Damage after a tire blow out

[makavas]

Hello,

Just wanted to start of by saying i'm brand new to travel trailers and have been learning lots in the past 2 weeks. Me and my girlfriend purchased 2013 Jayco Jay Flight SLX so we went out last week dry camping had a great time. Did the same thing this weekend and on the way home our tire literally blew and damaged the trailer. Tires looked new so have no idea what would be the cause (not weight) maybe we ran something over. Anyways, I'm hoping someone can lead me in the right direction fixing this.. what materials I would need etc. or I shouldn't even attempt this my self. Please advise and thank you for all the help!

Please see pictures,

[gmw_photos]

It's true Larry, any brand of tire can suffer a failure. What we might want to look at is trends, and why the trends occur. Unfortunately from our positions here, it's hard ( or impossible ) to get real fleet wide data. So all we can do is see if we can understand trends from what little anecdotal evidence we see. And personal experience. And that personal experience ( of our own and others ) is possibly our most used tool.

[LarryJM]

gmw photos wrote:
Note to the original poster: everybody is beating around the bush here. Let's cut to the chase: junk the crummy ST tires, and do not replace them with yet more junk ST tires. Buy LT tires, and then go drive at normal highway speeds, and not worry.
Lets make it simple:
ST= junk
LT = good

EDIT: if those are the typical 205/75-14, then what I did was went to a 185-14 Kumho 857. This a commercial LT tire, in a load range D, that is marketed for trailer use also. Tire rack sells them. They work well.

I had to laugh at your EDIT comment:E I see no problems with ST tires and let me share my "experieces" re you specific reference to the Kumho 185-14 tire. From 1995 until 2013 I ran exclusively GY Marathon radials in size 205R75x14 on two different trailers with them loaded to within about 100bs of their max carrying load for well in excess of 75K miles total. I consistently had 6800 to 6900 lbs on the two axles of these two trailers. That's over 18 years of exclusive use. During that time I NEVER HAD A TREAD SEPARATE and only had one "flat" which I discovered at a CG just before leaving. In 2013 I decided to go to Aluminum rims and also switched over to the Load range "D" Kumho 185R14 tires. Last year with just over 4K miles I had one of the Kumhos experience a tread separation:E My spare was one of my old GY Marathons so I put that on and at my first opportunity during our road trip at the time bought another GY Marathon from a WM along our route and that night replaced the remaining Kumho on that side of the trailer with the New GY Marathon. When I got home I bought a 5th Aluminum rim and another GY Marathon and am now running two GY Marathons on one side and two Kumhos on the other side. Evidently either Kumho quite making or don't have available here the 1895R14 tires anymore since no one sells them that I could find.

Just because I had the only "TIRE TREAD" failure on basically a new tire which was an "LT" and not one of the often called junk "ST" tire bombs in a span of some 18 years I'm not going to blame this on it being an LT tire.

At my next tire change out my plans are to give the Kumhos one more chance and in fact will go up one size to the 205R14 tire since those will just fit and I will keep two GY Marathon spares so I I ever have a flat on the road or ruin a tire I can at least replace both tires on that side with the same sized tires.

Larry

[PaulJ2]

gmw photos wrote:
Would you care to enlighten me in an engineering sense why a ST tire "cannot be fitted to a passenger car or truck" ? What, specifically is it about the tire that makes it unsuitable for use on a vehicle other than a trailer ?

Liability maybe? Ya think?

[gmw_photos]

^^^^^ well said H-dog.

EDIT.....and with all that, I'm betting the mods are about to put this one to bed :B ( again... )

[Huntindog]

Walaby wrote:

gmw photos wrote:
Who knows....for them, they may decide the ST is what they want to run. But at least they have been given the suggestion to look a little deeper at the whole process of selection. After all....tires are pretty important.

One thing we can all agree on hopefully is the importance of correct inflation.

So, as a newbie, I have been reading this thread with great interest, and performing my own, independent (off this website) research (as suggested). From what I have read, yes, you can indeed run LT tires on a trailer, given they are properly matched load wise, and you select an LT tire that has at LEAST the same load rating as the ST the OEM originally equipped the trailer with.

