Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Hannibal]

dub, it is obvious you are the one who's filled with emotion. I've owned four Cummins Rams. I know what they pull like. The post was about wear due to rpm. Not about your emotional outbursts of how much your truck can tow through the mountains or fuel mileage at unsafe speeds. What argument? It's obvious you drive like you post. So dangerously insecure that anyone even cares about your fragile ego that you would be speeding through traffic to make sure no one passes you and you pass everyone. Odd that when we're on the road, even with my previous four Cummins powered Rams, we've not passed or been passed by too many to count. We don't even see too many to count. The interstates aren't glutted with RV's, much less on the occasional grade. Even less gas powered pickups with 5th wheels or large TT's. Which leads me to the conclusion that your emotions are leading you to make up stories. And that's not a slam, just an observation.
Mileage at 75mph, I don't know. That's insane to think you've towed that fast for several tanks in traffic passing everyone in order to come to a mileage conclusion that I don't believe anyhow. It's no surprise no one has passed you. I'd slow down and let the maniac get far ahead too whether I was towing or not. Also not a slam, just a simple fact.:B

[Sport45]

It is not a slam, I am glad you are happy with your truck.

That sounded like a lot of slam'n to tell a fellow RV'r that you are glad he's happy with his truck. 🙂

[dubdub07]

Hannibal wrote:
Diesel only gas haters think 2k-3k rpm is low rpm? Might want to think that one again. Even 2k rpm is 33 revolutions per second. Can you peddle that fast? Count that fast? A gas engine typically running 30% higher rpm than a diesel under load isn't a make or break difference in rpm. When you factor in the weight of rotating and reciprocating mass in the Cummins at 2k rpm and the Hemi at 3k rpm, wear from rpm is negligible. Chrysler tested the Hemi during R&D under full load at 5400rpm for 300 hours. At tear down, it showed normal wear, nothing broke or melted. You can figure how many miles that is depending on gear ratios, road speed and tire sizes. Then figure how often any engine is run at "full load" such as pulling grades. Cummins ran the 5.9 hundreds of hours at it's peak hp rpm full load as well. Either engine will outlast the truck it's in. I'm watching the truck start to degrade around a perfectly good strong running engine with my rig. So you get the diesel option cost back at resale minus interest you paid on it. At least in theory at the bragging post you get it back. Come trade in time, I get the cost of my engine back as well!:B

So, my 6.7 will last longer than a 5.7 gasser, pull better and get better MPGs all at 30% of the RPMs? What's your arguement again? Sounds like you are thinking with your heart and not your head.

July 3 - 15, 3,781 miles through the Ozark mountains, Arkansas, La, Tx, NM and the Jemez Mtns. On to Chama, southern Colorado through Telluride, Ouray and Grand Junction. Up over Vail pass and on to Omaha. Total fuel used; 371 gallons. Avg MPG: 10.1. At or 5 over the speed limit. No hill was too great not to pull the posted speed limit. Number of gas powered motorhomes, TT or FWs that passed me? Zero. The number of gassers I passed was too numerous to count.

11,300# on the trailer, 19,300# gross.

This is experience, not conjecture. I have backed it up with hand calculated numbers. Even though you are 1500# or more lighter than my 5er I will still and always out perform you. It is not a slam, I am glad you are happy with your truck. It will not compete with its diesel counterpart, regardless of how hard you try. (Towing, not 1/4 mile races!!)

What MPGs would your truck get towing at 75mph? I know it isn't close to 10.1! I have towed with a 5.7 hemi, so I know!

I am not a gas hater, either. Just a realist. I loved my HEMI and would buy another one in a flash!!!!

[Madhatter1]

Before I bought my dually I looked hard to find a good used F650. The crew cabs were either well used stripped down landscape trucks (I would of done a conversion if I found a good one) or the oversized show trucks. The show trucks were way too big to haul a fifth wheel. A waste of a great truck since there is almost no used market for them. Something interesting I found out when looking at new ones was you could get a Cummins or a Cat but not a powerstroke.

[Hannibal]

We even have a few F-650 mall queens around here so the wealthy boys can feel manly too! The duallies with 22" conversion rims and stacks used to haul overweight ego's crack me up too. Then there are the simple guys who run around town with their tow mirrors out like goal posts so they can see around their biceps. I just don't get it... But I agree, there are a lot of potential barely used heavy duty pickups to be had once you get all the JC Whitney garb off of them. If you want one that hasn't been properly maintained.:B

[Ace_]

Absolutely. I live in Ford country and if someone wanted to buy a used truck around here they wouldn't have to worry much, most are mall queens with lifts and tires but hardly tow.

[Sport45]

dubdub07 wrote:
Not to be confrontational at ALL, but the main reason a Tundra, especially older less capable ones, can go forever is that they are used as toys mostly and not workers.

I believe that bit about being used as toys rather than workers is true for about 90% of the 1500, 2500, and maybe 3500 class pickups on the road today (foreign or domestic).

[Hannibal]

Other thing about rpm is, with most of our trucks by far, a gas powered truck and a diesel powered truck both with auto and 3.73 ratio rear end running empty will be running the same rpm for the same operation most of their lives.

[Hannibal]

Diesel only gas haters think 2k-3k rpm is low rpm? Might want to think that one again. Even 2k rpm is 33 revolutions per second. Can you peddle that fast? Count that fast? A gas engine typically running 30% higher rpm than a diesel under load isn't a make or break difference in rpm. When you factor in the weight of rotating and reciprocating mass in the Cummins at 2k rpm and the Hemi at 3k rpm, wear from rpm is negligible. Chrysler tested the Hemi during R&D under full load at 5400rpm for 300 hours. At tear down, it showed normal wear, nothing broke or melted. You can figure how many miles that is depending on gear ratios, road speed and tire sizes. Then figure how often any engine is run at "full load" such as pulling grades. Cummins ran the 5.9 hundreds of hours at it's peak hp rpm full load as well. Either engine will outlast the truck it's in. I'm watching the truck start to degrade around a perfectly good strong running engine with my rig. So you get the diesel option cost back at resale minus interest you paid on it. At least in theory at the bragging post you get it back. Come trade in time, I get the cost of my engine back as well!:B

[Tankerhank]

... semantics

[rrnelsonjr]

Tankerhank wrote:
... the ignition of a explosive fuel/air mixture. Unless you have a flux capacitor... then platinum.

May the swarts be with you.

And one of the results of the explosion is heat. The other is the rapid expansion of gasses resulting in the forcing down of the piston which, in essence, results in horsepower. Horsepower does not create heat.

I do agree with you that the heat is not caused solely by friction. If my engine created that much heat from friction alone it would weld itself together.

[Tankerhank]

Unless you have a flux capacitor...

[rrnelsonjr]

Tankerhank wrote:
Horse power is the biggest heat creator, not friction... more horse power = more heat.

I think you need to rethink this statement. On an internal combustion engine, if horsepower creates heat then what creates horsepower?

[Ace_]

I think there are other factors, other than RPM, that have an effect on engine life.

Seems oil change recommendations for gas engines used to be 3000 miles, now they are 5000 miles and some even longer. Seems gas engines last longer than they did and I don't know if that is true for diesels. If head gaskets fail before the engine wears out due to "friction" or "heat" wouldn't that need to be accounted for, or no? Seems people think 100k miles is a lot for a gasser, but based on what I see/read 300k is probably more likely (i.e., the Ford gassers), with just regular maintenance.

RPM isn't going to prematurely "kill" a gasser, there's more to it.

[Tankerhank]

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