Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[DSteiner51]

Contrary to what lots of folks think Ohio is not as flat as a sheet of plywood. Within 8 miles and between my house and favorite camping spot is 18%. I've been on roads with steeper hills in Ohio then any other state including the rocky mountains. They just aren't as long. I've been on steeper hills with my rig but didn't measure the slope so I use the 18% figure to be safe.

Back to Diesel v Gas my question still stands, if diesel is so much better then gas why do so many diesel owners chip their engines?

[mimalmo]

rhagfo wrote:


Just where do you find an 18% grade in Ohio?

I'm sure there are some. Many areas in the Midwest have steep grades. The difference between the Midwest and the mountains is that the steep Midwest grades are shorter in distance.

[rhagfo]

DSteiner51 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:


Dang you two, just accept that year for year a Diesel will out tow a gasser!

I would put each of the big threes, diesels up against their gas engines, no match!

I pull a 11K fiver up 7% grades, and can accelerate to the 55 mph speed limit while doing so, only addition to my 01, is a simple Power Puck 50 hp and about 150 ft. lb. of torque, running 3.55 gears.

If it was gas with those gears it would be doing 35 mph at the top of the hill! I hate to think what it would do with 4.10's!!!

I've run both gas and diesel and both do the job. My question is... if diesel is so much better then gas why do so many diesel owners chip their engines? Even yours must have been lacking that you had to chip it. Sure don't see it as much on the gas side.

7% slopes? Why not a real hill? With my gas engine a 7% is nothing. I do 18 % and there are some who tow hills even steeper and we haven't chipped our engines an extra xxhp and xxx torque.

Just where do you find an 18% grade in Ohio?

[ClusterOfAtoms]

I have a 2008 Toyota Tundra and a 2012 Dodge 3500. I tow a 27ft toy hauler that weighs 11.5k and tow 470 miles round trip from Scottsdale to Glamis CA 2-3 weekends a month in the winter.

I tow 75-77mph and get 6mpg with my Tundra and at the same speed with my Cummins I get 9mpg. But the Dodge is still new, so that will probably go up a little in the next 5k miles or so. Anyway, thats my .02. I have 3.73's in my Dodge and 4.3's in my Tundra

[DSteiner51]

rhagfo wrote:


Dang you two, just accept that year for year a Diesel will out tow a gasser!

I would put each of the big threes, diesels up against their gas engines, no match!

I pull a 11K fiver up 7% grades, and can accelerate to the 55 mph speed limit while doing so, only addition to my 01, is a simple Power Puck 50 hp and about 150 ft. lb. of torque, running 3.55 gears.

If it was gas with those gears it would be doing 35 mph at the top of the hill! I hate to think what it would do with 4.10's!!!

I've run both gas and diesel and both do the job. My question is... if diesel is so much better then gas why do so many diesel owners chip their engines? Even yours must have been lacking that you had to chip it. Sure don't see it as much on the gas side.

7% slopes? Why not a real hill? With my gas engine a 7% is nothing. I do 18 % and there are some who tow hills even steeper and we haven't chipped our engines an extra xxhp and xxx torque.

[45Ricochet]

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Can't we just all get along and agree that the 7.3 was one of the best diesel ever made (not the tranny that went with it).

Corrected that for you :B

[bkirkpatrick]

Can't we just all get along and agree that the 7.3 was the best diesel ever made (not the tranny that went with it).

[brholt]

rhagfo wrote:

davisenvy wrote:

spud57 wrote:

64thunderbolt wrote:
I will still extend my invitation for anyone with a gasser & similar wgt trailer to come tow with me in the mtns in Az. When finished we can compare towing speed/rpm and fuel milage. The gasser will fail in all catagories.

For it to be fair it has to be stock vs. stock. My stock 6.8 gasser 362hp/457tq and your stock 7.3 diesel 235hp/500tq. Yep, you'll burn a bit less fuel but I'd be curious who'd be at the top first. RPM comparing is irrelevant. Let both engines do what they were designed to do without all the "aftermarket" add-ons.

