thermoelastic and EPDM cross linked polymer rubber.

This stuff is used to seal entire rooftops on buildings and is very very durable and remain more flexible.
From the tech part of the site:


The industry has for a long time been trying to come up with a cure mechanism for cross linking EPDM polymers. In 1990, one such polymer was developed and later made available commercially. This has resulted in the development and worldwide sales of Liquid rubber ( Liquid EPDM). The chemistry used in developing the liquid version is similar to the chemistry used to develop a single EPDM rubber ply sheet. The major advantages and differences are in the cure mechanism and a pendant group which is grafted on the polymer chain.



EPDM Liquid Rubber cured films have excellent weather ability. Also, they aren't thermoplastic which means they can be able to withstand high temperatures of up to 300° F and still remain flexible at temperatures as low as -62° F. Cured films are also resistance to polar solvents, acids and alkalis. They can also cope with total water immersion for an indefinite time period.

The Firestone site which manufactures both EPDM and TPO gives them both extremely high marks for durability and resistance to weather.
I'm not championing either, I'm just trying to clarify that this stuff is NOT a paint.
I only suggested it as an easy to apply, very cost efficient method of resealing a roof.

Here's a link to the Firestone site, with both if you'd like:
http://firestonebpco.com/roofing/epdm-roofing-systems/

Anthony

[sleepy]

gitpicker2009 wrote:
Sleepy, this is not paint. It's liquid EPDM rubber, the exact stuff used on your roof now.
It's very thick, like self leveling caulk. You spread it with a squeegee, and when it dries, it's an actual rubber roof. Just thought I'd clear it up.
Life expectancy is ten years.

Anthony

No, no... my roof is TPO... life expectancy indefinate... I probably won't need it after more than 30 years... I plan on slowing down when I pass a hundred years old.

TPO has no milky streaks from oxidized rubber (EDPM) paint

TPO doen't constamtly degrade due to oxidation

TPO isn't hurt by the sun....

TPO won't every need to be replaced.

BTW... how old is the camper that is in need of EDPM replacement / repair... less than 10 years old?

I notice in your profile that you have been camping since 2009.

[gitpicker2009]

Sleepy, this is not paint. It's liquid EPDM rubber, the exact stuff used on your roof now.
It's very thick, like self leveling caulk. You spread it with a squeegee, and when it dries, it's an actual rubber roof. Just thought I'd clear it up.
Life expectancy is ten years.

Anthony

[Photog101]

Sleepy, I wished that I had carbon fiber. I can use all the reduction in weight that I can get.

[sleepy]

There are several types of TPO...

My TPO roof doesn't have a backing... it is thick, white on top and black on the backside. It is held around the edges and by the vents, A/C etc. I think that self leveling Parbond can ce used at joints like between the front of the cabover and the roof. I'll confirm my parbond statement later if you need it.

Bob Mehrer at Snowriver used a TPO with a fuzzy felt on the back... they glued it down. Makes a very nice job... I watched them install a roof on a new camper. His crew even took a router and rooled the edges of the roof befor installing the TPO

Lance was using the Glue down type the last time I was at the factory.

The glue down type has another advantage... it is lighter in weight and the TPO cross link structure strengthens the roofs structure when the camper is trying to twist and flexing.

I'd like to have my whole camper made out of carbon fiber or TPO

[bedrocker]

Well you can do what my redneck neighbor
did he painted the whole top of his trailer
with Henrys roof tar 😞
It wasn't pretty

[Photog101]

Sleepy, I have to agree about painting roofs old roofs. I have done a couple that the owners insisted on painting the roofs of their coaches. They looked clean and new .... but nothing looks better than a new membrane lying flat on the roof. For the amount of use that they gave their coaches, it was worth it to them, as they did not have any problems (I guess I did a good prep job).

Personally I am still at a cross roads with TPO. When I was working (ya I know dinosaurs were still walking the earth) TPO was having some difficulties with their initial offerings. I have had good luck with EPDM and like they say if it ain't broke don't fix it. But that is my personal preference. I will ask the estimators about their thoughts on the newer materials when I take it to them.

I would like to thank travelnutz for the PM and enblethem for the pricing information. Sleepy and Silversand for the TPO information, as I will look into it. Finally Gitpicker2009, thanks for the return to memory lane on the coating jobs that I did back in the 90's.