If a manufacturer alters the vehicle he is required to disclose that, even if the alteration still meets or exceeds the standards. So, yes, the manufacturer would seem to be able to switch tires from ST to LT, but would have to disclose that, and I believe update the labeling accordingly. Can't just do it without disclosing it.

Having said that, and assuming, for the sake of argument, that one still intends to keep speed at 65, and one intends on buying a quality ST tire, what would the advantage of LT vs ST be? My still open for debate thoughts are
There is currently only one ST tire that enjoys a decent reputation. That is the Maxxis.
But Maxxis has a major drawback. Availability.

Post after post on here where they have to be ordered.... Since any tire can suffer a road hazard and need replacing at any time, then this can possibly leave one stranded waiting for a replacement.
This won't happen with an LT tire. They are available everywhere.

(1) Potentially able to exceed 65MPH, if necessary, and not exceed the speed rating of the tire. I totally get that ST tires could prematurely fail by exceeding the rated speed. But, reading some of these posts, I worry that I exceeded 65 for a couple hundred yards, and now Im running on borrowed time. It's really a factor of tire temp, and running higher speeds heat the tires up over time. I've read if you increase the pressure of the ST tire, you can run them over 65. I wouldn't but.... In fact, Im comfortable towing at 65 and enjoy that speed, so no need to exceed it, unless briefly due to traffic situatins.Every time you exceed 65 on an ST tire, you are damaging it. This damage is cumulative, and can be hastened by heat, and even slight underinflation... It is also hidden inside the tire. You cannot see it or feel it.
Personnally, I do not feel it wise to run any piece of equipment close to it's max continuously.
Many other industries feel the same way. I remember from flight school many years ago that aircraft engines were not to be run at max for long.. IIRC it was recommended not to exceed 2/3s throttle for long.

(2) Perhaps longer lasting tires? ST's are recommended to be replaced after 3 years, regardless of miles. Could one get more than 3 years use out of LT's, running on a trailer? Would you want to replace even LT's after 3 years?
LTs will last longer. I replace mine at 5 years.. And I am in Phoenix AZ, about as tough a place for tires as there is. Michelin says you can go longer. I sell my great looking used LT tires on Craigs list to help defer the cost of the new ones.


What other advantages would there be to switching to LT's?
No tire problems compared to STs.. Often you read about all of the precautions one must take with ST tires... It's as if they are made of China... But the TT tires follow the LT tires on my truck, yet my Truck tires just do the job reliably with out all the tender loving treatment we are told is necessary with STs.

If you were to read the testing requirements for LT tires vs. ST tires, you will see the difference for yourself


There are, no doubt, inferior/junk ST tires. There are also inferior/junk LT tires. There are good ST tires (from what I've read) as well. Not all ST tires are junk.

Now this is where you are pretty much dead wrong.
LT tires, especially in the 16" rim size are available in many different price points and quality levels. Many from the same manufacturer.
But most manufacturers that make ST tires only make one. An entry level cheap one. They call it affordable.

Still learning, with an open mind.

Mike

[Huntindog]

93Cobra2771 wrote:
I'd be willing to bet there are no tire manufacturers recommending LT tires over ST tires for trailer applications. Legally speaking, makes no sense for them to do so.

Out of curiosity, which fifth wheel manufacturers are supplying their product with LT tires? Seems like that would be a legal issue in the case of a blowout/wreck "X product was delivered from the factory with non trailer tires and caused X incident". Not saying that has happened, just trying to make sense of it.

Just throwing that out there, as it seems odd to me.

Did you know that a lot of high end TTs offer LT tires, as either standard or optional equipment?

Have you ever read the testing requirements for ST tires vs. LT tires?
This would be a real eye opener for you. The ST tire proponents never like to bring this up.... They really cannot explain it well enough to convince most people... Heck I think it even gives them some self doubt about their hard fought position... But of course, pride keeps them from admitting as much.