I'm not suggesting that I would beat the 7.3 stock because I don't know. 🙂

"For it to be fair" compare apples to apples. Your truck is 9 years newer. Compare the 1999 Triton V10 with 275hp/410tq vs. the Powerstroke 235hp/500tq. Or in 2008 V10 362/457 vs the diesel 350/650. Either way, you lose the race....stock vs. stock.

With your argument I should be challenging a 1998 V10 275/410 vs my Duramax LBZ 350/650. So to prove your point you should be running against jevanb.....or me if you like. A run without "add ons" and one with. You can bring your add ons too.;)

Dang you two, just accept that year for year a Diesel will out tow a gasser!

I would put each of the big threes, diesels up against their gas engines, no match!

Well, pickuptruck.com did that in their 2010 shootout. On the 16% hill climb pulling a 10,000 lb trailer the times to the top were:

25.6 Chevy diesel (32 mph @ top)
26.74 Ford diesel (@ 31.1 mph)

30.75 Ford gas (@29.5 mph)
30.95 Ram Diesel (@24.2 mph)

35.6 Chevy Gas (@24.9 mph)
36.4 Ram Gas (@22.1 mph)

So one gas beat a diesel up the hill and two gas engines were going faster then one of the diesels. Off course it is going to depend on axel ratio's etc. but modern gas engines can be pretty competent.

[rhagfo]

Sport45 wrote:

If it was gas with those gears it would be doing 35 mph at the top of the hill! I hate to think what it would do with 4.10's!!!

You're right, 3.55's will kill the gas engine. It would do better with 4.10's and better still with 4.30's.

Why do you hate to think what it would do with better gearing?

The engine with higher horsepower will always win the race to the top of the hill. But you have to let it run at the rpm where it develops that horsepower.

I was referring to 4.10's in my Cummins! It would really eat hills!

[Sport45]

If it was gas with those gears it would be doing 35 mph at the top of the hill! I hate to think what it would do with 4.10's!!!

You're right, 3.55's will kill the gas engine. It would do better with 4.10's and better still with 4.30's.

Why do you hate to think what it would do with better gearing?

The engine with higher horsepower will always win the race to the top of the hill. But you have to let it run at the rpm where it develops that horsepower.

[rhagfo]

davisenvy wrote:

spud57 wrote:

64thunderbolt wrote:
I will still extend my invitation for anyone with a gasser & similar wgt trailer to come tow with me in the mtns in Az. When finished we can compare towing speed/rpm and fuel milage. The gasser will fail in all catagories.

For it to be fair it has to be stock vs. stock. My stock 6.8 gasser 362hp/457tq and your stock 7.3 diesel 235hp/500tq. Yep, you'll burn a bit less fuel but I'd be curious who'd be at the top first. RPM comparing is irrelevant. Let both engines do what they were designed to do without all the "aftermarket" add-ons.

I'm not suggesting that I would beat the 7.3 stock because I don't know. 🙂

"For it to be fair" compare apples to apples. Your truck is 9 years newer. Compare the 1999 Triton V10 with 275hp/410tq vs. the Powerstroke 235hp/500tq. Or in 2008 V10 362/457 vs the diesel 350/650. Either way, you lose the race....stock vs. stock.

With your argument I should be challenging a 1998 V10 275/410 vs my Duramax LBZ 350/650. So to prove your point you should be running against jevanb.....or me if you like. A run without "add ons" and one with. You can bring your add ons too.;)

Dang you two, just accept that year for year a Diesel will out tow a gasser!

I would put each of the big threes, diesels up against their gas engines, no match!

I pull a 11K fiver up 7% grades, and can accelerate to the 55 mph speed limit while doing so, only addition to my 01, is a simple Power Puck 50 hp and about 150 ft. lb. of torque, running 3.55 gears.

