DEF in Ram

Passin Thru wrote:
I drove truck for 4 milion miles. What's a chassis cab? I know what a class 8 is and a cabover or conventional. I actually know what it is, a light truck. However you put it, DEF is just as nasty as diesel soot.
DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is a 32.5% solution of Urea (NH2)2CO. When the urea solution is injected into the hot exhaust gas stream the water evaporates. The urea thermally decomposes to form ammonia and isocyanic acid: It hen goes into a humans lungs and crystalizes and never leaves.GOODBYE ALL!

Bull. Isocyanic acid at room temperature is a liquid. At the temperature of the human body it's a gas. If any gets into your lungs, it is immediately exhed as it is not soluble in water. Look up the thermal decomposition I. The presence of NOx and you'll see what products are formed (mainly ammonia and sone larger complexes; very, very little cyanic acid in a properly operating system). Once you do, look up the safety data sheets for these products. Yes, some are toxic, but look at the health section, compare the concentrations produced by a vehicle (hard to find but easily calculated from DEF usage), consider the dilution in the atmosphere and how mch you could possibly inhale, and you'll see that the amount you could injest is so infitessimally small that it's almost not possible to calculate. I've been a chemist for nearly 40 years and I hate it when people promote totally incorrect information as scare facts. Please verify facts before distributing fertilizer.

I drove truck for 4 milion miles. What's a chassis cab? I know what a class 8 is and a cabover or conventional. I actually know what it is, a light truck. However you put it, DEF is just as nasty as diesel soot.
DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is a 32.5% solution of Urea (NH2)2CO. When the urea solution is injected into the hot exhaust gas stream the water evaporates. The urea thermally decomposes to form ammonia and isocyanic acid: It hen goes into a humans lungs and crystalizes and never leaves.GOODBYE ALL!

Housted wrote:

ACZL wrote:
.....The exhaust/air coming out of them IS cleaner than what's going into them.

This is very true. You could lick the inside of my tailpipe and not even get your tongue black!!! :p

No black stuff on the front of the fiver at all!! :B

Housted

This I have found to be very true. I now have about 5,800 miles on my 2015 RAM 3500, I've owned it for about two - two and a half months. The other day I thought I'd check to see if these DEF equipped engines are cleaner, dang I swiped my index finger INSIDE the tailpipe I couldn't believe it .... NO black on the finger!!!!! :E

Couldn't do that with the '06. :B

Dan

DPF with DEF is far better than a DPF without DEF. It reduces the need for a much EGR, and EGR's are the big issue not the DPF.

I am a Cummins fan, but they waited way too long to go with a DEF emissions setup. The 07.5-12's are reliable, but get lower mileage and are more prone to EGR related issues.

They are probably all gone now, but I wouldnt be non-DEF shopping for a new pickup.

I had a 2008 a non DEF Ram CTD and I had 24,000 trouble free miles but the fuel mileage was horrid. 3.73 gearing 12-13mpg highway/ 8-10mpg towing

Fast forward to today I have a 2014 DEF Ram CTD and I see much better fuel mileage. 3.42 gearing 18mpg highway or better 12-14 mpg towing. and it's not broken in yet.

I really like the DEF model much better. It sounds more normal and the turbo seems to be more free. The Non DEF model seemed like the timing was way retarded and just didn't sound right as you could rarely hear the turbo.

ACZL wrote:
.....The exhaust/air coming out of them IS cleaner than what's going into them.

This is very true. You could lick the inside of my tailpipe and not even get your tongue black!!! :p

No black stuff on the front of the fiver at all!! :B

Housted

With higher and higher mandated CAFE and emission standards this is just a fact of life. I think it is safe to say we will NOT see less complex or even the same complexity of vehicles anytime soon. The days of "I will wait and see how this technology plays out" before purchasing a new vehicle is probably a fools game at this point.

labren wrote:
Hi, are the complaints about DEF or UREA being used in the new diesels overblown? I see many of you ordering new diesels and they all have this Diesel Exhaust Fluid and it isn't stopping you. But on the other hand I see there are some that are keeping their previous years vehicle, just so they don't have to get one with this DEF or UREA. Is it as bad as it is being made out to be?
Thanks

When the system works right, they are great. When not, they are POS/PITA. Under warranty, no problem getting fixed. Once off, very expensive. Any new diesel has to have DEF no matter what brand....same goes with semis. One reason you are seeing higher HP numbers is to compensate for the added emissions. Will say this though about DEF engines. The exhaust/air coming out of them IS cleaner than what's going into them.

ib516 wrote:
I was one of those that was "against" DEF on a diesel. While I still don't like the complexity it adds, I do agree is does add mpg via fewer regens.

DEF allows far more efficient engine tunes, allowing more MPG's, it's just a different method of treating the NOX that doesn't require additional consumption of fuel, instead using a SCR treatment method for NOX.

The more efficient a diesel engine tune is, the more heat it generates. NOX is a by product of those higher heat levels, and a SCR NOC treatment system is just another way to skin the cat, and keep our air that we all breathe cleaner.

I like keeping the air I breathe clean in the clean air places I go RV'ing.

nevadanick wrote:
I think alot of you get this confused but DEF has nothing to do with the DPF. The DPF is a soot filter/trap and DEF is injected in exhaust to lower emmissions.

Diesel Exhaust Fluid is used to lower Nitrous Oxide emissions. There is no change in fuel consumption when it is in use.

Diesel Particulate Filter is located right where it is hot, right after the Turbocharger outlet. Diesel fuel is injected into it on the exhaust stroke, or on a separate injector, and is used to ignite the collected carbon soot. It is a lot like lighting charcoal briquettes, it takes a bit of heat to start the ignition, then once the ignition is started, the flames are fanned by additional air flow created by additional turbo boost being fed through the motor and out the exhaust.