[Firehawvvk]

I'm still a relative newbie here and really appreciate the back and forth you all provide to give some insight into this topic. Some of you might remember my first post as it was about tires. My brand new trailer blew a tire on the way home from dealership after taking delivery. I ended up buying four new tires from a local dealer in town who knows his product quite well as I have purchased at least five sets of tire from him over the years.
I just like picking up a tidbit here and there and trying to muddle through a lot of stuff I deem inconsequential to my agenda, Thanks again to everyone.

[Walaby]

gmw photos wrote:
Who knows....for them, they may decide the ST is what they want to run. But at least they have been given the suggestion to look a little deeper at the whole process of selection. After all....tires are pretty important.

One thing we can all agree on hopefully is the importance of correct inflation.

So, as a newbie, I have been reading this thread with great interest, and performing my own, independent (off this website) research (as suggested). From what I have read, yes, you can indeed run LT tires on a trailer, given they are properly matched load wise, and you select an LT tire that has at LEAST the same load rating as the ST the OEM originally equipped the trailer with.

If a manufacturer alters the vehicle he is required to disclose that, even if the alteration still meets or exceeds the standards. So, yes, the manufacturer would seem to be able to switch tires from ST to LT, but would have to disclose that, and I believe update the labeling accordingly. Can't just do it without disclosing it.

Having said that, and assuming, for the sake of argument, that one still intends to keep speed at 65, and one intends on buying a quality ST tire, what would the advantage of LT vs ST be? My still open for debate thoughts are

(1) Potentially able to exceed 65MPH, if necessary, and not exceed the speed rating of the tire. I totally get that ST tires could prematurely fail by exceeding the rated speed. But, reading some of these posts, I worry that I exceeded 65 for a couple hundred yards, and now Im running on borrowed time. It's really a factor of tire temp, and running higher speeds heat the tires up over time. I've read if you increase the pressure of the ST tire, you can run them over 65. I wouldn't but.... In fact, Im comfortable towing at 65 and enjoy that speed, so no need to exceed it, unless briefly due to traffic situatins.

(2) Perhaps longer lasting tires? ST's are recommended to be replaced after 3 years, regardless of miles. Could one get more than 3 years use out of LT's, running on a trailer? Would you want to replace even LT's after 3 years?

What other advantages would there be to switching to LT's?

There are, no doubt, inferior/junk ST tires. There are also inferior/junk LT tires. There are good ST tires (from what I've read) as well. Not all ST tires are junk.

Still learning, with an open mind.

Mike

[gmw_photos]

JIMNLIN wrote:

I'd be willing to bet there are no tire manufacturers recommending LT tires over ST tires for trailer applications. Legally speaking, makes no sense for them to do so.

legally speaking you would lose that bet.
You must be a new guy to the trailer towing world. I was a new guy also....many years ago.
Before the tire makers came up with a ST tire OEM tires on our trailers were light truck and passenger car tires.
And before the net RV trailers came OEM with LT tires

I have Emails from Michelin/BFG/Cooper/Goodyear/Bridgestone all recommending a particular line of LT tires for trailer use and we get a full mfg warranty just like we always have.

There are no legal issues/no vehicle code violations regarding using a P or LT on a trailer as long as it meets or exceeds the trailers axles ratings or the trailers registered gross weight if a state enforces such.

Yes sir, you would be right. He would lose that bet.

Let's look for instance at the Kumho 857. The tire is described on the Kumho website as being be designed and built for commercial light trucks, van and trailer use.

And to SprinklerMans post about his trailer manual stating that LT tires are appropriate for use, that is also in the manual for my LoadMax equipment trailer as well as my Titan and Kieffer Built horse trailers.

This is the same old tired argument that ST tire proponents launch every single time this comes up.

But again, hopefully the new folks to the forum can look past it and do some research and reading and come to their own conclusions as to what might work best for them and their trailer. Who knows....for them, they may decide the ST is what they want to run. But at least they have been given the suggestion to look a little deeper at the whole process of selection. After all....tires are pretty important.

One thing we can all agree on hopefully is the importance of correct inflation.