Damn I like this board.

[sleepy]

By the time most people know that they need a roof repair there is damage to the structure... rot, mold, etc.

I have never seen a painted on roof that lasts very long.... if it allows moisture to weep under voids, cracks, SCRATCHes the rot in the roof will be enough to doom the camper. When EDPM Oxidizes the surface washes away as a white milky looking mess... over time it all washes away and you'll be asking the same questions again.

TPO dosen't have seams... you can roll out a piece 60 foot long if you want.

Remember when the plastic dash boards in vehicles would crack as the pthlates (the chemical that has the new car smell) dried out.

TPO doesn't have pthlates and it doesn't oxidize.

Do it once and do it right. You have a $100,000 invested in your truck and TC if you bought them new.

Would you paint a thin coat of rubber on the roof of your house and expect it to last?

[gitpicker2009]

Photog, you really should consider this:

http://www.epdmcoatings.com/rv_roof_repair.html

I used it to repair and completely reseal the old roof on my class A.
Cost about 300 bucks and that was enough to completely redo a 36 foot roof.
This is the same liquid EPDM rubber roof material that the RV manufacturers use.
It can be purchased in rolls, as they do, but it can also be applied like paint.
It rolls out like thick honey, and is self leveling.
The best part is, you cover the whole roof, seams, etc. No more leaks.
It's like a brand new, one piece roof. Took me one half day to do the whole coach (they even used pictures of my coach on their website- it's the one with the barn in the background with a green X) The before and after pics speak for themselves.
I was quoted 7 grand by the dealer to remove the old roof and install a new one.
This process cost me 300 bucks and half a day. You have to clean the roof, let it dry, and then just roll it out like thick paint.
Amazing stuff.

Of course, all this assuming that the roof is structurally sound, and just needs a new EPDM waterproof coating.

Anthony

[enblethen]

It runs about $100 per foot. There is not much difference in cost between EDPM and Brite tek TPO roof. I had mine replaced on MH. Shop that did work removed a replaced the old Luan ply, sealed joints and leveled roof prior to installing.

[silversand]

I agree with Sleepy:

Look VERY, very closely at TPO specs, and compare them very closely to EPDM rubber. TPO is a far more robust product. I have a relative (a rubber/plastics/coatings development scientist in the biz for 50+ years) look into TPO vs. rubber, and TPO (properly installed) offers numerous advantages.

After our research, we bought a camper with a TPO roof (properly installed: I know, because I was at the truck camper factory watching their install of a roof on the same camper), and today, 9 years later, our roof looks like the the day it was built. I'm anal at keeping the roof membrane clean. I inspect our roof once a month during truck camper season, and have done so the entire 9 years of ownership. Based on our roof's appearance today, I would estimate it's life to go at least another 5 years.

Caveat: I did drop a 10-lb tree cutter hardened steel cutting head onto our camper roof many years ago, from 20 feet up. The razor-sharp cutter head put only a deep impression into the TPO about 3/16th long, and crazed the TPO 3 inches lateral of the 1st impact (but no puncture) both of which I patched anyway.

Remember: the TPO has to be installed properly (replete with 3/16th thick roofing felt over the roof decking), and side rolled over the edge of the roof (like Sleepy notes, and like we have; not seamed on top), and properly stretched and fastened down. The last time I was at IKEA in early November (the store is about the size of 4 football fields) I noted that their TPO roof (installed 15+ years ago) looked like it was installed the day before I saw it. I could see a ~30,000 sq/ft section of their roof from the window at their 2nd floor restaurant...

Cost? No idea. It can't be cheap, for sure. Only a hand-full of RV manufacturers use TPO (Lance is one of them; so was Outfitter {but now Outfitter has a fiberglass roof}). We should actually have a running list of truck camper manufacturers, in this Forum, that build with TPO roof systems. Personally, a TPO roof membrane would be a weighting of 35 (out of 100) in our decision to buy a new camper (in the deal-breaker category!). Structure build would weight 45, and interior layout would weight a 20 (most truck camper interiors are very similar in cross-competitive models, and truck camper makers are mostly open to doing interior mods at the factory, thus the lower interior layout weighting).