If it was gas with those gears it would be doing 35 mph at the top of the hill! I hate to think what it would do with 4.10's!!!

[davisenvy]

spud57 wrote:

64thunderbolt wrote:
I will still extend my invitation for anyone with a gasser & similar wgt trailer to come tow with me in the mtns in Az. When finished we can compare towing speed/rpm and fuel milage. The gasser will fail in all catagories.

For it to be fair it has to be stock vs. stock. My stock 6.8 gasser 362hp/457tq and your stock 7.3 diesel 235hp/500tq. Yep, you'll burn a bit less fuel but I'd be curious who'd be at the top first. RPM comparing is irrelevant. Let both engines do what they were designed to do without all the "aftermarket" add-ons.

I'm not suggesting that I would beat the 7.3 stock because I don't know. 🙂

"For it to be fair" compare apples to apples. Your truck is 9 years newer. Compare the 1999 Triton V10 with 275hp/410tq vs. the Powerstroke 235hp/500tq. Or in 2008 V10 362/457 vs the diesel 350/650. Either way, you lose the race....stock vs. stock.

With your argument I should be challenging a 1998 V10 275/410 vs my Duramax LBZ 350/650. So to prove your point you should be running against jevanb.....or me if you like. A run without "add ons" and one with. You can bring your add ons too.;)

[64thunderbolt]

spud57 wrote:

jevanb wrote:

spud57 wrote:

64thunderbolt wrote:
I will still extend my invitation for anyone with a gasser & similar wgt trailer to come tow with me in the mtns in Az. When finished we can compare towing speed/rpm and fuel milage. The gasser will fail in all catagories.

For it to be fair it has to be stock vs. stock. My stock 6.8 gasser 362hp/457tq and your stock 7.3 diesel 235hp/500tq. Yep, you'll burn a bit less fuel but I'd be curious who'd be at the top first. RPM comparing is irrelevant. Let both engines do what they were designed to do without all the "aftermarket" add-ons.

I'm not suggesting that I would beat the 7.3 stock because I don't know. 🙂

I can go to stock tune and I have 360/650 bet i can get their faster

:h Agree but as you can see, my response was to the challenge from 64thunderbolt with a '99 7.3.

I'll leave it stock.

[Bruce_H_]

I'm thinking about upgrading my tow vehicle from a 2006 Honda Pilot to something more robust, such as the forthcoming Grand Cherokee diesel or the Explorer Sport V-6 Ecoboost. I don't like real high rpm's--I always worry that the engine will have a catastrophic failure. I ran the HP formula to see what HP each of these SUV's would have at peak torque rpm, which seems to me to be a sustainable rpm without harming an engine:

2006 Honda Pilot: 240T@4500, HP = 206
Grand Cherokee Diesel (Australia): 406T@2800, HP = 216
Explorer Sport Ecoboost: 350T@3500, HP = 233

At these sustainable rpm's, the Ecoboost is the HP winner! I am having to rethink my goal of getting the GC diesel.

Bruce H.

[spud57]

jevanb wrote:

spud57 wrote:

64thunderbolt wrote:
I will still extend my invitation for anyone with a gasser & similar wgt trailer to come tow with me in the mtns in Az. When finished we can compare towing speed/rpm and fuel milage. The gasser will fail in all catagories.

For it to be fair it has to be stock vs. stock. My stock 6.8 gasser 362hp/457tq and your stock 7.3 diesel 235hp/500tq. Yep, you'll burn a bit less fuel but I'd be curious who'd be at the top first. RPM comparing is irrelevant. Let both engines do what they were designed to do without all the "aftermarket" add-ons.

I'm not suggesting that I would beat the 7.3 stock because I don't know. 🙂

I can go to stock tune and I have 360/650 bet i can get their faster

:h Agree but as you can see, my response was to the challenge from 64thunderbolt with a '99 7.3.