[JIMNLIN]

I'd be willing to bet there are no tire manufacturers recommending LT tires over ST tires for trailer applications. Legally speaking, makes no sense for them to do so.

legally speaking you would lose that bet.
You must be a new guy to the trailer towing world. I was a new guy also....many years ago.
Before the tire makers came up with a ST tire OEM tires on our trailers were light truck and passenger car tires.
And before the net RV trailers came OEM with LT tires

I have Emails from Michelin/BFG/Cooper/Goodyear/Bridgestone all recommending a particular line of LT tires for trailer use and we get a full mfg warranty just like we always have.

There are no legal issues/no vehicle code violations regarding using a P or LT on a trailer as long as it meets or exceeds the trailers axles ratings or the trailers registered gross weight if a state enforces such.

[SprinklerMan]

I am sitting here with page 14 of my owners manual . Its the section on tires and weights etc . I scanned the page but I havent figured how to put it up on site .

So I will quote the first 3 sentenances from my 2006 sunset creek travel trailer by sunnybrook.

" Tires for light trucks have other markings besides those found on the sidewalls of passanger tires.

LT - Indicates the the tire is for light trucks or trailers
ST- Indicates the tire is for trailer use only . "

This is word for word from my owners manual . That LT tires are for light trucks OR trailers . I will gladly email the page to someone who knows how to post these I have it in both pdf and a picture .

[gmw_photos]

Would you care to enlighten me in an engineering sense why a ST tire "cannot be fitted to a passenger car or truck" ? What, specifically is it about the tire that makes it unsuitable for use on a vehicle other than a trailer ?

[4X4Dodger]

dodge guy wrote:
You guys do know that most of the large, heavy, full time fifth wheels come standard with LT tires! Even some TH's come standard with them. If I could've gotten a set of LT "E" tires in a 15" size I would have. I would have to go to a 16" rim to get an "E" rated LT tire. I'm happy with my Carlisle ST's and will continue to use them.

There is nothing wrong with an LT tire on a trailer. Carlisles facts are a bit biased though, as they want you to buy their trailer tires!

If you will read the Carlisle information you would see that some ST tires come with an "LT" printed on them. This is a LOAD RANGE designation NOT the type of tires.

From the Carlisle paper:

"– An "LT" designation, when shown on a trailer tire size specifies load range only, it is not designed for use on light trucks"

To the Thread at large:

I find it amazing that people who would never think of questioning the engineering and scientific facts of lets say Rocket Design feel that they are better equipped to decide what is "right" than the design engineers who make their living at designing tires for specific applications.

[4X4Dodger]

dodge guy wrote:
You guys do know that most of the large, heavy, full time fifth wheels come standard with LT tires! Even some TH's come standard with them. If I could've gotten a set of LT "E" tires in a 15" size I would have. I would have to go to a 16" rim to get an "E" rated LT tire. I'm happy with my Carlisle ST's and will continue to use them.

There is nothing wrong with an LT tire on a trailer. Carlisles facts are a bit biased though, as they want you to buy their trailer tires!

Your logic is completely faulty. Carlisle also makes Passenger tires and truck tires..so what exactly is the point?

The point is ST tires are DESIGNED for the job they do and the MFG want you to have a good experience with their product...THEREFORE they urge you to use the right one.

[gmw_photos]

dodge guy wrote:
You guys do know that most of the large, heavy, full time fifth wheels come standard with LT tires! Even some TH's come standard with them. If I could've gotten a set of LT "E" tires in a 15" size I would have. I would have to go to a 16" rim to get an "E" rated LT tire. I'm happy with my Carlisle ST's and will continue to use them.

There is nothing wrong with an LT tire on a trailer. Carlisles facts are a bit biased though, as they want you to buy their trailer tires!

You're never, ever, going to convince the ST tire believers that LT tires are a good choice on a trailer. That is the only one truism about tire threads. It does no good to point out them, as I have before that LT tires are fitted as standard, or optional on various trailers ( campers, like Airstream, various horse trailers, equipment trailers, etc ). Those who believe ST are superior will go on believing that.

The only reason I still participate in these threads is because there is a constant influx of new members to our community here, and I hope to get the message across to them they would do well to research it "for themselves" so they can make an informed decision for their own use.

Some of us have learned these lessons the hard way over the years of many tens of thousands of miles of towing various kinds of trailers. We're simply passing on our experience.

Carry on men ! Have a safe day out there.